Nichia Develops 60 Lumen Per Watt White LED

[time]

Unfortunately, I can believe that. 40W is enough to have some impact on the internal temperature if the door is open for a minute or two.

What is it that drives Americans to excess in all things? Not meaning to be offensive, but efficiency just doesn't appear to be part of the DNA. Even the internal space utilization of household refrigerators is inefficient, with sizes up to 40% bigger than what would be considered normal in other countries.

[/rant]

 

[Howell]

Moderation in all things, including moderation.

Or maybe the Pareto principle has made us lazy.

 

[LunarMist]

Unfortunately, I can believe that. 40W is enough to have some impact on the internal temperature if the door is open for a minute or two.

What is it that drives Americans to excess in all things? Not meaning to be offensive, but efficiency just doesn't appear to be part of the DNA. Even the internal space utilization of household refrigerators is inefficient, with sizes up to 40% bigger than what would be considered normal in other countries.

[/rant]

The light bulb is made in China. It is bright enought to locate and remove what is needed in less than 2 minutes.

My fridge is hardly excessive. It is a modest one, and only ~19 cubic inches. Even so, it is more than sufficient for individual use by someone that does not like to cook or eat. The unit is only about four years old, so the efficiency is decent. I had a large refrigerator years ago, which resulted in keeping stuff in there longer and having more trouble finding things.

At one point I visted my mother in the 90s and she had 60-something ft ^3 of refrigerator/freezer space. Some of the items looked like they had been ther forever.

 

[Stereodude]

It is a modest one, and only ~19 cubic inches. Even so, it is more than sufficient for individual use by someone that does not like to cook or eat.

I'm gonna guess there's a typo in there. 19 in^3 would be 2.66" x 2.66" x 2.66". :rofl:

 

[LunarMist]

It should be in cubic feet. The imperialistic system is so difficult. :cheers:

 

[LunarMist]

orc:Ack. Typos galore.

 

[time]

See, you've proved my point without even understanding it. Outside the US, 19 cubic ft is a big fridge, not a modest one.

Even in Australia (the 52nd state), side-by-side door refrigerators are the exception rather than the norm, although that's been changing with the new 'McMansion' houses that have been all the rage for the last few years.

Side-by-side here tops out at about 25 cu ft, that's the absolute largest you can buy - in a normal brand anyway. By far the most common style is freezer-on-top, which tops out at about 19.4 cu ft (550 liters). Average size is more likely between 10-16 cu ft.

Some years ago, I worked out that quoted capacity meant little and it all came down to how many shelves. The refrigerator compartment of our 550 liter full-width freezer-on-top fridge has 5 shelves, plus a 0-2C 'chiller' compartment, plus a fruit & veg 'crisper'. One of the shelves retracts to half size to enable a heap of bottles to stand up. The door has 3 shelves + 2 bottle bins. The freezer has 3 shelves + another 3 in the door.

It can hold a colossal amount of food and drink, certainly enough for 6 people.

Admittedly, many contemporary designs are stupid and don't provide the storage to go with the capacity. My point is, over-sized fridges waste quite a lot of power, as well as being a PITA to fit into kitchens. Side-by-side wastes the most power, but we even have ludicrous developments such as 'French Doors', which are just a freezer-below design where you have to open two doors (with a dubious seal) to get at anything.

 

[time]

What makes a refrigerator European?

 

[time]

If a toilet room is 2.1x1m or 2.3x0.9m with a ceiling of 2.4m, that's about 5000 liters. Unless they're jtr1962, most people would be happy with a 40W incandescent bulb in a room that size, especially if the walls are a light color.

The interior of a domestic refrigerator is invariably white. Incandescent light sources emit in every direction, so effective illumination is an inverse cubed function.

In other words, if the volume is reduced by 9 times, the necessary lighting power is reduced by 3 times. So a 13W bulb ought to provide adequate illumination for a 550 liter fridge.

Conversely, a 40W bulb in a 550 liter fridge would be like a 360W bulb in a toilet ...

 

[jtr1962]

The reason Americans typically have large refrigerators has to do with yet another inefficiency-sprawled out living. Many people shop for groceries at big box stores perhaps once or twice a month. As a result, they need the space to store a large amount of perishables. Back in the days when people lived in cities, and could walk to the store every day, there was no need for such huge refrigerators. I'm not defending this lifestyle, which I consider wasteful on many levels, but simply stating that large refrigerators serve a necessary function. Grocery shopping is generally an ordeal in suburbia where you have to get in the car, drive 10 or 20 miles to the local big box store, spend a few hours shopping ( and often another hour waiting on long lines to pay for it all ). As a result, it's something people would rather do as infrequently as possible. And it's also a vivid illustration of why sprawl is wasteful in more ways than is immediately obvious. On a positive note, there is a trickle of people migrating back to cities which will likely turn into a flood if energy prices go up ( actually when they go up, not if ).

