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Stereodude

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I've been getting very disturbing videos thru Whatsapp. Today there was one where a reporter (white but not American) is talking to a white official who openly says blacks and pygmies are less intelligent that Caucasians. The official said several other repugnant racist things. I don't the context of this conversation - before or after the election (I suspect it is after). The interviewee appears to be a high ranking official with the Trump admin.
Oh, really? The "interviewee appears to be a high ranking official with the Trump admin"? Which high ranking official is this? Surely they have a name right? I'm mean if you're going to make inflammatory claims you checked your facts right?

Quite shocking. What America has stood for the last 50 years is being overturned in a few weeks.
I didn't realize that America has stood for carelessly letting in terrorists. You know people like Tashfeen Malik. Or the sorts of people who have been committing terrorist attacks across Europe? Letting those people into the US is what America stands for? How come when Obama, GWB, Clinton, Reagan, etc. paused immigration and or refuge programs from different countries for security reasons no one said a word and now everyone is losing their minds?

BTW, how many refuges from the middle east has India accepted?

PS: Immigration to the US will never help the poor of the world. Lets visualize the problem:
[video=youtube_share;ZDceLiPLHWQ]https://youtu.be/ZDceLiPLHWQ[/video]
 
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mubs

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All right guys, attack me personally. It shows how immature and warped you are.

SD, where did I bring up immigration? I quoted the guy saying racist things. I guess that's ok with you? I didn't follow the election as closely as you did, and appointments Trump made. PM me your mobile # and I'll forward the Whatsapp video to you. See for yourself.

You can't deny Trump's said racist and chauvinistic things. Why would you be surprised if one of his officials or sidekicks (whoever this guy is) says something in similar vein?

As for India accepting refugees, that speaks to your ignorance. Look it up yourself.

The hostility here to anybody that says anything unflattering about Trump is astonishing.
 

mubs

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Thanks for the hearsay. Even more damaging than any election is the perpetuation of fake news. Can you any attribution of any kind? Snopes does not even have it listed.
So I'm not allowed to express an opinion on something I saw? How do you know it's fake? Because I brought it up? And I guess Snopes has an army of people doing real-time updates.
 

Stereodude

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All right guys, attack me personally. It shows how immature and warped you are.
Who attacked you personally? You were challenged on the accuracy of your claims.

SD, where did I bring up immigration?
Okay then, what were you referring to with, "What America has stood for the last 50 years"?

I quoted the guy saying racist things. I guess that's ok with you? I didn't follow the election as closely as you did, and appointments Trump made. PM me your mobile # and I'll forward the Whatsapp video to you. See for yourself.
So you have a video of some guy, no name, who says racist things. Where did I say that was okay? You're trying to tie some random video you got through social media to Trump and his administration. So far you've provided nothing. You can't even give us the guys name.

You can't deny Trump's said racist and chauvinistic things.
Actually I can. Where are the racist things?

Why would you be surprised if one of his officials or sidekicks (whoever this guy is) says something in similar vein?
You've yet to establish that the guy is one of Trump's officials or sidekicks. I'm sure if the video was legit and showed what you claimed it would be the leading news story on every mainstream media outlet. Yet, I don't see it. Maybe you can provide it to Dan Rather and Mary Mapes and they can break the story wide open.

Do you believe that Trump paid Russian hookers for golden showers in a bed that the Obama's slept in too?

As for India accepting refugees, that speaks to your ignorance. Look it up yourself.
Yes, I'm ignorant on Indian politics. That's why I asked you a question about it. Still, you don't see me giving you my opinion on Indian politics based on some video I got through social media.

And it turns out the answer here is apparently 0: https://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/29/...ndia-are-sitting-out-refugee-crisis.html?_r=0

The hostility here to anybody that says anything unflattering about Trump is astonishing.
Sorry, but fake news doesn't fly.
 

