Pope Hangs It Up?
- Thread starter LunarMist
- Start date
Mercutio
Fatwah on Western Digital
My guess is somebody has proof Ratzy diddled a kid himself.
CougTek
Hairy Aussie
I hope so. Last time it happened was in the XV century, around the same time Christopher Colombus (re)discovered America.
timwhit
Hairy Aussie
Don't assume too much.
ddrueding
Fixture
I'm with Merc on this one. Or at the very least that expose on him (mea maxima culpa) is getting ready to take another swing.
Fun fact: he doesn't have a drivers license, but has a helicopter license.
Fun fact: he doesn't have a drivers license, but has a helicopter license.
Mercutio
Fatwah on Western Digital
I also listened to Marketplace last night. 
ddrueding
Fixture
Mercutio
Fatwah on Western Digital
Colbert actually did some pretty interesting stuff with that last night as well. His guest was particularly interesting: a person who says he's a practicing Catholic who wants the notion of clergy to be abolished.
Religious people are weird.
Religious people are weird.
ddrueding
Fixture
Indeed. I suspect it has to do with the mental gymnastics required to hold both sane and really silly ideas in your head at the same time.
Mercutio
Fatwah on Western Digital
I find faith to be perversely admirable in people I suspect are otherwise intelligent and rational. At the same time, I also think that for the vast majority of believers, faith is the result of youthful brainwashing or a weak-minded reaction to a troubled life. I can't conclude the same things as someone who has examined their beliefs in a critical and intellectual fashion and still finds a place for their religious practices, but thought on any topic in a critical and intellectual matter is perhaps admirable regardless.
jtr1962
Storage? I am Storage!
I think "youthful brainwashing" is the major reason why religion persists. I wonder how many people would willingly believe in some faith after an upbringing which included reasoning skills and problem solving? My guess is not many.
I think all forms of clergy and organized religion (as well as religious proselytization to minors) have little place in a modern society. If people want to believe in a diety or dieties, nothing is stopping them. At their core, most religions have the diety as an all powerful, all seeing being. In that context, clergy and places of worship serve little function beyond their own self-perpetuation.
My own personal take on this: "Religions have people doing things which in any other context would grounds for involuntary commitment."
And yes, I also find something perversely admirable about faith in otherwise rational people. Maybe it's the ability of their mind to voluntarily suspend disbelief in the context of worship while at the same time functioning sanely the rest of the time. I know if I tried believing in any deity, it would likely take over the rest of my life, to the point I would be mumbling incoherently most of the time, and seeing every minor event as a sign from the gods.
I think all forms of clergy and organized religion (as well as religious proselytization to minors) have little place in a modern society. If people want to believe in a diety or dieties, nothing is stopping them. At their core, most religions have the diety as an all powerful, all seeing being. In that context, clergy and places of worship serve little function beyond their own self-perpetuation.
My own personal take on this: "Religions have people doing things which in any other context would grounds for involuntary commitment."
And yes, I also find something perversely admirable about faith in otherwise rational people. Maybe it's the ability of their mind to voluntarily suspend disbelief in the context of worship while at the same time functioning sanely the rest of the time. I know if I tried believing in any deity, it would likely take over the rest of my life, to the point I would be mumbling incoherently most of the time, and seeing every minor event as a sign from the gods.
CougTek
Hairy Aussie
I would really like to be able to believe in a religion and that my existence would continue after my physical death. Unfortunately, I can't. Knowing that I'll vanish forever in a few decades and that there's nothing I can do to change this is a living Hell.
Death is the worst part of living.
Death is the worst part of living.
I try not to volunteer my religious beliefs for they tend to be offensive to those that have faith.
I have no problem with the Pope's resignation based on age related infirmities. If his health makes him no longer capable, according to his judgement, to do what the job demands then why would any catholic (the only ones that it should matter to) want to keep him?
I have no problem with the Pope's resignation based on age related infirmities. If his health makes him no longer capable, according to his judgement, to do what the job demands then why would any catholic (the only ones that it should matter to) want to keep him?
The last pope to retire did so in 1415, 598 years ago.
Or perhaps proof that he knew about the child abuse YEARS before it came out.
...or...
That Judgment Day is quickly approaching.
My god, we just survived the end of the Mayan long-count calendar......now this!!!!!
CougTek
Hairy Aussie
Also, it is annoying that more than four coffees per day is supposed to be bad for your health, because even though it is 11p.m. and I've already taken four, I'd really like another one right now.
ddrueding
Fixture
jtr1962
Storage? I am Storage!
