Opinions Wanted - System for my Dad

[Stinker]

HELLO!

Hope you guys can help me out. I've been out of the hardware scene for about 2.5 years. I would like to know what you think about this system I'm building for my Dad. He does not game at all. Maybe the occasional Flash game on the web. All he does is email and look at videos (i.e. youtube and who knows what else), pictures, and browsing the web. My budget is under $460. The components below are all that's needed for the build. Current total for the parts below is $391, so I could upgrade some of them if there is a good reason to. If you had an extra $69 to spend what would you add or change below and why?

Couple questions I have:
1.) Given his usage, would it be a good idea to upgrade to 4GB RAM? Not sure how Win7 64-bit is with RAM, I'm still using WinXP. I want the system be be snappy, for what it is.
2.) I plan on using the onboard video, ATI Radeon HD 4200. Any problems with that for the planned usage? I never used onboard video before. Will it be OK with Aero?
3.) Generally, I don't like Micro-ATX boards (just personal preference) but I still have picked out the Gigabyte board below. Is there any good ATX AM3 boards that have USB 3.0 + decent onboard video?

Windows 7 64-bit - $105

GIGABYTE GA-785GMT-USB3 AM3 AMD 785G HDMI USB 3.0 Micro ATX - $95

AMD Athlon II X3 435 Rana 2.9GHz 3 x 512KB L2 Cache Socket AM3 95W - $75

G.SKILL 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1333 (PC3 10600) Dual Channel Kit -$60

Western Digital Caviar Blue WD5000AAKS 500GB 7200 RPM - $56

THANKS! :scratch:

 

[LunarMist]

Can you afford two hard drives in some sort of backup arrangement, or maybe a larger, faster one like the WD1001FALS?

 

[Stinker]

Hello- Thanks for your reply. He has an existing HDD that is about 1.5 years old. I will be using that as an internal backup drive and have a scheduled task to backup his stuff on a daily or weekly basis. I hope the process for doing that is similar to the process using WinXP/SynchToy/Task Scheduler.....

 

[Mercutio]

I'd probably go with Intel just because I like vanilla stability. I'd look at something like a G31 or G41-based board from Intel or Gigabyte, with an E5300 CPU, 2GB DDR2 RAM (RAM is expensive right now and DDR3 isn't giving any benefit to a $500 computer), a pair of 500GB drives (Samsung > Hitachi = Seagate > a lump of crap with a SATA port > a Western Digital drive), an Antec case of some sort and an entry-level video card if such a thing is neeeded.

Should be very do-able.

 

[Stinker]

Only boards that I can get which have USB 3.0 built-in don't support DDR2 so I will stick with DDR3 I guess.

Anyone care to answer the 3 questions I posed?

Thank-you,
Stinker

 

[ddrueding]

Not really any point in more RAM unless he plans on doing all those things at once.

Current generation onboard video is fine for Aero.

Upgrading to an SSD (like the 40GB Intel) will provide a measurable speed increase for anyone doing anything.

 

[Mercutio]

1. Would not bother unless I saw a commit charge over 2GB on a regular basis.
2. Onboard video is generally fine. A gamer might think otherwise, but chances are very low that your dad would run a fullscreen 3d app if he spends all his time in a web browser now.
3. USB 3.0 is kind of a joke right now. I suspect you'll be better off buying a normal board and waiting six months to get a $10 PCI or PCIe card with USB 3 if your dad actually has an application for it. Also, just like previous generations of USB, I fully expect early chipsets will be half-baked designs that are buggy or missing features.

You're sort of suggesting that you want a reliable office PC, but I'm not sure a so-new-it-squeaks AMD system with an unproven chipset is a good way to go about it.

 

[udaman]

Not really any point in more RAM unless he plans on doing all those things at once.

Current generation onboard video is fine for Aero.

Upgrading to an SSD (like the 40GB Intel) will provide a measurable speed increase for anyone doing anything.

Uh, so how much experience do U have with W7 64bit?