Handruin

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I'm still trying to find evidence of this new alternative fact known as the Bowling Green Massacre. They're doing a bang-up job with this new administration. :roll:
 

Handruin

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I didn't realize that America has stood for carelessly letting in terrorists. You know people like Tashfeen Malik. Or the sorts of people who have been committing terrorist attacks across Europe? Letting those people into the US is what America stands for? How come when Obama, GWB, Clinton, Reagan, etc. paused immigration and or refuge programs from different countries for security reasons no one said a word and now everyone is losing their minds?
Welcome to your new knowledge since you weren't aware. If you look into the details of recent immigration bans which aren't hard to find and then compare these recent events to the other ones in history, you'll find your answer as to the outrage.
 

Stereodude

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Welcome to your new knowledge since you weren't aware. If you look into the details of recent immigration bans which aren't hard to find and then compare these recent events to the other ones in history, you'll find your answer as to the outrage.
Yes, because this time George Soros is paying for protesters to go out with their commercially printed, but homemade looking, signs because Donald Trump is "evil". Got it!!!
 

Stereodude

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I'm still trying to find evidence of this new alternative fact known as the Bowling Green Massacre. They're doing a bang-up job with this new administration. :roll:
Yes, because somehow not putting attempted in front of it totally invalidates the point that the Obama administration suspended the Iraqi refuge program for 6 months in 2011 after two terrorists were let into the US through the refugee program.
 

Handruin

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Yes, because this time George Soros is paying for protesters to go out with their commercially printed, but homemade looking, signs because Donald Trump is "evil". Got it!!!
I'm glad you finally understand. There's plenty of information available to explain the differences in the immigration rage, but if you'd like to redirect your argument to George Soros as a reasoning, good luck with that. You must enjoy straw-manning your argument's defense.
 

Handruin

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Yes, because somehow not putting attempted in front of it totally invalidates the point that the Obama administration suspended the Iraqi refuge program for 6 months in 2011 after two terrorists were let into the US through the refugee program.
These were spoken words directly from her mouth. If she forgot an important word such as "attempted" to help keep in-check the usage of the word massacre, she's clearly unfit for the job she's in. Being that incompetent in her position to make "screw-ups" like that are resignation-worthy. That or it's part of her and/or her administration's strategy to misinform and then point fingers that the media in unreliable even though she stated this information on-camera. Somehow you're also finding a way to straw-man this as a form of defense also. This point has nothing to do with Obama.
 

Handruin

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Yes, because somehow not putting attempted in front of it totally invalidates the point that the Obama administration suspended the Iraqi refuge program for 6 months in 2011 after two terrorists were let into the US through the refugee program.
Also, Obama ordered that 57,000-58,000 Iraqi refugees recently allowed into the country be revetted, causing a massive backlog. He didn't execute a suspension or ban the Iraq refuge program, the program became delayed through a backlog.
 

Handruin

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I'm also still unable to find anything related to an "attempted" Bowling Green Massacre. None of her information makes any sense other than to prove she's incompetent or she's actively spewing false information intentionally for some other purpose.
 

jtr1962

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People in charge spew false information all the time. While I'm generally not a fan of doing this, there are times when well-placed misinformation or even outright character assassination can help further your goals. It sort of falls into the "ends justify the means" category.
 

jtr1962

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I've been getting very disturbing videos thru Whatsapp. Today there was one where a reporter (white but not American) is talking to a white official who openly says blacks and pygmies are less intelligent that Caucasians. The official said several other repugnant racist things. I don't the context of this conversation - before or after the election (I suspect it is after). The interviewee appears to be a high ranking official with the Trump admin.
It's really a half truth. The hard fact is intelligence tests have long been biased to favor the skill sets which might be more common among a white population of European ancestry. There are many ways of measuring intelligence. In general people's brains evolved so the skill sets most useful in the area where they're living are the most highly developed. Hitler carried this to an extreme, inventing metrics which "proved" those of an Aryan ancestry were superior. I'm not surprised someone in the Trump administration latched on to this.

