LCD Woes

LunarMist

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#1
I received the super fancy new 24" display today, but the color is terrible and it is stretched in the width. When I try to use the 1200x1920 setting the display blacks out and then returns to 1200x1600. I read that the single-linked cable should work and there is a similar one included in the box. The same problem occurs with the two different installs (32 and 64 bits). The video card should be OK, but maybe it is faltering?
 

time

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#2
Possible refresh rate issue? Are you running at 50 or 60Hz?

There's a setting in the ATI Catalyst Control Center to reduce refresh rate with higher resolutions, specifically 1920x1200 - but I don't know if that's relevant.

Did you try the other DVI port? I imagine you have two.

Is Windows identifying the monitor correctly?
 

LunarMist

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#3
Windows sees the monitor as a generic P&P. I tried every possible DVI cable on both inputs and removed the KVM switch. There is no DisplayPort on the video card to test. The best I can get at 1200x1920 is a picture that has random thin, black horizontal lines. It still blacks out occasionally for a couple of seconds.

The signal info displayed on the monitor seems normal.

fD: 154.0 MHz
fH: 74.0 kHz
fV: 59.9 Hz

I'm out of ideas other than to replace the video card next. :rant:
 

time

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#4
I take it you don't have an AMD/ATI card? From Catalyst Help:
  • Reducing DVI frequency on high-resolution displays can resolve either display corruption or the complete absence of any image when a display is set to a high resolution. This should only be enabled if the Digital Panel is experiencing these types of problems.
  • Alternate DVI operational mode, when enabled, may eliminate display corruption.
There's a far more detailed explanation here, including tinkering with nVidia settings. The stats from your monitor confirm you're already using reduced blanking, so I wonder if they lied when they told you your monitor doesn't need dual-link? (Pure speculation on my part - I don't even know if that's the problem.)

A related resource is DVI Troubleshooting. Unfortunately, I'm not sure that the sample screenshots reflect the problems you're seeing. Well worth reading though.
 

BingBangBop

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#5
See if you can find a monitor.inf file for that specific monitor rather than using the generic P&P.

I can tell you that you can definately use a single-linked DVI cable for a 1920x1200 (horizontal form factor) or 1200x1920 (Vertical form factor) in that I'm currently running a 1920x1200x60 on a single-linked DVI cable on a Dell 2407WFP. You should also be able to use a standard VGA plug with or with a DVI converter.
 

LunarMist

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#7
Thanks, but I need to try everything else first. The video is a Sapphos X1600 which is around four years old. I have two other cards here that I bought about a year ago for the 30" LCD disaster, an Asus EAH4350 (fanless, single width) and an MSI R3650. I don't have any discs at the moment, but assume the drivers are out there somewhere. Is there any reason either of the cards would not work?
 

LunarMist

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#8
See if you can find a monitor.inf file for that specific monitor rather than using the generic P&P.

I can tell you that you can definately use a single-linked DVI cable for a 1920x1200 (horizontal form factor) or 1200x1920 (Vertical form factor) in that I'm currently running a 1920x1200x60 on a single-linked DVI cable on a Dell 2407WFP. You should also be able to use a standard VGA plug with or with a DVI converter.
It is probably on the software disc supplied with the monitor. I was hoping to avoid installing a mass of junk, but will try that too.
 

BingBangBop

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#9
It is probably on the software disc supplied with the monitor. I was hoping to avoid installing a mass of junk, but will try that too.
You shouldn't need to install a lot of junk if you can find the inf file. You should just be able to install the Windows monitor driver directly from it.
 

LunarMist

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#10
The correct monitor INF does nothing. My olden computer is working with the monitor to some degree, so it must be a video card problem. I'm confused about which drivers to use. What is the relationship between NVideo, ATI, Radeon and AMD? I recall there are only two major companies left. Or should I really search for the old CDs?
 

sdbardwick

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#11
ATI=Radeon (series of vid cards)=AMD
AMD recently dropped the ATI name, so now all video cards are AMD branded.

NVidia remains NVidia.

I'd try the latest (legacy now) drivers from www.amd.com (selectable from top right of main screen).
 
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LunarMist

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#12
The new(er) MSI video card resolved the 1920x1200 black lines and it works with the Egyptian. However, the software is not working in the x64 installation. It crashes and then the sensor is just stuck in the display. :(
 

time

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#14
I assume you've tried uninstalling, rebooting back to VGA level, then reinstalling?

I assume it works under your 32-bit version? This is pretty basic, I'd have to conclude that your 64-bit install is problematic.
 

LunarMist

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#15
It does not work on either the 32-bit OS or 64-bit OS. I tried both the version on the disc (March 2010) and the latest version on the website. In any case it hangs forever after entering the target color space and pressing Proceed. Both the computer and monitor must powered off to restart. :rant:
 

Chewy509

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#16
LM, Have you tried connecting the monitor with a VGA cable, and not a DVI cable?

Some manufacturers went cheap with the DVI setups and only included a single TDMS, and not dual TDMS for high-res DVI. (A single TDMS can only handle 1600x1200, hence you need two for any res higher). Some manufacturers also used a single TDMS per DVI link, requiring dual-link DVI cables for res's higher than 1600x1200, even though a single-link DVI is capable of handling the resolution. Note, this is a separate issue from single-link/dual-link DVI cables requirement.

Most GeForceFX and some cheaper GeForce 6000 series suffer from this, but as for the AMD/ATI side of things, I haven't done too much reading up on this sort of issue.

