Lithium Ion Battery Shortage?

[Mercutio]

I just got done with an interesting call from a Dell CSR.
I ordered 10 Latitude 630s about 10 days ago for a customer (sob, the result of an argument I did not win).

Normally Dell ships and products arrive about four days after I place the order. This batch didn't, and I didn't even get a shipping confirm, so I called to find out what's up with my order.

The CSR told me that Dell is having an exceptionally hard time getting batteries from its suppliers, and that my notebooks probably would not ship for six weeks or more.

I'm seeing longer than usual delays from Lenovo as well; usually I can get a Lenovo notebook from China in ~10 days, but my last few orders have been longer than two weeks, and more interesting, the spare batteries that normally ship with the units haven't shipped at all yet.

I don't know if this is an Industry-wide issue or if there's something going on with Dell exclusively, but I was shocked by that explanation.

 

[Stereodude]

Isn't this somewhat old news?

There was a fire at a LG Chem plant some time back. Then this has been going on.

 

[ddrueding]

I hadn't heard about it, but I've been ordering from Newegg or Amazon...so I'm further down the inventory chain...

 

[time]

Then this has been going on.

They're going to use banks of lithium-ion batteries in production cars?

Wow, that's a lot of large bombs rolling around the streets ...

 

[Stereodude]

They're going to use banks of lithium-ion batteries in production cars?

Wow, that's a lot of large bombs rolling around the streets ...

Tesla is, and probably all of the major car companies are planning to also. The current crop of Hybrids don't, but they will soon enough. They are perfectly safe if you take proper care of them. From what I've seen the car companies are planning to monitor each cell individually (just like a laptop pack). They are also being extra cautious in the design. It will only take a few cars going boom and no one will buy 'em, so they seem to be proceeding with caution to prevent that from happening.

 

[Fushigi]

Merc, the D630s are fine laptops. We buy thousands of them every year.

As to Lithium Ion batteries with an automotive application, this is undergoing extensive testing. There are formula revisions and all kinds of things happening to make sure that a bank of batteries is at least as safe as a tank of gas. Clocker can probably chime in on what's going done with the Chevy Volt's battery system.

 

[Mercutio]

Merc, the D630s are fine laptops. We buy thousands of them every year.

The cost as configured on them is higher than the Thinkpads I would've bought, and the manufacturer service isn't anywhere near as good. They aren't as rugged, either. A couple years ago, I would've at least had the bright spot that they all shipped with 3-year service plans by default but now they don't even do that. And Dell charges extra-extra for Accidental damage protection.

And why did my customer buy them? Because he thinks he's buying an American product.

:frusty:

A few weeks ago a client's hard drive died in a Latitude (same place with the 630s, actually). He called it in, they told him he could just pop two screws out and put the new one in and it would work. Except, they shipped him a blank drive. No OS. Not exactly a "it would work" situation. *I* call it in. They overnight another drive. Also blank. And it was a 80GB SATA 5400rpm model instead of a 120GB 7200rpm EIDE one. I put in the first drive they shipped and had to rebuild the Windows install myself.


You work in an all Dell environment, but I move around and see different products. Whatever Dell is specifying, buying, Q/A-ing, servicing, it's been going downhill for the last few years at least.

I'm not saying a Latitude D630 is a BAD notebook. They're not. I'm just frustrated at the far more positive qualities that are often attributed to the brand vs. the reality of what I have to put up with.

 

[Clocker]

Would love to but that is top secret. 40 miles for less than $1.

 

[Mercutio]

Would love to but that is top secret. 40 miles for less than $1.

... if the electrical grid can handle it.

 

[ddrueding]

... if the electrical grid can handle it.

I suspect it can handle 40 miles...for the rest I'll have my solar panels ready to go

 

[udaman]

I suspect it can handle 40 miles...for the rest I'll have my solar panels ready to go

Nope dd, solar panels are not efficient enough in low enough cost to make them practical as a power source for autos. Might work for stationary charging when the car is not being driven, but other than that, not ready for prime time.

