Photography Advice

[Mercutio]

Flash RAM can be fast because of the whole zero seek time thing.
CF can be faster than most flash RAM because it has its own embedded I/O controller (hence things like Lexar "Ultra" CF media).

But it isn't fast reading or writing because there's a multi-step electronic process that has to take place before any single bit can be changed. Flash RAM has to hold data even with no power, so there has to be a physical change (gate operation, I guess - I'm not an EE) in the media to accompany a change in data. Hence, it's slow writing, just like everything else.

Five years or so ago, 3ware had a 4GB solid-state drive on the market. It had a seek time of 0 but apparently it was UW SCSI (40MB/s) and IIRC it didn't even get close to saturating THAT bus.

 

[Mercutio]

Ordered a 10D. I absolutely can't find a D70 at retail. I looked for what, a month?

Anyway, I hope to have it in a week or so.

 

[Pradeep]

At work we are having issues with the EOS-1Ds. Green banding in images towards the end of the day. Not good. And of course the one year warranty ran out a couple of week ago We are thinking overheating but it should behave better in 72F A/C. Looks like we'll be moving to EOS-1D Mark IIs, 3 MP less rez, but much faster at 8fps. Sensor is smaller but the density is similar to the 35mm full-frame on the 1Ds. Plus with a rated shutter life of 170,000 that will be handy as well.

Did you get the 10D with the kit lens Merc?

 

[Pradeep]

Ooops I see you got the 10D, what lens did you get for it?

 

[timwhit]

Did you get a new job Pradeep?

 

[Mercutio]

Ooops I see you got the 10D, what lens did you get for it?

I haven't yet. I'm going to take my camera to a store and try a few different ones out. Canon Lenses, at least, are really easy to find.

 

[Pradeep]

Did you get a new job Pradeep?

Yeah I got me a good olde American job It's buried in the Something Random thread.

Actually my job for tonight is to spec a nice workstation machine for image processing, the CEO is fixated on dual Xeons and I mentioned that Opterons are both cheaper and have much better memory performance compared to the shared bus that is the Xeon.

 

[LunarMist]

At work we are having issues with the EOS-1Ds. Green banding in images towards the end of the day. Not good. And of course the one year warranty ran out a couple of week ago We are thinking overheating but it should behave better in 72F A/C. Looks like we'll be moving to EOS-1D Mark IIs, 3 MP less rez, but much faster at 8fps. Sensor is smaller but the density is similar to the 35mm full-frame on the 1Ds. Plus with a rated shutter life of 170,000 that will be handy as well.

I am curious to know the 1Ds defect. Was it a PCB or the sensor? I have never heard of any overheating problems with the CMOS sensors. The 1D sensor is CCD and can overheat temporarily from prolonged shooting.

BTW, the 1D II's shutter is rated for 200,000 cycles compared to 150,000 for the 1v, 1D and 1Ds.

What we really need is a FF body with the pixel density of the 10D (about 16 megapixels) and 8fps. The 2-body system thing is getting old.

 

[Pradeep]

I am curious to know the 1Ds defect. Was it a PCB or the sensor? I have never heard of any overheating problems with the CMOS sensors. The 1D sensor is CCD and can overheat temporarily from prolonged shooting.

BTW, the 1D II's shutter is rated for 200,000 cycles compared to 150,000 for the 1v, 1D and 1Ds.

What we really need is a FF body with the pixel density of the 10D (about 16 megapixels) and 8fps. The 2-body system thing is getting old.

We don't know yet. We have sent some images with the artifacts to Canon I believe. We may be getting close to the rated shutter life, but even with a dodgy shutter we shouldn't be getting the green banding we experienced. In any case we got another 1Ds today, when we convert to grayscale the banding is not apparent, so for full colour images we will use the new camera for now. I'll report back if we ever find out what happened.

 

[LunarMist]

Merc,

What did you decide?

Pradeep,

How is the 1D Mark II? I am thinking about getting two of them and also keeping one 1Ds until the 1Ds Mark II (or whatever) is available.

 

[Mercutio]

The guy at the camera store sold me an Image-Stabilizing 28-135mm f/3.5-5.6 lens. The guy at the counter said it was a good "starter" lens, and it was the first thing he recommended. I tried a number of other lenses but ultimately came back to that one. I think the IS really helps a lot.

 

[mubs]

What does it do? How can it stabilize the image if the camera shakes? Pray tell.