PS. AMD/ATI Drivers are here: http://support.amd.com/us/gpudownload/Pages/index.aspx
 

LunarMist

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#17
Thanks, but I gave up on that X1600 [-pro card and now have three video cards that work just fine. 8) I got more than my money's worth out of it over the past ~four years. It was the oldest part of my computer other than the case and a Firewire card.
 

time

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#19
According to Lunar, both the "Sapphos" X1600 and the MSI 3650 didn't work properly. Presumably, the Asus 4350 did, as did his new HIS 5450. What's the third card that works just fine? :-?
 

Stereodude

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#20
According to Lunar, both the "Sapphos" X1600 and the MSI 3650 didn't work properly. Presumably, the Asus 4350 did, as did his new HIS 5450. What's the third card that works just fine? :-?
I was referring to the monitor, not the video cards, but more detail there would be good too.
 

LunarMist

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#21
Only the Sapphos X1600 doesn't work reliably at 1920x1200, though the 4350 did not work right until after I had installed the drivers for the 5450 and then switched the cards. I guess the drivers are similar. :rabbit: The 5450 is remarkably cool for having such a small heat sink. The 4350 was quite wamr although full height and much heavier.
 

LunarMist

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#22
Only the Sapphos X1600 doesn't work reliably at 1920x1200, though the 4350 did not work right until after I had installed the drivers for the 5450 and then switched the cards. I guess the drivers are similar. :rabbit: The 5450 is remarkably cool for having such a small heat sink. The 4350 was quite warmer although full height and much heavier.
 

LunarMist

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#30
I assumed that everyone knew about Sappho. :dunno:
Nobody else had 10 semesters of history as an undergard?
 

Stereodude

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#32
Be thankful your monitor isn't like the Dell 1908FP I have a work. It's a complete piece of crap. The color is so inconsistent from corner to corner. Sitting an arm's length away the colors shift quite noticeably over the small angle variation edge to edge and top to bottom. I don't think I've ever seen an LCD panel that bad before.
 

Handruin

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#33
I'm still using the same NEC 19" CRT that I got when I started almost 10 years ago. I originally had two of them, but one of them died and it was replaced with a Dell 19" CRT. I just got recently got a 17" Dell LCD about a month ago and it's colors and grays are so bad that when I drag excel over to that monitor, I cannot see the thin gray lines that separate the individual cells.

We also recently moved to a different building and to show how out of date we are with monitors, the new cubes are too shallow in depth that I can barely fit a CRT on it in the corner and still have my keyboard fit on the desk. If I don't use the corner, the edge of the monitor hangs over the desk. The new desks assumed users would have LCDs, but for a multi-billion dollar company, asking for a cheap $150 LCD is too much to ask.
 

CougTek

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#34
Then just let it hang over the edge and wait for it to fall. Then they'll have to buy you an LCD because no one sells CRT anymore.

BTW, always looking on the side for your monitor can cause neck and back problems. It's a lot better to have it in front of you. Medical treatments for back problems are a lot more expensive than a 150$ LCD.
 

Handruin

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#35
Then just let it hang over the edge and wait for it to fall. Then they'll have to buy you an LCD because no one sells CRT anymore.

BTW, always looking on the side for your monitor can cause neck and back problems. It's a lot better to have it in front of you. Medical treatments for back problems are a lot more expensive than a 150$ LCD.
I thought that might have been a good idea when my last CRT failed, but since we're such a big company, there is a storage room full of old CRTs to replace the ones that have failed. In a lot of cases we still give out those huge 21" Sun monitors with terrible refresh rates.

I mainly look forward at my monitor and my second monitor is slightly off to the left. I've debated just buying my own cheap 21-24" LCD even if it's not the best quality.
 

timwhit

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#36
Tell your manager that the CRT is giving you massive eyestrain and it's affecting your ability to be productive. If this doesn't work go to an ophthalmologist and get a note written saying that your current monitor is causing you medical problems.
 

LunarMist

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#37
I tried to use the new Eizo with my work notebook and it looks awful on a VGA connector. :bigeek: At work I have an olden 19" LCD with bleh colors, but it has the nice squarish display ratio and the image is sharp.
 

Bozo

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#38
I thought that might have been a good idea when my last CRT failed, but since we're such a big company, there is a storage room full of old CRTs to replace the ones that have failed. In a lot of cases we still give out those huge 21" Sun monitors with terrible refresh rates.

I mainly look forward at my monitor and my second monitor is slightly off to the left. I've debated just buying my own cheap 21-24" LCD even if it's not the best quality.
You could try pointing out the energy savings that the company would get if they used LCDs. Also, the reduced A/C load from the reduced heat from a LCD. Put all this on an Excel spread sheet as that seems to be the only thing managers look at these days. :frusty:
 

LunarMist

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#39
I completely gave up on the software. :dunno: However, the hardware calibration works fine and the results are nearly perfect. Delta E over the entire display is the best I've seen on an LCD and a 16" B/W gradient in PS is perfectly smooth and neutral. :) I did tweak the y values for the particular target color space to match my weird eyes, but that is the same with every monitor. The adjustment options are mind boggling, with x, y settings to the fourth decimal place, not just for the CIELab white point, but to control the gamut via the three primary colors as well. You can see why such monitors are used in a production environment where each one must be calibrated the same and remain stable over time. The automatic calibrator is nice; it is set for a weekly schedule and completes the cycle in a couple of minutes.

The only complaint I have on the image is that the corners have some white bleed visible at close viewing distances off axis. It is not an issue in normal use, but shows up when booting (mostly black screen) and in a dark room.
 
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