POLL: $pera, $ozilla, $xplorer and $irefox

[Tannin]

OK, seeing as the topic is live right now, let's try a little thought-experiment. Imagine that web browsers were like operating systems or office software (ignoring OO and Linux) - i.e., that there was no such thing as a free web browser.

I'm asking you to imagine, in other words, that Windows ships with no browsers installed, and that you normally get onto the Internet by walking down to your local shop and buying a web browser in a shrink-wrapped box.

On the shelf there are a number of packages. You have $100. There is IE 6.0, Mozilla 1.7, Opera 6.0, Netscape 4.08, IE 5.5, and so on.

What is the most that you would pay for each of the browsers that you are interested in? (Remember, for the purposes of my little thought experiment, there is no such thing as a free one.)

I'll work an example.

Mozilla 1.7 or similar: $100
Mozilla 0.8: $5
Firefox 1.x: $40
Opera 6.0: $30 (would have paid $100 back when it was current)
Opera 7.5: couldn't give it away
Opera 8.x: still trying it, possibly as much as $80
Opera 8 with Opera 6 interface (imaginary product): $100
Netscape 4.x: couldn't give it away
IE 4.0: couldn't give it away
IE 5.0: $10
IE 5.5: $5
IE 6.0: $20

 

[ddrueding]

Neat idea. Keep in mind that my results, like everyone else's, will be affected significantly by what browsers we are more familiar with.

Mozilla 1.7 or similar: $35
Mozilla 0.8: $5
Firefox 1.x: $50
Opera 6.0: $25
Opera 7.5: $30
Opera 8.x: $30
Netscape 4.x: $10
IE 4.0: $5
IE 5.0: $10
IE 5.5: $5
IE 6.0: $25
IE 6.0 with XP SP2 and Firewall: $35

 

[Mercutio]

I would have to be paid to accept Opera in any version I have ever tried.

 

[Tea]

We know you hate Opera, Merc. That's not the quetion.

Which ones do you like? (If you don't like the money analogy, provide a mark out of ten.)

 

[Will Rickards]

Mozilla 1.7 or similar: $40
Mozilla 0.8: $5
Firefox 1.x: $40
Netscape 4.x: $0
IE 4.0: $0
IE 5.0: $1
IE 5.5: $1
IE 6.0: $5

(reasoning here is you need IE for some sites so a nominal charge is acceptable)
I've excluded Opera as I have no experience with it.

 

[Fushigi]

Assuming the firefox extensions I use were still free or were $5 or less each:

Firefox: $30
IE 6+: $15

I don't really use any of the others so I cannot comment on their value.

 

[Buck]

FireFox 0.9.3 or greater ~$50.00
IE 6.0 or greater ~$50.00
Opera 7.5x - 8.xx $20.00

Since I create web content I personally feel a need to purchase all three. As a web user, I would exclude Opera. IE does make browsing a very small, but important amount of websites possible, but FireFox would be the workhorse.

 

[Buck]

Tony, I think that the browser market would greatly benefit if your scenario were true - all browsers came packaged separately and were sold based on their own merit, not bundled in an OS for "free". In particular, I think we would see a drastic change with IE, because Microsoft would not stand by and wave adios to their market share. We would also see important updates to FireFox and Opera, plus new browsers to help mix up our options.

I remember purchasing Netscape Communicator 2, and the CD came with a bunch of plugins; Wow! that suite was light years ahead of IE 2 and 3. What was amazing was that Netscape ran so well on a 486 even with all the bells and whistles installed. Netscape Composer (was it composer that was used to write html?) was especially useful when I studied IIS 2.0 and quickly realized that Frontpage was crap.

 

[Gilbo]

This is for the latest versions available:

Firefox: US$45
Konqueror: US$25
Mozilla: US$10
IE: US$0

I haven't used Opera in --it might actually be-- five years, so I'm not reallly equipped to comment. Given my ancient, fond memories I'd probably rate it somewhere near Konqueror.