 

[LunarMist]

You can read about Canon IS here. Although Canon was first with consumer IS lenses, Nikon VR and Sigma OS utilize similar technology. The 28-135 IS is primarily used for travel/scenics where depth of field is needed and a tripod is impractical or not allowed. It is a slow lens at the long end, so use indoors or in dark conditions is difficult. The 24-70 or earlier 28-70 are preferred for superior image quality at the lower end of that range, where IS is not usually needed. (IS is most useful on the longer lenses 70-200 and above.)

 

[mubs]

Cool, thanks! Sounds like a really useful feature to have.

 

[ddrueding]

I've noticed that turning IS off when shooting from a tripod helps a lot; it seems the lens is looking for movement that isn't there otherwise and actually blurs the shot by attempting to adjust.

I'm sure those that have it know, but I didn't read it on the page just linked.

 

[LunarMist]

Dave,

There is much confusion and misinformation surrounding the Canon IS lenses. The first generation of IS lenses including the EF 28-135mm f/3.5-5.6 USM IS
EF 75-300mm f/4-5.6 USM IS, EF 300mm f/4 USM L IS, and EF 100-400mm f/4.5-5.6 USM L IS were rather primitive and the IS system would drift on a tripod. Later lenses (2nd generation) including the EF 300mm f/2.8 USM L IS, EF 400mm f/2.8 USM L IS, EF 400mm f/4 USM DO IS, EF 500mm f/4 USM L IS, EF 600mm f/4 USM L IS have better IS and also temporarily shut down the IS when the vibrational frequency is below a certain value. This allows for tripod use as the IS is still available when needed. Third gen lenses, beginning with the EF 70-200mm f/2.8 USM L IS, have even faster IS (at least 3 stops worth) and can also be used on tripods.

 

[mubs]

LM, I take it you're a "Canon person"? Like coffee people and tea people, the camp seems to be split mainly between Canon and Nikon (I'm not counting the large-format guys, the specialist guys, etc., just ordinary guys like me).

My first serious photo experiences in my late teens was with a Canon AE-1. Have never touched a Nikon, and if I had to pick one I guess I would favor Canon.

 

[LunarMist]

Canon, Nikon, Mamiya (6x7), Contax G. I have not used 4x5 in many years. Over the last couple of years I added a bunch of Canon gear because they have the better digital options. I am waiting for Photokina to decide whether to go with a split Nikon/Canon system for the next few years. Choices were much easier and less costly with film bodies.

 

[EdwardK]

Hello LunarMist,

Are you going to Photokina? Nikon Europe just anounced the Nikkor AF-S VR200 f/2 http://www.europe-nikon.com/details.aspx?countryid=20&languageid=22&prodId=937&catId=125. I am wondering if you could give your opinion on this baby. f/2 :excl: in a telephoto lens.

Cheers,
Edward

 

[Mercutio]

Guess I shoulda gotten the 300D anyway.

 

[LunarMist]

Hacking the firmware does not make the 300D into a 10D. The 10D is not particularly rugged, but the 300D uses cheesy plastic construction and a pentamirror rather than magnesium alloy and glass. That is not to mention the inferior controls and ergonomics of the the 300D, including lack of a rear control dial (ugh), reduced and confusingly (for Canon) placed buttons, measly 4 frame buffer, etc.

 

[Pradeep]

Well we got a 1D MkII at work last week. Thanks for the help Lunar, it's definitely much faster than the 1Ds.

Tho we are having some issues, mostly software related. One, RemoteCapture is buggy and crashes with the MkII. So we have to use the provided EOS Capture. Unfortunately, that entails having to disconnect the remote trigger cable before it will let us change the destination directory for the images to go into. At least with RemoteCapture and the 1Ds we could change directories with the remote trigger attached. Also with Remote Capture when you delete a couple of images, and reshoot, it would name the files going from what the highest numbered file remaining was. So there were no gaps in the numbers. With EOS Capture, say I delete 004 and 005, it will shoot the next frame as 006. Unless I unplug the trigger, go into settings and modify the start file number. And of course when I reconnect the trigger it fires a frame. So there will always be a gap. Arghhh!

 

[LunarMist]

Canon software is notoriously terrible; it makes the just plain bad Nikion software look good by comparison.

At least there have been some improvements in that the File Viewer Utility (FVU) has been replaced with the EVU (EOS Viewer Utility) for the bodies up through the 10D. The new DPP (Digitial Photo Professional) that ships with the 1D MKII (and works with the 1D and 1Ds) is fairly usable, compared to the crappy FVU originally supplied with the 1Ds. I am still waiting for BreezeBrowser support of the 1D MKII.