Quite shocking. What America has stood for the last 50 years is being overturned in a few weeks.
I don't know. From where I stand America hasn't stood for anything good for more than 50 years. Trump is just ending the hypocrisy of us acting like we're savoir of the planet while imposing our will on countries less powerful than us. America has always stood for "America first". At least we're finally being honest about this.
 

Stereodude

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These were spoken words directly from her mouth. If she forgot an important word such as "attempted" to help keep in-check the usage of the word massacre, she's clearly unfit for the job she's in. Being that incompetent in her position to make "screw-ups" like that are resignation-worthy. That or it's part of her and/or her administration's strategy to misinform and then point fingers that the media in unreliable even though she stated this information on-camera. Somehow you're also finding a way to straw-man this as a form of defense also. This point has nothing to do with Obama.
57 states
 

Stereodude

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Also, Obama ordered that 57,000-58,000 Iraqi refugees recently allowed into the country be revetted, causing a massive backlog. He didn't execute a suspension or ban the Iraq refuge program, the program became delayed through a backlog.
I don't concede the point, but why is executing a temporary suspension or ban to visitors and refugees from 7 countries where people can't really adequately be vetted a problem? (even if Trump was the first president to do so, which he's not)

Aside from US citizens, no one has a legal right to enter the country. We extend the privileged to enter to others. It can be revoked. Exactly when did protecting the legal residents of your country from groups of people who could contain terrorists become a problem?

I still am waiting for someone to explain to me in logical & rational terms without name calling what the actual issue is here with Trump's executive order. You apparently can't do it nor can anyone else. All I see is emotional knee jerk reactions that are about as well thought out as the temper tantrums of a toddler.
 
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Handruin

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I don't concede the point, but why is executing a temporary suspension or ban to visitors and refugees from 7 countries where people can't really adequately be vetted a problem? (even if Trump was the first president to do so)

Aside from US citizens, no one has a legal right to enter the country. We extend the privileged to enter to others. It can be revoked. Exactly when did protecting the legal residents of your country from groups of people who could contain terrorists become a problem?

I still am waiting for someone to explain to me in logical rational terms without name calling what the actual issue is here with Trump's executive order. You apparently can't do it.
I made no attempt at name calling. If you're so certain that I can't explain this to you, then I will never be able to due to your own self-fulfilling prophecy. I also cannot attest to you being able to understand it so you're possibly right, I may not be able to explain it in ways you're able to understand. Based on you previous written discussion and argument style, there has been no point to even address the issue at hand because you were to busy making noise about other issues to distract from this topic.
 

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You need to be more specific after your post-edit. I'm having zero amounts of temper, let alone a tantrum and nothing I've done equates to that of a toddler. From what I've read so far, you're the one wildly throwing around info and then making distractions when it's challenged. That's not conducive of a meaningful conversation.
 

Stereodude

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I made no attempt at name calling. If you're so certain that I can't explain this to you, then I will never be able to due to your own self-fulfilling prophecy. I also cannot attest to you being able to understand it so you're possibly right, I may not be able to explain it in ways you're able to understand. Based on you previous written discussion and argument style, there has been no point to even address the issue at hand because you were to busy making noise about other issues to distract from this topic.
I didn't say you specifically attempted name calling. The people whom you apparently share views with get on TV and pretty much immediately embark on name calling and often falling to Godwin's law. The press coverage I've seen or read don't get into specific policy level details. Calling it "Un-American" doesn't explain anything.

The fact that you can't or won't write a few simple sentences about why what he's done is wrong leaves me guessing at what exactly it is you disagree with. When I postulated some points that I think you might be taking issue with you accuse me of "making noise about other issues to distract from this topic".
 

Stereodude

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You need to be more specific after your post-edit. I'm having zero amounts of temper, let alone a tantrum and nothing I've done equates to that of a toddler. From what I've read so far, you're the one wildly throwing around info and then making distractions when it's challenged. That's not conducive of a meaningful conversation.
Hey, I didn't bring Kellyanne Conway into the discussion. You did. As to the temper tantrums. Again, I didn't say you were having a temper tantrum. There are lots of people having temper tantrums though. Actors, celebrities, TV personalities, protestors, etc.

