Need an Amp

[LunarMist]

My audio system for the larger TV died unceremoniously last night. We did have several unusual power failures yesterday, but the whole system is on a UPS. I'm not happy that the audio system was less than a year old, but it is not worth shipping for repair and I probably don't have the receipt anyway. Are there any decent, small 2-channel analog amps that have a remote control? Most of the amps I find are bulky and in the wide form factor than does not fit my space. The more chunky type are the mini-shelf systems like the crapper I had.

 

[Stereodude]

FWIW, UPS's aren't very good surge protectors.

 

[Howell]

Well that's disappointing. Please explain. Is the surge circuit not as good because of some design limitation or to keep costs down?

 

[Stereodude]

Well, that's primarily not what they're designed to do. They have relatively low joule ratings for maximum surge absorption. There are also extensive arguments about the effectiveness of MOV based surge protection schemes.

 

[Howell]

Hmm I need to look more closely at the joule ratings then. What is MOV?

 

[Handruin]

How about an Emotiva UPA-2 (125 watts RMS x 2 into 8 ohms, 185 watts RMS x 2 into 4 ohms)? It doesn't have an IR remote, but it has a trigger to turn on and off.

 

[Stereodude]

Metal Oxide Varistor

 

[ddrueding]

The remote is the tricky bit...otherwise just get one of these.

 

[LunarMist]

I temporarily took the mini system from the workroom and connected it to the big TV and the sound is worse than before. That one has presets, but no bass/treble or adjustable EQ.

If I could balance the amp on its side and prevent it from falling with a speaker on top, maybe I can get the the traditional form factor. What about a low grade Yamaha like the RX-V371? It has a bunch of connections and a remote that I hope is compatible with a multifunction.

 

[fb]

I would get an amplifier with 2 channels, unless you really, really need more channels.

Maybe something like the Yamaha R-S300 or Onkyo TX 8255?

 

[LunarMist]

Thanks, but those look to have wider front panel than the rest of the enclosure and would not balance on the side.

 

[mubs]

Well, that's primarily not what they're designed to do. They have relatively low joule ratings for maximum surge absorption. There are also extensive arguments about the effectiveness of MOV based surge protection schemes.

So are you suggesting a heavy duty surge arrestor between the UPS and the wall socket?

 

[Stereodude]

So are you suggesting a heavy duty surge arrestor between the UPS and the wall socket?

Yes, if you're paranoid it's not a bad idea. I have a series mode surge protector between my servers' UPS and the wall socket.

 

[LunarMist]

I don't think the audio system died from the power glitches.

 

[Handruin]

I don't think the audio system died from the power glitches.

Was it from the popcorn?

 

[LunarMist]

No, that was not in the same area. I do have 4 UPS units plugged in, but only one in use.

 

[LunarMist]

I received the Yamaha. The damned thing is crazy complicated and they don't even provide a manual, only a CD. I can barely accept a CD only for computer-related products, but it is total BS for other products. What if the user doesn't have a computer, or the computer is on a different floor of the home? Am I supposed to print reams of paper (if the PDF even allows that) or go running back and forth between rooms like a goat? :tdown:

 

[Handruin]

That is frustrating. It's a way for them to cut some cost from having it printed. I like having the manual in front of me while I'm learning how to use the receiver.

 

[LunarMist]

Yes, if you're paranoid it's not a bad idea. I have a series mode surge protector between my servers' UPS and the wall socket.

Is this device worth a damn?

 

[LunarMist]

The receiver is sucking over 30W when the TV is off. Has anyone successfully used the green/power saving surge-protector strips? Several secondary devices are supposedly controlled by the current draw from the master device.

 

[time]

"Is this device worth a damn?"

Yes, surprisingly. It has a 5270 Joule surge rating. If you had really expensive equipment attached, it might be worth it to those who are risk-averse.

I don't know why you'd need the power conditioning part though?

 

[time]

The receiver is sucking over 30W when the TV is off. Has anyone successfully used the green/power saving surge-protector strips? Several secondary devices are supposedly controlled by the current draw from the master device.

I have one here and it's a PITA. Unpredictable operation. But you should have a fighting chance if the TV is the master, assuming <1W standby vs >100W operating.

 

[LunarMist]

The TV draws roughly 130-150W depening on the brightness of the scene. I have no idea if it is less than 1W with the power off.

 

[LunarMist]

"Is this device worth a damn?"

Yes, surprisingly. It has a 5270 Joule surge rating. If you had really expensive equipment attached, it might be worth it to those who are risk-averse.

I don't know why you'd need the power conditioning part though?

I don't know. Were you suggesting only a surge protector with a better design and higher rating? I'd not waste a fancy one on the TV setup in the living room.