Can't help Merc with the supposition about Li-Ion shortages, other than noted LG fire, but most 18650 cells being used in laptops are being made in China AFAIK, except maybe some being recalled by Sony (Merc's fav target to diss on).

As to source of power in autos, that I did a quick search on. Steredude's link was not useful as current hybrids from major manufacturers on sale now and in near term are using NiMH. Safety concerns are why Toyota decided not to use Li-Ion made by Panasonic, not until 2011 when they introduce a plug-in hybrids.

The Chevy Volt scheduled for 2010 model, uses American A123System nanocarbon cell tech Lithium cells (supposedly safer), same cells as used in some cordless power tools/drills...there are millions of these cells in use right now. IIRC, the Tesla uses these also, except unlike the Volt, it's already available...sorry Clocker

http://www.hybridcarnews.org/entry/a-sneak-peek-on-the-new-chevorlet-volt/

The Chevrolet Volt project was started in 2006 by Robert Lutz, Vice Chairman of Product Development and Chairman of GM North America when he learned about the Tesla Roadster

Linky:

http://www.hybridcarnews.org/entry/toyotas-plans-for-lithium-ion-powered-hybrids-suffer-a-setback/


Toyota to add solar panels to some Prius hybrids

http://www.reuters.com/article/technologyNews/idUST29871820080707


A123Systems, inc blog:
http://www.instablogs.com/a123system-inc/



Clocker already knows all this, and so do all the hybrid fans; he's just taking advantage of the ignorance of the average SF reader...now he's been outed by me .

GM Teams With Dozens
Of Utilities on Plug-In Cars

http://online.wsj.com/public/article_print/SB121669299205472651.html

 

[Clocker]

Taking advantage.....how?

I doubt there will be issues with the electrical grid. First, 90% will recharge at night. Second, it's not like there will be 2-million Volts on the road overnight. Obviously, it is being worked on. It really doesn't take that much juice to charge it.

The Prius solar panel is a gimmick providing little useful power. So tiny it isn't worth it and definitely doesn't extend vehicle range by any significant amount. Even the supplier says it's a 'symbolic gesture'. But I'm sure Toyota is banking on that fact that the same idiot who thinks the Prius is actually good for the environment will cream in their pants for the option. Because of that, Volt will probably have to get a solar panel too.

Uda-
Looks like you believe everything you read on somewhat random websites. That's good. I know Lutz is putting enough misinformation out there to keep everybody outside the project confused, including the competition.

 

[Fushigi]

Re: EVs and the power grid. The ideal time to charge is off-peak/overnight. Rates are lower & generation plants are running at far less than peak capacity. If people charge up overnight there's no capacity issue. If people charge during the day there could be issues, but even those should be minor if the car does an 8 hour charge v. a quick-charge.

Re: Solar. Toyota is doing a fashion statement by offering solar panels on the roof of an upcoming Prius. It does little for the car, generating at most 200W based on current solar tech and in optimal conditions - sun directly overhead, etc. EVs take 8+KW. You may get at best another 3 to 6 miles of EV range but current solar tech, and probably for the next few generations, would never be enugh to fully charge the car or offer sustained travel.

Re: Dell v. Thinkpad. As part of our due diligence we trialed a few Thinkpads early this year. Couldn't stand the constant updates from Lenovo and the hardware had some issues. I wasn't part of the trial but heard a little about it.

 

[Stereodude]

Would love to but that is top secret. 40 miles for less than $1.

Oh yes, everything about GM's EFLEX program is top secret. Like the codename even.

 

[Stereodude]

The Chevy Volt scheduled for 2010 model, uses American A123System nanocarbon cell tech Lithium cells (supposedly safer), same cells as used in some cordless power tools/drills...there are millions of these cells in use right now. IIRC, the Tesla uses these also, except unlike the Volt, it's already available...sorry Clocker

I'm pretty sure Tesla does not use A123 cells.

The A123 cells are very safe, but they're power density isn't any better NiMH, so I don't really see what there is to get excited about.