Merc, what are you using for RAW file conversion and viewing?

 

[Mercutio]

Photoshop's RAW plug-in.

Is there something else I should try?

 

[miksmi]

300d vs 10d buyer's remorse

Hi Mercutio,

I don't usually post but I hate to see you with buyer's remorse. Once you become addicted to photography I think you'll find the 10D's 9 image buffer is more versatile than a 300D's 4 image buffer. The post below lists differences between a 10D a Canon BIOS 300D.

When I bought my 10D a year ago, I told myself that a digital camera is merely electronics disguised as a camera. Prices will plummet like a meteor when Canon introduces the next model with a larger sensor, a disease endemic to consumer electronics. Because of what I assume is Canon's excellent understanding of supply and demand, my 10D held its value over a year.

Please join me on the Canon-10D list, where I also lurk more than post:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Canon-10D/

If you're still looking for photography books, I'll dig up my references.

--

Subject: Differences in 10D vs 300D was ---> Re: [Canon-10D] Image quality between 10D & Digital Rebel
Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 22:27:30 +1000
From: Greg Wright <..com.au>
To: Canon-10D@yahoogroups.com
..
With a 10D You would gain this over a 300D

ability to control metering in different modes
probably better exposure with flash and flash compensation
ability to control focus mode
ability to have finer control on files saved
other things like mirror lockup
LCD panel is on top, good when taking shots with the camera facing up
on a tripod.
buffer of 9 images v 4 in rebel

You will give away these features of the 300D

Ability to use wireless remote shutter release (has built in wireless
reciever)
Weight advantage
Better on camera flash (is higher, less red eye etc)
ability to use the one and any future EF-S lenses that may be produced
300D produces nicer JPG's IMO
LCD pane is on rear, much better if on a tripod and level or facing
downward for Macro's etc
buffer of 4 images v 9 in 10d

Despite what people may think, if you use these 2 cameras for some
time, you will conclude that the 300D is in fact a later model, it
shows, so it is not just a 10D with a cheaper casing, the 10D is a
better camera overall to the serious photographer though.
--
Regards -- Greg Wright, Sydney, AU
<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Canon-10D/

 

[miksmi]

Breeze Browser for RAW conversion and browsing

I can't edit my post so I'll add this:

For RAW conversion and browsing, I use Breeze Browser. For verified downloads from my laptop's CF card reader, I use Downloader Pro. Chris Breeze is the author of both:
http://www.breezesys.com/

 

[mubs]

Merc, you've been pretty silent about your new camera. So has Pradeep with his D70. Comments and thoughts, gentlemen?

 

[mubs]

On a related note, can somebody give a quick tip to a newbie?

When I edit the JPGs my camera takes, I guess it's best to open the file, edit, and save as TIFF till all iterations of edits are done, then finally resave as JPG so the quality doesn't degrade with each save?

 

[miksmi]

Correct, mubs. Don't overwrite the original JPG, it's your "negative"; save the original JPG and the final JPG. You can delete TIFF workfiles unless you want to save intermediate results. Does your camera support RAW? If you start with RAW and convert to TIFF, there is less image degradation than converting JPG to TIFF (because RAW has a larger color gamut).

Feel free to ask other questions and I'll do my best.

 

[Mercutio]

I like it a lot, but I haven't had much time to practice with it. I take it for wanderings around my local park, but I haven't taken any pictures yet where I can say "I'm proud of this". I've been trying to take pictures of people - the Saturday Rugby (yes, Rugby) game, kids on swings - things like that.
My main complaint has nothing to do with the camera and everything to do with the fact that I never seem to be able to get the camera ready to take the shot I really want.

 

[mubs]

Thanks, Merc.

Miksmi, thanks for the info. Hopefully I'm not dumb enough to overwrite the original! I always copy the folder that has the originals and work on the copy.

My camera only does Jpegs or Tiffs. Tiffs are out of the question because with the media maxed out (Smartmedia, 128MB), I can take only 8 pics at the rez I want! At the same rez, the 128 MB SM will hold 50 low-compression Jpegs.

My concren was with image degradion during conversion and repetitive editing. My understanding is that for the latter, TIFF files don't degrade like Jpegs. I don't know how bad the degradion is during conversion.

 

[miksmi]

Hopefully I'm not dumb enough to overwrite the original!

Oops, I didn't mean to imply that; I read about ppl doing it all the time so I thought I'd mention it.