There might well be hope for you (and me). The longer we can hang on, the more likely there will be advances to keep us from dying. It might go something like this: Live to 90, maybe science then will cure you of something which might have killed you, allowing you to live another decade. When it's your time again, perhaps medical science will extend your life yet again a few years. Sooner or later you'll be alive in a time when we can turn back the clock, and you'll be 20 physiologically (or whatever age you choose) essentially forever. Accidents might still kill people, but just living won't. I read somewhere that it's entirely possible most of the people under 40 now will be alive for hundreds or even thousands of years. Same thing for anyone of any age who can manage to hold on another 30 or 40 years.
If you ask me, aging is nearly as bad as dying. People now might live 100 years if they take care of themselves, but generally you look and feel like crap for at least half of those years.
mubs
Storage? I am Storage!
Right; be careful what you wish for!
Not dying could be a curse too. In some scriptural epics (in my culture), the very very good are blessed with eternal life (I suppose in a good way), and some very bad ones damned to eternal life. The latter wish to die and end it all, but can't.
The most immediate problem may be that all those one know may die off, leaving one without family & friends. This could happen because they may not wish to continue living or may have a condition that is not treatable.
At the rate the current population is exploding, it is not inconceivable we may end up in a Soylent Green or Logan's Run type of situation if people don't die.
Not dying could be a curse too. In some scriptural epics (in my culture), the very very good are blessed with eternal life (I suppose in a good way), and some very bad ones damned to eternal life. The latter wish to die and end it all, but can't.
The most immediate problem may be that all those one know may die off, leaving one without family & friends. This could happen because they may not wish to continue living or may have a condition that is not treatable.
At the rate the current population is exploding, it is not inconceivable we may end up in a Soylent Green or Logan's Run type of situation if people don't die.
Tannin
Storage? I am Storage!
Correct! I am the living proof of it. It might surprise you to learn this, but I used to feel bad and look like crap until I turned 40. Since then, of course, I have got better in every way.
Stereodude
Not really a
I'm not sure what you think that link proves. A few lawyers alleging some far reaching conspiracy with absurd claims does not a smoking gun make. You and Merc alleged something very specific and you reference the existence of a few pot stirring lawyers with an axe to grind as proof. I'm not sure your bias could be any more blatant.
"Two German lawyers, Christian Sailer and Gert-Joachim Hetzel from the Pope's home state of Bavaria, have submitted a 16,500-word document indicting the Pope for various crimes against humanity."
"The charges allege that Pope Benedict preserved and directed an institution responsible for the coercion, extortion and subjugation of its members. Specific charges include endangering members health by forbidding the use of condoms..."
Mercutio
Fatwah on Western Digital
Any person in the catholic priesthood at the diocese level or higher has to some degree been complicit in pederasty of some form.
fb
Storage is cool
Perhaps the catholic church should just let their priests get married? That way they could do their wives instead of the altar boys or the females in the parish.
jtr1962
Storage? I am Storage!
That still might not fix things. The fact that quite a few priests choose altar boys (or girls) when I'm sure they would have some willing adult females in their parish (or perhaps males if they float that way) tells me they're pedophiles. The big problem with this (besides the fact that society generally frowns on it) is marriage by definition wouldn't work. The church frowns on divorce, yet a pedophile priest would need to get divorced and remarried every few years as his child spouse moved towards adulthood. That's assuming of course society allowed marriages to people well under the age of consent in the first place. The only conceivable way marriage could even work would be if there were some way to keep the priest's partner physiologically five or seven or whatever age the priest happens to like. And this may well one day be possible, but I doubt anyone would willingly want to live out their lives in a child's body, at least a very young child. Maybe give the priests little boy or girl robots instead and let the church condone sexual relations. Frankly, I can't think of any other way to fix this that isn't full of all sorts of legal and moral dilemmas.
jtr1962
Storage? I am Storage!
I've thought about this a lot. A simple solution to the entire overpopulation issue is that you don't have any more children in exchange for immortality (perhaps making you sterile will be part of the process). That would keep you from increasing the world's population from the time you become immortal. The only downside I see to any of this is as you said-if some of your friends or family members don't wish to join you. The beauty of living essentially forever is that it opens the human race to colonizing other solar systems to prevent running out of resources here. It doesn't matter if it might take decades or even centuries to travel to a new home when all you have is time on your hands. Besides, when you count the asteroids I think we have enough resources to sustain upwards of 1 trillion people right here on Earth. If we change the climate on most of the currently uninhabitable parts of the planet it wouldn't even be all that crowded.
That way they can create their own children to abuse. Sexual abusers are going to abuse regardless of marital status unless you make it not a crime and allow them to marry their preference of young pre-pubescent children. It is not a question of celibacy.