I honestly couldn't pay for IE. I might have a couple years ago, before security became an issue, but no longer. I've grown up and I've realized a couple things and Microsoft should too. A browser shouldn't be integrated into the OS the way IE is (Konqueror is different. I've begun to learn that IE is impossible in a Unix-like philosophy system). This integration is entirely unnecessary. It is an inherent architectural flaw no matter how much they patch the damn thing up. IE is unfixable. The thing was not built to be what it should be --so much of it is purposeless and unrelated to interacting with the internet in the way people do. Microsoft's whole conception of the thing is ass backwards.

I'm a huge believer in the 'build a tool for a purpose' philosophy and then leave it alone. And, goddamnit, integration is not a purpose in and of itself. I don't need a bloody hammer with an interchangeable bit screwdriver in the base --no matter how often screwing and nailing come together. Add no functionality that does not remove obstacles from the experience: build a tool for a purpose and ignore everything that does not intimately interact with that purpose.

It comes down to the fact that if I'm web browsing, I'm web browsing. If I need an e-mail client I'll open one. If I need to download something I have ctorrent. My Firefox has one toolbar, with back, forward, new tab, new window, and refresh to the left of the menus, not in an unnecessary extra bar, then an address bar, and a search bar. Small icons. This takes up as little space as possible. The browser should be a window, as much like glass as it can be.

These days I find the lack of good, purpose-built software to be epidemic, hence the rant :wink: .

 

[i]

Mozilla 1.7.5 or similar: $34.99
Firefox 1.x: $24.99
Netscape 4.x: $4.99
IE 5.0: $0.11
IE 5.5: $0.49
IE 6.0: $0.29

 

[Bozo]

Firefox $40 - $50
IE $5

You need IE to install security patches, other than that I could care less.
Don't have much experiance with the others. I used Opera a few years ago but the desktop was too cluttered, even after I paid for it.

I tried to get some of the Linux browsers to work when I was trying out RedHat, Mandrake, and a couple of others. Gave up on Linux all together. It's too much like going back to DOS.

Bozo :mrgrn:

 

[Computer Generated Baby]

• Mozilla 1.7 L2300
  Firefox 1.0: $16
  Opera : Ð80
  Netscrape: couldn't give it away
  IE6: ¥17000
  IE5: £0.92
  IE4: DM0.06
  IE3: ¢1
  IE2: ¢0.01
  IE1 beta: priceless

 

[Mercutio]

IE 6 is NOT worth $161. Windows XP isn't worth $161.

 

[Computer Generated Baby]

IE 6 is NOT worth $161. Windows XP isn't worth $161.

I tink I was trying to say ¥1700.

 

[Tannin]

What Gilbo said.

Actualy, the thing to do with IE is alter it so that it is incapable of connecting to any website that is not in a hard-coded list that you can't crak into. On that list, by default, there would be:

* www.windowsupdate.com

That's it. End of list. Nothing else.

There would also be a mini-application that knows how to alter the list, which can only be run from the command line. Clueless morons can't cope with command lines, but if you have a slight clue, you could type something like:

* ADDTOIELIST housecall.trendmicro.com

Obviously, there would need to be some thought go into making that command-line tool secure and practical.

(In the real world, if Microsoft ever did something like this, which they wouldn't, they would have the list include hotmail, yahoo, msn, disney, amazon, and probably XXXXsextoys.)

 

[Mercutio]

Er.. if you use BITS to get your windows updates, you don't really need IE any more at all.

 

[timwhit]

Er.. if you use BITS to get your windows updates, you don't really need IE any more at all.

What is this BITS you speak of?

 

[Groltz]

Background Intelligent Transfer Service

--I think

 

[LunarMist]

$50 for any browser should be enough.

 

[iGary]

Background Intelligent Transfer Service

--I think

Close!

• 
  Billgates
  
  Autonomic
  
  Communication
  
  Over
  
  Network
  
  Background
  
  Intelligent
  
  Transfer
  
  Service

 

[Groltz]

Browser speed comparison page. Includes Mac and Linux entries.

http://www.howtocreate.co.uk/browserSpeed.html