Look, I don't really care if Trump is the first president to do something like this. He's not. You can link me to articles saying Obama didn't do something similar. I can link to articles that say he did. Ultimately, that's arguing about semantics and wording like a bunch of lawyers. That misses the forest for the trees. So yeah, at some point I'm going to sweep that aside. It's clear we're not going to agree on whether Obama did or didn't do something similar, but that's ultimately irrelevant as the basis of my argument is not, "Well Obama did it too so it's okay." I simply mentioned that to point out the hypocrisy of the folks who are outraged. You feel there are distinctions and it's not hypocritical. Okay... I'd rather get to the core of the issue instead of arguing about whether Trump's actions are unprecedented. Unless, your problem with it is that they're unprecedented rather than the specifics of the action, it's not an argument worth spending my time on.
 

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OK, I'll bite for a minute.
I'll start by saying the countries he blocked haven't produced a terrorist that have attacked the USA in some time. There have been multiple terrorist attacks by US citizens here during that time though.
He "accidentally" blocked people with visas and green cards from entering and someone directed the CBP to ignore court orders.
He, and his administration have been outright lying for quite some time now about whatever they feel like, whenever they feel like it. I'm not going to look it up and provide you examples, you can find them on your own if you get out of your echo chamber. I'm talking about him saying stuff on his own twitter account, or on camera, then later saying he never said them. This isn't ok by any politician, and it shouldn't be the accepted norm.

I'm not going to waste anymore time on this, these are just a few examples. The man is untrustworthy, temperamental, and has a fragile ego on a level never before seen by anyone with so much power.
 

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All right guys, attack me personally. It shows how immature and warped you are.

The hostility here to anybody that says anything unflattering about Trump is astonishing.
Yikes, you are making it personal, not me. I made no reference to you personally and specifically referenced the hearsay.

I consider truth important and yes I'm opposed to untruths and half-truths. Because the untruths and half-truths floating around obscure what is true AND truly objectionable. The easier it is to dismiss the truths along with the untruths, the less likely anyone who would care will care.
 

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Stereodude

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OK, I'll bite for a minute.
I'll start by saying the countries he blocked haven't produced a terrorist that have attacked the USA in some time. There have been multiple terrorist attacks by US citizens here during that time though.
Do we have to be successfully attacked by people from those countries recently before we take a closer look at who we're admitting from them? We can't look at attempted attacks or attacks on countries outside the US or even what's going on in the countries themselves? Iraq, Iran, Sudan, Syria, Libya, Somalia, and Yemen are all places that are either hotbeds for terrorism with little to no organized gov't in control of the entire country or where the countries are state sponsors of terrorism, but I guess until your fellow countrymen bleed that doesn't matter.

He "accidentally" blocked people with visas and green cards from entering and someone directed the CBP to ignore court orders.
Sure, the roll out and implementation didn't go smoothly, but you can't find me any evidence that he or high ranking officials in his administration directed the CBP to ignore court orders.

He, and his administration have been outright lying for quite some time now about whatever they feel like, whenever they feel like it. I'm not going to look it up and provide you examples, you can find them on your own if you get out of your echo chamber. I'm talking about him saying stuff on his own twitter account, or on camera, then later saying he never said them. This isn't ok by any politician, and it shouldn't be the accepted norm.
First, I don't concede this point, but arguing back and forth about this will become a sideshow unto itself as we take it specific issue by issue / topic by topic where you'll start pulling up articles written by the propagandist wing of the democrat party, otherwise known as the mainstream media, and as I debunk them you'll accuse me using articles from my echo chamber that are wrong or lying. Or, we'll end up in a petty semantics discussion about what was actually said vs. meant vs. implied vs. dog whistled vs. whatever. So there's no point even starting down that road.