It can hold a colossal amount of food and drink, certainly enough for 6 people.

Or a single person like him.

If a toilet room is 2.1x1m or 2.3x0.9m with a ceiling of 2.4m, that's about 5000 liters. Unless they're jtr1962, most people would be happy with a 40W incandescent bulb in a room that size, especially if the walls are a light color.

I've actually been mostly getting along with the light from this nightlight I modded with LEDs. About 70 lumens, plenty to do most of my business, using only 1.7 watts. The bright lights are for when I shower so I can see what I'm doing. I made the LED nightlight to avoid turning on the fluorescents as much as possible since fluorescents don't like starting. The bath has 4 14W 5000K CFLs in one fixture, and a circline fixture on the ceiling with 2 circular lamps ( 22W and 32W IIRC ). Total lumens is probably in the 5K area, but we need that much to send a decent amount of light into the shower area. Future project is LED lighting for the shower ( low voltage supply of course ). So yes, the bathroom at present has a lot of lighting, but it's not used very frequently.

I've seen some homes which use 1000 watts of incandescents in high hats to light the family room. Ironically, given the size of many houses, this huge wattage didn't even really light the room all that brightly. Of course the homeowners got annoyed when I told them you could light the room brighter with a pair of 4x32W T8 fixtures and save about 3/4 of your power usage. For some reason Americans seem averse to using linear tubes in non-utility areas of their homes, opting instead for wasteful high-hats with incandescents, or at best CFLs ( which to me aren't much better given that you throw away the ballast when they burn out ). When comparing asthethics, I'm just not seeing how having a bunch of holes in your ceiling is any better than having a couple of flush-mount linear tube fixtures. Besides that, there are plenty of ways to integrate linear tubes into homes in ways in which they don't look "industrial" if only lighting designers would try. Instead, we're still using a lighting form factor ( i.e. the screw-base lamp ) which was obsolete not long after Mr. Edison assumed room temperature.

 

[ddrueding]

In Moscow my mother-in-law has a tiny fridge that doesn't work very well. She lives downtown, so the walk to the grocery store is only a couple blocks, and she does it every day. At best it takes her 30-45 minutes every day. This is such a ridiculous waste of time. If someone finally got the Webvan concept to work, I'd be all over it. But going shopping for food more than once a week is a massive inefficiency.

 

[timwhit]

If someone finally got the Webvan concept to work, I'd be all over it.

In Chicago we have Peapod, the prices are so much higher than a regular grocery store that it's not worth it. There are three large grocery stores within a block of my condo. We still only go grocery shopping once a week. It just takes too much time.

 

[Stereodude]

You guys don't get it. We're wasteful Americans. It's wrong to have a better standard of living than other countries.

 

[LunarMist]

I lived in Europe for years and most refrigerators were tiny boxes, even in a 2-bedroom place. I agree that culture is partly responsible. I also shop for groceries about once per week. It is unpleasant and time consuming enough. :dwarf:

 

[Handruin]

My grocery store is a bit over 5 miles. I go maybe once every 2-4 weeks. I don't buy much and probably eat out too often.

 

[Howell]

I used to have an 11 cu-ft fridge and when I got roommates I swapped out for a 22-24 cu-ft. Now I have one less roommate and an 18 cu-ft with a 60 W light bulb. I don't think in my life I've even changed the bulb in a fridge.

I shop for groceries once a week with a second weekly run for more fruit. My closest grocery store is maybe a mile away but I pass by at least 3 in the other direction on the way to work.

Without so much fridge space where would I put my left overs?

 

[Howell]

40W is enough to have some impact on the internal temperature if the door is open for a minute or two.

Who leaves the door open for that long?! I feel like I'm losing chill if its open for longer than 5-10 seconds. 30 seconds maybe but a full minute is ridiculous.

 

[Howell]

You guys don't get it. We're wasteful Americans. It's wrong to have a better standard of living than other countries.

Stock piling your fridge with vegetables you might eat two weeks from now is not as high a standard of living as buying enough veggies to eat in a couple of days. Just saying.

 

[time]

an 18 cu-ft with a 60 W light bulb.

60W!? Jesus ...

 

[time]

Who leaves the door open for that long?!

Okay, fair cop, I assumed that anyone with a 40W fridge bulb would also leave the door open for extended period of time - sorry, my bad.

 

[Handruin]

So the two 100W bulbs I recently replaced in my fridge is bad?

 

[Bozo]

Large refrigerators are a status symbol. (to some people)

 

[time]

Stock piling your fridge with vegetables you might eat two weeks from now is not as high a standard of living as buying enough veggies to eat in a couple of days. Just saying.

You're the only one to point out the bleeding obvious. I can see that Jamie Oliver has his work cut out for him.

Where I am, emergency fruit and veg can be had from a convenience store 5 minutes walk away. A bit over 1km away, there's a shopping center with 2 (large) supermarkets as well as an independent greengrocer (specialist fruit & veg grocer, Wikipedia says 'produce market' in US). About 1.5km away, there's another greengrocer.