If U do a Google search on RAM usage for W7 64bit you'll typically see a rec for 4GB RAM, as the minimum is almost always just barely enough...same for any OS really.

http://www.mydellmini.com/forum/del...indows-7-64-bit-mini-1012-a-post143598-2.html

Not sure what Merc's frame of reference is with respect to RAM being expensive now? I'd spend the extra to get to 4GB RAM.

Do any of you think that more video will not be posted in HD 720p or even 1080p on youtube or others? Have you checked your browsers to see how much RAM HD video sucks up...bigtime??? I doubt it, go try it right now, d/l 5+min of 1080p vids on youtube or other, then go look at how much ram is being sucked...it's alot!

Given a father, if he's like my father, doesn't understand this stuff, he could have 2 dozen windows open in any given session, and they could *all* be HD vids. Once the browser gets down to under 200MB of sys RAM or less, it starts to get very sluggish.

Browsers by nature are unstable, load up some other mem hogs like an image editor, video apps, etc, Quicken, (yeah, my father has *all* of those open at the same time ) then you easily end up using much of the supposed "plenty of RAM" you think a system has. Don't forget a browser keepa sucking up RAM, and doesn't release it properly, even if you close many of the vid windows/tabs...they suck for memory utilization.

Never skimp on RAM, IMHO it is a small price to pay for system stability/reliability...to add a little more. I'd do this before adding in any expensive SSD drives, that's beyond the system price being discussed.

Not sure what the OP needs/wants USB3.0 for, other than faster sys. backup to external drive???

 

[Stinker]

USB 3.0 is really more for me than him at this point. I want to mess with it and see how the onboard solutions are at this time....in preparation for building my own new PC.

However, a year down the road when he plugs in his 1st USB 3.0 peripheral, I want it to work w/o me having to put an add-in card for him.

I'm kinda on the fence about the RAM. Sticking with 2GB lets me get him a bigger 750GB Samsung HDD. I have a BUNCH of music I could put on that disk for him. He'd like that.

 

[Stinker]

Here's where I'm at with $450. I'm not terribly concerned with reliability. I don't think any of this stuff is bargain basement crap. I do want the system to have some speed to cope with my Dad's ability to screw things up. :viking:

• Kingston 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1066 (PC3 8500) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model KVR1066D3K2/4GR - Retail
• SAMSUNG HD754JJ 750GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive
• GIGABYTE GA-MA785GMT-UD2H AM3 AMD 785G HDMI Micro ATX AMD Motherboard - Retail
• AMD Athlon II X3 435 Rana 2.9GHz Socket AM3 95W Triple-Core Processor Model ADX435WFGIBOX - Retail
• Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit 1-Pack for System Builders - OEM

 

[ddrueding]

It is a good system. We could (and probably will) go on for quite a while about how my current commit is under 2GB with lots going on, and how even if you did start paging, an SSD would make it nearly unnoticeable while speeding up everything else all the time as well, and that USB3 is really unnecessary, but I just got it for my own systems.

Honestly, you won't regret getting what you just spec'd.

Now we can continue the debate

 

[Santilli]

"Couple questions I have:
1.) Given his usage, would it be a good idea to upgrade to 4GB RAM? Not sure how Win7 64-bit is with RAM, I'm still using WinXP. I want the system be be snappy, for what it is.
2.) I plan on using the onboard video, ATI Radeon HD 4200. Any problems with that for the planned usage? I never used onboard video before. Will it be OK with Aero?
3.) Generally, I don't like Micro-ATX boards (just personal preference) but I still have picked out the Gigabyte board below. Is there any good ATX AM3 boards that have USB 3.0 + decent onboard video?"

I'm using Win 7 for the first time, or actually second or third, if you count the betas.
I see a LOT of ram usage. Right now I'm using about 1.9 gigs of ram, ripping and surfing, with only 4% processor.

I wonder if staying with XP 64 might not be a better idea for snappy stuff? 7 is a pain. It's like using the Mac OS with all the stupid eye candy, and, it buries basic stuff under layers of garbage.

I HAVE to use it, since I need the TRIM feature for my drives, but, I set it in classic mode, and it's still a pain.
I'm 56, so I'm probably near as old as your dad.

I can't comment on 2 and 3.