I'm not going to waste anymore time on this, these are just a few examples. The man is untrustworthy, temperamental, and has a fragile ego on a level never before seen by anyone with so much power.
And not a one of those points explains why it's a bad idea to more closely vet people from certain countries. It's basically, rah, rah, rah, Trump = bad. Your irrational hatred for the man has blinded you. It's apparently going to be a tough 8 years for many and a really entertaining 8 years for others.
 

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I just feel sorry for The Onion now when the real news has become even more outrageous than anything they have ever come up with.

And I think Trump will stay for <=4 years, not 8.
 

jtr1962

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Do we have to be successfully attacked by people from those countries recently before we take a closer look at who we're admitting from them? We can't look at attempted attacks or attacks on countries outside the US or even what's going on in the countries themselves? Iraq, Iran, Sudan, Syria, Libya, Somalia, and Yemen are all places that are either hotbeds for terrorism with little to no organized gov't in control of the entire country or where the countries are state sponsors of terrorism, but I guess until your fellow countrymen bleed that doesn't matter.
Sure, it's good policy to vet people from countries which sponsor terrorism regardless of whether or not they've successfully attacked us. That's why I have no qualms about what Trump is doing here. My larger complaint, and this has existed for decades, is why does the US stick its two cents in parts of the world where it has no business being, like the Middle East? That's radicalizing these people in the first place. And from what I can see Trump agrees with me. He wants to defend the US if it's attacked but he's also been skeptical of so-called "regime changes" under both parties. For example, $2 trillion and a decade later what exactly did we accomplish in Iraq? Might we have been better off just leaving Saddam in power?

Sure, the roll out and implementation didn't go smoothly, but you can't find me any evidence that he or high ranking officials in his administration directed the CBP to ignore court orders.
You could say that about nearly every facet of the new administration. This is probably the most disorganized new administration I've ever seen. My take on all this is to examine the situation a few months down the road after Trump hopefully gets his house in order.

It's basically, rah, rah, rah, Trump = bad. Your irrational hatred for the man has blinded you. It's apparently going to be a tough 8 years for many and a really entertaining 8 years for others.
I don't understand this myself. Wait and see what Trump does 3 months or 6 months down the road before passing judgement. Every new President deserves a grace period while they get things in order. Truth is I never had any strong positive feelings about either candidate in the months prior to the election. I thought both were awful but the more I learned about Hillary leading up to the election the more I'm glad she didn't get in. I'm loathe to admit I started singing "Ding dong the witch is dead" as Trump pulled ahead. All the people crying Trump got in should really be questioning why the Democratic primary was more about giving Hillary her coronation than picking the candidate whom the voters really wanted, namely Sanders. Maybe Sanders would have lost against Trump, but I think he had a better shot. He was saying a lot of the same things as Trump while Hillary was the candidate who got six figures for making speeches to Wall Street.

As for 4 years versus 8, that will depend I think on how successful Trump's policies are a keeping jobs in the US and also how ready the people would be to give the Democrats another chance should he fail.
 
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jtr1962

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And I think Trump will stay for <=4 years, not 8.
That will be highly dependent on the success or failure of Trump's economic policies. And if highly successful, I don't discount the possibility of more than 8 years, or even possibly the remainder of his natural life, as President, Fuhrer, Supreme Leader, or whatever title he picks. We're in uncharted territory at this point.
 

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Do we have to be successfully attacked by people from those countries recently before we take a closer look at who we're admitting from them? We can't look at attempted attacks or attacks on countries outside the US or even what's going on in the countries themselves? Iraq, Iran, Sudan, Syria, Libya, Somalia, and Yemen are all places that are either hotbeds for terrorism with little to no organized gov't in control of the entire country or where the countries are state sponsors of terrorism, but I guess until your fellow countrymen bleed that doesn't matter.
Because in the US we don't punish innocent people. You know, the whole it is better to let one guilty man go free than punish an innocent? These people were already being vetted, I'm all for vetting them more if it is possible, I don't think that's what this is about.
If we're all about safety, why don't we restrict guns from the mentally ill? It's because both sides don't know how to compromise anymore. They're not allowed to admit any idea from the enemy has any merit or they'll lose face with their voter base.