My concren was with image degradion during conversion and repetitive editing. My understanding is that for the latter, TIFF files don't degrade like Jpegs. I don't know how bad the degradion is during conversion.

You are correct, TIFFs don't degrade like JPEGs. I read some articles about JPEG degradation but can't put my hands on them. You might look around http://photo.net, maybe in the index. Here are some workflow links:
http://www.dlcphotography.net/RawFormatWorkflow/RawFormatWorkflow.htm
http://www.rogercavanagh.com/helpinfo/06_workflow.htm

 

[LunarMist]

ARC has the advantage of integrating image processing features as part of the RAW conversion process. BB only does straight conversion so conrolleed denoising with NI or NN may be required as a seperate process. Some people like the various versions of C1 as they do provide an excellent workflow. I find BB to be excellent for organizing/editing images and also use it for for quick and dirty 8-bit RAW conversions on my notebook, where the fast conversion speeds are appreciated. BB is so inexpensive that everyone should have it. The renaming function alone is worth the cost.

Merc,

Be careful when photographing people in public, especially children.

 

[Mercutio]

I usually ask permission first.

 

[Howell]

My concren was with image degradion during conversion and repetitive editing. My understanding is that for the latter, TIFF files don't degrade like Jpegs. I don't know how bad the degradion is during conversion.

You are correct, TIFFs don't degrade like JPEGs.

It is/was my understanding that the image degradation was with repetitive saving of JPEGs. So you would not have to do your edits in a non-lossy format and then convert back to JPEG. Is this not correct?

 

[miksmi]

It is/was my understanding that the image degradation was with repetitive saving of JPEGs. So you would not have to do your edits in a non-lossy format and then convert back to JPEG. Is this not correct?

If you edit/save JPEGs, the image degrades during each save (as JPEG is a lossy format).

To avoid image degradation during multiple edit/save sessions, I convert the "negative" (either RAW or JPEG) to a non-lossy format like TIFF or PNG. I perform multiple edit/save sessions as TIFF/PNG, perhaps over multiple days. When satisfied with the image, I convert to JPEG for output to the web, printer, or lab for developing on photo paper.

Forgive me if I misunderstood your question.

 

[LunarMist]

It is/was my understanding that the image degradation was with repetitive saving of JPEGs. So you would not have to do your edits in a non-lossy format and then convert back to JPEG. Is this not correct?

If you edit/save JPEGs, the image degrades during each save (as JPEG is a lossy format).

To avoid image degradation during multiple edit/save sessions, I convert the "negative" (either RAW or JPEG) to a non-lossy format like TIFF or PNG. I perform multiple edit/save sessions as TIFF/PNG, perhaps over multiple days. When satisfied with the image, I convert to JPEG for output to the web, printer, or lab for developing on photo paper.

Forgive me if I misunderstood your question.

For other than very simple work, you really should use PS or a similar program that allows for adjustment layers. Every time a image is globally changed and saved as a TIFF, information is lost. Working in 16-bit mode helps in this regard. Also, outputting as a JPG causes image degradation that may be visible in a large, high-quality print. Many of the autolabs further process the image (e.g., upsampling, sharpening) prior to printing, exacerbating the artifacts.

 

[Howell]

Yeah, I think so.
I was trying to point out the difference between making multiple edits (crop, brighten, red-eye red..) and multiple saves. Sounds like the degradation happens on save.

I don't do enough to pictures to warrant multiple saves.

 

[Pradeep]

Merc, you've been pretty silent about your new camera. So has Pradeep with his D70. Comments and thoughts, gentlemen?

Well I used mine last week to take pics of the new house. But apart from that nothing exciting. At work we've switched completely to the 1D MkII, so much faster than the 1Ds it's not funny. We experimented with the possibility of using the D70 as a lower cost option, but with it's lack of a wired shutter release port it was ruled out. And the USB 1.1 transder speeds couldn't keep up with the data rate we need. I hear shutter noise all day long so coming home I really don't want to hear it. However once Canon get around to improving the speed of the 1Ds (MKII?) we'll prob go in that direction again.

 

[Mercutio]

The "event" that I'd been planning to take pictures of, I couldn't attend this year. I had to work that day. Kind of disappointing.

One of the good things about Amy being around more, though, is that she's done professional photography as a side job for about 8 years. We've been talking about going someplace interesting (like downtown Chicago or maybe the local Great America theme park) to take pictures/teach me more about my camera.