1.5km in a different direction, there's another 2 supermarkets and an independent greengrocer.

It's 8 minutes drive to another greengrocer and another supermarket.

15 minutes drive in three different directions yields a further 6 supermarkets and 3 greengrocers. This doesn't include all the convenience stores (small supermarkets) that dot the landscape, nor the other supermarkets and greengrocers that I'm not even aware of.

If you're keen, 20 minutes drive takes you to the wholesale fruit and veg markets for the entire city of 1.9 million people (a coincidence of where I live).

You guys are really starting to make me wonder about 'standard of living', no bull.

 

[Handruin]

Sounds like your options are better than mine! There are only two grocery stores I consider near me. One is a bit over 5 miles (8km) away and not in any path in my daily commute. The other which I've only been to once is probably 6-7 miles (9.6-11.2km) in the complete opposite direction. I'm not aware of any specialty fruit stands or farms for local produce.

jtr's point about living in the city would really make a daily stop to the store for the basic needs seems more ideal. I could walk to work or ride a bike rather than use my car.

 

[Pradeep]

In Moscow my mother-in-law has a tiny fridge that doesn't work very well. She lives downtown, so the walk to the grocery store is only a couple blocks, and she does it every day. At best it takes her 30-45 minutes every day. This is such a ridiculous waste of time. If someone finally got the Webvan concept to work, I'd be all over it. But going shopping for food more than once a week is a massive inefficiency.

My mother tells me thaat when she first got married, we didn't have a fridge. If you wanted meat you picked it up at the store on the way home from work and cooked it that night. Milk is via evaporated powder, liquid milk that required refridgeration was a non starter in that time period. This was mid 1970s.

 

[timwhit]

You guys are really starting to make me wonder about 'standard of living', no bull.

Maybe you missed my post, but there are three large grocery stores within a block of my house. 1 block = 1/8 mile = 1/5 km

 

[time]

You're right, I missed it. Sorry.

We can also get fruit and veg deliveries to our door. Would that make it bearable for you guys?

 

[Howell]

60W!? Jesus ...

I know. That's what happens when the fridge light socket is the same size as the sockets on the ceiling fans, I'm sure. I'm sure one day it will burn out; and on that day I'll probably forget and replace it with the same thing that came out. :cheers:

 

[Bozo]

Stock piling your fridge with vegetables you might eat two weeks from now is not as high a standard of living as buying enough veggies to eat in a couple of days. Just saying.

Will they still be okay to eat after two weeks??
In the summer we buy our fruits and veggies from the local farmer's stands. If they aren't eaten in less than a week, they start to spoil.

 

[ddrueding]

We go about once a week. Just like an ocean voyage, the first several days are fresh veggies and steaks, the last few are things that last longer. I still insist that shopping every day (or even every other) is a horrible waste of time.

 

[Stereodude]

Stock piling your fridge with vegetables you might eat two weeks from now is not as high a standard of living as buying enough veggies to eat in a couple of days. Just saying.

My wife and I have a fridge that's ~25ft^3 including the freezer and we grocery shop about twice a week. Our closest "grocery" store (Meijer) is about 1.5 miles away and we drive past it daily. Having to stop on a daily basis would waste a lot of time, and banana's don't last long enough to shop any less than once a week.

 

[Stereodude]

Will they still be okay to eat after two weeks??

That depends what it is. Some things yes, some things no.

 

[Stereodude]

I still insist that shopping every day (or even every other) is a horrible waste of time.

And I completely agree with you! Back in the day people shopped every day because they didn't have a fridge to put the food in so bought fresh food & ate it that day or it went bad. Our standard of living has improved slightly since then.

 

[Howell]

I think once or twice a week is pretty normal. Plan your menu for the week and buy all your stuff. Bananas are also what drives my shopping from once to twice a week.

 

[Howell]

We can also get fruit and veg deliveries to our door. Would that make it bearable for you guys?

Make what bearable?

 

[sechs]

Bananas are also what drives my shopping from once to twice a week.

Speaking of bananas, I suggest that folks check out "Banana" by Dan Koeppel.

It rambles a little (actually, a lot), but nothing makes you feel so guilty about fresh fruit.

 

[LunarMist]

Speaking of bananas, I suggest that folks check out "Banana" by Dan Koeppel.

It rambles a little (actually, a lot), but nothing makes you feel so guilty about fresh fruit.

I used to get fresh bananas in Africa and the caribbean. Bananas are typically awful in North America.

 

[Pradeep]

The bloody fruit flies are all over the bananas here within a few days. One of the things I miss about Tas.

 

[LunarMist]

Where are you located now?

 

[time]

<Back on topic (sort of)>

Now, this (printable nano-lasers) is what I've been waiting for to light my home. Straight out of science fiction, but looks like a few years development required yet.