Sure, the roll out and implementation didn't go smoothly, but you can't find me any evidence that he or high ranking officials in his administration directed the CBP to ignore court orders.
I never said they directed them to, but I would be shocked if they didn't. It is a good example of a poorly thought out plan however.


... pulling up articles written by the propagandist wing of the democrat party, otherwise known as the mainstream media...
This statement alone tells me how far gone you are and there's no point in continuing. You really should learn to separate fact from opinion and learn to do research other than Fox, ljreview or whatever they're called and the other places who have their own biases and are clearly propagandist wings of the republican party. See, I can play too! I read stuff on both sides of the aisle, because I'm not a Democrat or a Republican, I think they both get a lot of shit wrong.


And not a one of those points explains why it's a bad idea to more closely vet people from certain countries. It's basically, rah, rah, rah, Trump = bad. Your irrational hatred for the man has blinded you. It's apparently going to be a tough 8 years for many and a really entertaining 8 years for others.
I never said I hated the man, and it surely wouldn't be irrational if I did. You're the blind one in this discussion. Someone so deep in the rabbit hole that you're afraid to even consider any point from the other side could ever possibly have any merit. I also find it hilarious that you think he'll get a second term. There is nearly zero chance of that happening, if he even lasts through this one.
 

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The immigration ban is pretty toothless since it's quite difficult to enter USA regardless of your origin. And wasn't Usama bin Laden and 15 of 19 terrorists in 911 attacks from another country, which isn't on the list?

So it's basically a populistic move.

I can't say we're much better in Sweden. We're all on our way to the "post truth" era. And it sucks...
 

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I'm not very affected by the "war on the muslim world" that Trump's administration is trying very hard to promote these days, what makes me cringe the most about him is the deregulation of business laws put in place to protect the public.

Someone hasn't learned from the 2008 crisis that cost American tax payers trillion of dollars.

That should piss off even die-hard republicans, unless they are at the top of the banking industry and plan to profit on the back of tax payers once again.

After a White House meeting with executives from Wall Street, Mr. Trump signed a directive aimed at the Dodd-Frank Act, crafted by the Obama administration and passed by Congress in response to the 2008 meltdown. He also signed a memorandum that paves the way for reversing a policy, known as the fiduciary rule, that requires brokers to act in a client’s best interest, rather than seek the highest profits for themselves, when providing retirement advice.
 

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I had not heard of this controversy and had to look it up. So this might help you too.
https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/02/...way.html?_r=0&referer=https://www.google.com/
"SNL mocks Kellyanne Conway's massacre blunder

In the SNL sketch, Baldwin's Mr Trump claims "everyone loves" his immigration ban, after Mr Turnbull queries him about the backlash.

"We had to do it because of that huge massacre at bowling green," he says — a jab at a gaffe made by White House adviser Kellyanne Conway last week.

"So many people died, but actually they're the lucky ones, because they don't have to see how bad The Apprentice has gotten," Mr Trump says."

http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2017-...ve-parodies-trump-turnbull-phone-call/8242720
 

jtr1962

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And wasn't Usama bin Laden and 15 of 19 terrorists in 911 attacks from another country, which isn't on the list?
They were from Saudi Arabia (which my late father always called "Southern Arabia" for some reason), a country whose ass we regularly kiss, just like we do to Israel. We should tell both of these places to go f themselves. Stop buying Saudi oil and stop giving financial help and military equipment to Israel.
 

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Of source....he has to continue this madness of discrediting everyone and anything that opposes his policy or anything that's not self-serving.
 

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😁 Carl Bildt‏ on Twitter:

Well, of course, the US media didn't report on the Bowling Green Massacre. And now the European media aren't reporting other massacres. Or?
 
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