 

[Santilli]

I'm ripping, transferring a 50 gig file, surfing, and, using 3.03 Gig of ram. YES, 4 gigs is a great idea, if you are using 7.

 

[sdbardwick]

I'm ripping, transferring a 50 gig file, surfing, and, using 3.03 Gig of ram. YES, 4 gigs is a great idea, if you are using 7.

Maybe, maybe not. Win7 uses and reports memory usage differently than previous versions. What does Task Manager report for Total, Cached, Available, Free?

Win7 runs just fine on 2GB for everyday office/web surfing use.

Arstechnica has a decent description of Win7 memory management and the confusion it generates.

 

[Stinker]

Did a little more searching...seems like 2GB is the sweet spot for Vista so I would expect it to be fine for Win 7. Maybe I'll take the $ saved from getting 2GB RAM and get a new PSU to make the system better from a reliability perspective.

 

[Stinker]

So here's where I'm at at $451. Final thoughts anyone?

I agree that an SSD would be nice but not on this budget.

Thanks,
STINKER

• CORSAIR CMPSU-400CX 400W ATX12V V2.2 80 PLUS Certified Compatible with Core i7 Power Supply - Retail
• Kingston ValueRAM 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1333 (PC3 10600) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model KVR1333D3N9K2/2G - Retail
• SAMSUNG HD754JJ 750GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive
• GIGABYTE GA-MA785GMT-UD2H AM3 AMD 785G HDMI Micro ATX AMD Motherboard - Retail
• AMD Athlon II X3 435 Rana 2.9GHz Socket AM3 95W Triple-Core Processor Model ADX435WFGIBOX - Retail
• Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit 1-Pack for System Builders - OEM

 

[Stinker]

Pulled the trigger. Could not pass up on the combo deal, 1TB Samsung F3 + Thermaltake BlacX Enclosure for $76 shipped free. That's $2 more than the 750GB Samsung was all by itself.

$459, shipped.

http://imm.io/7Iy

 

[Mercutio]

What are you using for a chassis?

 

[Stinker]

Antec NSK 4480, IIRC. Either that or another mid-tower in that family of cases. Don't remember exactly what he has.

 

[Handruin]

Don't listen to Udaman with his rants against Win7, he's an Apple user so he implicitly hates Microsoft. It's part of the contract when you sign over to Apple products.

Windows 7 works perfectly fine with 4GB, it's not "barely enough" as he makes claim. I have it on my notebook with 4GB and I can do all my photo editing with photoshop and Canon DPP without any issues.

 

[Stinker]

Don't listen to Udaman with his rants against Win7, he's an Apple user so he implicitly hates Microsoft. It's part of the contract when you sign over to Apple products.

Windows 7 works perfectly fine with 4GB, it's not "barely enough" as he makes claim. I have it on my notebook with 4GB and I can do all my photo editing with photoshop and Canon DPP without any issues.

But I opted to go with 2GB and the new PSU instead. :cat:

 

[Handruin]

Pulled the trigger. Could not pass up on the combo deal, 1TB Samsung F3 + Thermaltake BlacX Enclosure for $76 shipped free. That's $2 more than the 750GB Samsung was all by itself.

$459, shipped.

http://imm.io/7Iy

I bought the same deal with the 1TB F3 Samsung with the Thermaltake SATA dock just a couple days ago. That's some bullshit that it went down from $89 to $76 in just 3 days from when I ordered mine with the same deal. Mine is scheduled to be delivered today. Aside from being kinda pissed at newegg right now, this will be my 3rd 1TB F3 and so far I really like the drives.

 

[Will Rickards]

Does that onboard video share the system RAM or does it have its own dedicated RAM?
If it shared system RAM I would definitely go with 4GB otherwise 2 is fine.

 

[Handruin]

I just contacted newegg support and they gave me the $13 credit as a gift card because of the change in price.

 

[time]

Couple questions I have:
1.) Given his usage, would it be a good idea to upgrade to 4GB RAM?

2GB is adequate right now with light-weight 32-bit apps, but 4GB would be a better hedge for 64-bit, particularly with integrated graphics stealing some of it. DDR3 is preferable for ease of future expansion.