 

[Howell]

Yes, if you're paranoid it's not a bad idea. I have a series mode surge protector between my servers' UPS and the wall socket.

I did some reading on the series mode surge supressors. Thanks, SD.

Once of the limitations of MOV based devices is that every surge uses it up a little bit. Large surges more than small ones. In practice on good quality devices an MOV going bad is protected by a fuse and triggers a light on the device to notify the user.

The series mode surge supressors will smooth out the power so that the MOV is not impacted as much and has a longer life span. The series mode surge supressors is NOT designed in and of itself to PROTECT against over-voltages outside its rating.

So, the series mode surge supressor can extend the life of a surge protector or UPS but is insufficient by itself.

 

[Stereodude]

Well, the claim of most series mode protectors is that their rating is the maximum that your household wiring can carry meaning it can't see something above and beyond it's rating. Is that true? Who knows...

 

[LunarMist]

I picked up the power saving surge protector with 8 outlets and plugged it into the UPS. I suppose it should be the other way, but the UPS output is OK. The green switching function works just fine with the TV controlling the amp, audio processor, and Blue Ray player. The amp has ~3 relays and the surge protector one, so there is a lot of clicking going on. However, the audio is ready about the same time the TV engages.

 

[LunarMist]

This small amp looks interesting for the TV sound by the computers.

 

[CougTek]

THD not specified : looks suspicious. Usually, when it's good, they yell it loud enough to make you deaf. Unspecified usually means uninspiring, poor or abysmal.

 

[time]

Yep. From the user manual:

Output Power, 2 channels driven
4-Ohm, 1 kHz, 1% THD .............................................. 20Wx2
4-Ohm, 1 kHz, 10% THD ............................................ 32Wx2
Max Power ............................................................. 120Wx2
Total Harmonic Distortion, 1 kHz Rated Power ................ 0.3%

To me, the numbers don't reconcile. Rather than at rated power, I'd guess the 0.3% is at 1W. Can anyone (eg Stereodude) cast some light?

 

[LunarMist]

:tdown: Junk.

 

[ddrueding]

The one I linked above:

115 dB signal-to-noise ratio, total harmonic distortion of only 0.05 % and a frequency response of 1 Hz to 75 kHz.

 

[mubs]

This small amp looks interesting for the TV sound by the computers.

Pyle was a mfr of PA systems. I would not expect their amps to have the fidelity that would be expected of an audio system. I don't know if they have now diversified into the consumer audio business as well.

 

[Stereodude]

Yep. From the user manual:

Output Power, 2 channels driven
4-Ohm, 1 kHz, 1% THD .............................................. 20Wx2
4-Ohm, 1 kHz, 10% THD ............................................ 32Wx2
Max Power ............................................................. 120Wx2
Total Harmonic Distortion, 1 kHz Rated Power ................ 0.3%

To me, the numbers don't reconcile. Rather than at rated power, I'd guess the 0.3% is at 1W. Can anyone (eg Stereodude) cast some light?

I've never seen an amp rated like that. I can only imagine it means that rated power is less than 20Wx2 into 4 ohms. Also keep in mind most speakers are not 4 ohms, so you'll get even less power from it.

In short, it's junk.

 

[LunarMist]

The remote is the tricky bit...otherwise just get one of these.

That one is probably good for 5W.

$69.99 In stock
This product is not available for purchase at this time.

:scratch:

 

[ddrueding]

That one is probably good for 5W.

$69.99 In stock
This product is not available for purchase at this time.

:scratch:

20Wx2 or 50W single. Should be plenty for your purposes, no? Those things got considerable praise from a number of audio sites when they came out a number of years ago.

 

[LunarMist]

It looks like they are no longer made.

 

[Handruin]

The Emotiva UPA-2 I mentioned earlier is now $90 less while supplies last.

 

[time]

20Wx2 or 50W single.

That's peak power.

The user manual says 15+15W RMS or 30W RMS mono.

Manufacturers have a habit of of hooking these DC products up to a big-assed bench power supply when they take their measurements, rather than the weedy wall wart they bundle with the product. The user manual gives the game away, rating the power adapter for 1000mA at 24V. Because that's only a single rail power supply, amplifier efficiency won't be stellar - in fact they state 75%.

I think a realistic expectation is 10+10W RMS, which coincidentally is the level at which they rate the THD.

People are easily fooled because of the logarithmic sensitivity response of human hearing. 10W is half as loud as 100W and cheap speakers tend to be efficient, so who's to know it's no more powerful than your TV?

 

[fb]

The watt rating says nothing really... I got tinnitus from a couple of 2x25 W car amplifiers, so 2x10 W real watts is probably OK.