To my knowledge the only way to diminish sexual abuse of children is to prevent the abusers access to children. Even intensive treatment of abusers has a very limited benefit. Science just does no know how to change a persons basic sexual preferences.
The problem with the catholic church and abuse is that the hierarchy did not remove child access to those they knew or suspected abused children rather they just moved them to a different jurisdiction from any complainers. The result is that the abuser continued abusing just with different children. Spreading the joy, so to speak.
I would argue that the current Catholic hierarchy reacts significantly different than historically. They may learn slowly, but they do learn eventually under the threat of financial collapse.
jtr1962
Storage? I am Storage!
Hence my suggestion of child robots to allow them to get their rocks off. A lot of these priests might otherwise be perfectly upstanding and valuable members of society if not for their sexual preferences. They just need a socially acceptable outlet for them. And the church needs to get over the notion that priests must remain celibate. Regardless of sexual preference, fighting biology is a losing battle.
fb
Storage is cool
Most religions should be updated. It's been a while since the Bible and Quran was written and the world has changed a bit in the last 1500-2000 years.
I don't think the catholic church is the only place where you find pedophiles, you'll probably find them in situations where they train or work with kids. We've had a few cases with sport coaches for example. You can be pretty sure that I wouldn't want a pedophile to train my son even if he got a f*ck-robot at home. First they should get treatment and then they shouldn't be to much around children.
Modern society fights basic biology all the time. The whole health care system is devoted to doing just that. For those that do not believe in fighting biology, I give the gift of a 35 year lifespan.
CougTek
Hairy Aussie
So this would be a 3-members forum : Timwhit, Blackerwry and Ddrueding. Maybe fb too. All the others I'm awared off would be R.I.P.
fb
Storage is cool
The problem with that reasoning is that we, just like any other animal on this planet, only exists to reproduce. Our children are smarter than us and their children will be even more intelligent. The upside with living for 1000 years is that we'd have pretty much experience, but we would probably be inferior in every other way to someone whose ancestors have gone through the normal cycles of life.
fb
Storage is cool
I'm only 13 mentally, physically I'm almost 40.
jtr1962
Storage? I am Storage!
That's not really what I meant here. Yes, society requires people to fight basic biological urges where a man might want to screw an attractive woman he sees on the street right then and there but you can't suppress those kinds of things for years the way the Church's vow of celibacy requires (unless you want Eunuch priests).
Also, for what it's worth, we haven't done all that well fighting basic biology when it comes to improving lifespans. The 35 year lifespan you mention was mostly a result of dying young due to war, famine, or disease. Even in ancient times, when one lived a life free of those things, you might live 60 or 70 years, perhaps even into your 80s or 90s if you were really lucky. Modern medicine has yet to do anything to actually significantly prolong lifespans beyond the basic century or so biological limit. All it's done is cure some things which otherwise would have killed us before we lived long enough to wear out our major organs. This typically will happen at 100 to 110 years of age for most people. If you look at the causes of death of people who die younger than that, it will be things like cancer, heart disease, stroke, accidents, etc.
jtr1962
Storage? I am Storage!
Yes and no. You're going on the assumption that any genetic improvements allowing "immortality" couldn't also be accompanied by other changes. Also, on an evolutionary time scale 1000 years is really short. I doubt people who are born 1000 years from now would significantly differ from someone from today who lives 1000 years. When we exume bodies even from 5000 years ago, they're not really significantly different than people today. I personally feel if humans evolve naturally we'll look like Roswell aliens in about 100,000 years-large heads, small bodies and limbs, no body hair, perhaps even the ability to communicate telepathically.
fb
Storage is cool
All I know is that I would get bored if I lived for 1000 years. The only upside would be that I could have a realistic chance to save money for an Ferrari F40.
But look at the sharks, they live for 20-30 years, and they have been around for >400 million years. I think the ideal lifespan depends mostly on parameters like physical size and so on. Of course, we are top predators and live quite comfortably, so we have a pretty good chance to reach our potential maximum age.
While we're on the subject of evolution, I feel the urge to link to this old article from the Onion, we might have peaked.
Eons Of Darwinian Evolution Somehow Produce Mitch
But look at the sharks, they live for 20-30 years, and they have been around for >400 million years. I think the ideal lifespan depends mostly on parameters like physical size and so on. Of course, we are top predators and live quite comfortably, so we have a pretty good chance to reach our potential maximum age.
While we're on the subject of evolution, I feel the urge to link to this old article from the Onion, we might have peaked.
Eons Of Darwinian Evolution Somehow Produce Mitch