2.) I plan on using the onboard video, ATI Radeon HD 4200.

It's surprisingly good and comes with DVI and HDMI support. No bandwidth, so games will seriously struggle at native monitor res, but that's okay for most people.

3.) Generally, I don't like Micro-ATX boards (just personal preference) but I still have picked out the Gigabyte board below.

Full ATX is for hard core gamers who want to use crossfire etc (although you can even get that in mATX now), or some other exotic feature only available in the larger form factor. The extent of I/O integration makes mATX more than adequate for most people - in this case you'll still likely end up with 4 vacant expansion slots.

I really would get the USB 3.0, it's likely to be hugely popular. Apart from the far, far higher speeds, it can deliver much more power and work with longer cables (albeit at reduced speeds). The current NEC implementation found on these motherboards has already been tested around the web, so I have no idea what Mercutio is banging on about.

BTW, power supply requirements are minimal for what you've specified. 300W would be heaps (yes, I realize that 400W is probably the smallest you can get anyway).

 

[time]

Sorry, looks like I was too slow to post. Good luck with your purchase.

 

[Mercutio]

I have no idea what Mercutio is banging on about.

When USB 2.0 was released, it was ultimately revealed that there were multiple specifications that the USB people wanted to call USB and USB Hi-speed. Any number of products shipped with "USB 2.0" support that did not offer USB Hi-speed, which was touted as the principle advantage of having second generation USB.

Furthermore, various early Hi-speed (and that's the trade name, I'm not illiterate) USB 2.0 devices had (or have!) all kinds of goofy limitations with regard to whether they can only be plugged in to a root hub, whether they'll work on an extension cable, how frequently they disconnect and how fast the controller can actually manage to transfer data.

And do you not remember the sheer obnoxiousness of needing to patch Windows for USB 2.0 controllers to become operational?

What I fully expect to see are a huge number of devices that adapt the USB 3.0 connector that have no reason to do so, a morass of poor software support, especially on XP, overpriced add-in controllers and second-generation products that are much better than the initial models.

Asus issued a press release more than six months ago claiming to have USB3 on its motherboards, but as far as I can tell none of those boards were actually sold to the public.

 

[ddrueding]

Hey until I can get a USB3 mouse, I am not satisfied

 

[Handruin]

I want a USB 3 powered easy bake oven. The throughput on that will be amazing.

 

[Will Rickards]

Can USB3 provide 100W of power? Because that is the type of light bulb you need in those.

 

[Mercutio]

Can USB3 provide 100W of power? Because that is the type of light bulb you need in those.

All you need is a 1kW PSU and a BUNCH of USB cables...

 

[Handruin]

No, I was only joking. This is what I found on the net:

More power when needed

* 50% more power is provided for unconfigured or suspended devices (150 mA up from 100 mA), and 80% more power is available for configured devices (900 mA up from 500 mA). This means that more power-hungry devices could be bus powered, and battery powered devices that previously charged using bus power could potentially charge more quickly.
* A new Powered-B receptable is defined with two extra contacts that enable a devices to provide up to 1000 mA to another device, such as a Wireless USB adapter. This eliminates the need for a power supply to accompany the wireless adapter...coming just a bit closer to the ideal system of a wireless link without wires (not even for power). In regular wired USB connections to a host or hub, these 2 extra contacts are not used.

 

[time]

Yes, given that many powered USB devices are borderline or already exceed the USB 2.0 spec, any increase there will be welcomed with open arms.

From the PC Authority review:
with the USB 3 connection enabled the drive’s performance was more than twice that of USB 2 in our multifile (3,000 files totalling 300MB) test. With a single 650MB file the performance improvement was almost four-fold.

 

[ddrueding]

Gigabyte had already just gone ahead and provided 3x the power on USB2, so we have that covered

 

[Stinker]

System seems to be running great. I was not quite happy with how smooth it was running with 2GB RAM so I upgraded to 4GB and am much happier with it. I think my Dad will be do because I know, eventually, he'll have about 15 startup programs running in the background. I blew the budget by $50 but I'll probably be able to sell his old stuff for at least that much on eBay or use it for something nonetheless. Thanks for you suggestions guys!