Prospective Semi-High-End Budget Build

[Newtun]

Hello, storag-ers.

I'm considering the components for a new PC build in a couple of months. Primary usage would be the World Community Grid Help Conquer Cancer project, and taking over as my utility PC (browsing, E-mail, Open Office) from my current WCG-HCC box (Gigabyte 965P mobo, Core2 E5200 @ 3.5 GHz). I would welcome any gentle suggestions for this.

OS would be Ubuntu, as on the "old" box.

Components:

• Core i5-2500K (hope to OC to 3.5-4.? GHz)
• Gigabyte P67 motherboard (UD3/4)
• Corsair Hydro H50 CPU cooler (on sale [this week?] for $60 at Best Buy)
• Antec NSK 4482 Case w/ EarthWatts 380 watt Power Supply
• 2 4-GB DDR3 DIMMs (1600 MHz?)
• 2 7200-RPM SATA hard drives
• GeForce GT 430 video card (?)

The H50 self-contained water-cooling unit seems to get good reviews, and the CPU part is a lot less heavy and large than the CoolerMaster Hyper 212+ I was originally considering. One "negative" mentioned a few times is that Corsair's install instructions for the case-fan replacement "radiator" specifies that the fan should pull outside air into the case. But I've seen recommendations here for that kind of "positive pressure" case-fan arrangement.

I considered one of the Seagate "hybrid" hard drives as the boot/OS/SW drive, but saw some reports of issues with those Momentus XT's and MacOS X. So I thought it might be better to increase my original RAM spec from 4 to 8 GB for RAM caching rather than flash caching.

I was looking at the GT 4x0 video cards, in case the WCG-HCC project starts to get GPU work-units, though I could use it for other distributed-computing projects in the interim.

Thank you for your kind consideration.

 

[Stereodude]

My first suggestion would be don't upgrade. My second suggestion would be to save $30 and get the Hyper 212+ instead. The H50 probably doesn't perform any better.

 

[LunarMist]

I would upgrade, but also use air cooling. A decent SSD (Sadforce) helps a lot more than a hybrid.

 

[ddrueding]

I would probably just image to an SSD and keep the rest of the system intact.

 

[MaxBurn]

What is that current system not doing that you want? I would also just keep that and add SSD.

I think there is a newer corsair water cooler now.

 

[Newtun]

Thanks for your responses. I had my qualms about the Hydro H50, and introducing liquid into a PC (other than caps :-D), so I'll probably go with air cooling.

An SSD would blow about ⅓ of my budget, so I can't realistically consider one. I'm hoping that 8 GB of RAM would help cache a fair amount of disk.

I'm considering this build to add 2½+ times the cancer research results of my current main PC. The prospective new PC would also replace my 8-year-old Athlon XP PC, which is starting to show signs of wear, on my 4-way KVM.

 

[time]

If you're not going to install huge software like games, you should be able to make do with a 60GB SSD as your boot drive. Newegg has G.Skill for $118, Corsair and Patriot for $130 - all Sandforce drives.

I just had a quick browse of the WCG-HCC forums. Given it's one of the few things that seems to be able to use hyperthreading effectively (1.56x), wouldn't you be far better off stretching to an i7-2600K rather than an i5-2500K?

A Phenom X6 is a cheaper alternative, slightly faster than the i5 for what you want (depending on the degree of overclocking success in each case).

 

[CougTek]

If the WCG is anything like the F@h project, then I strongly second Time's suggestion of jumping to a 2600K instead of the 2500K. I don't think there's such a thing as "big units" for the WCG, but still, eight core (even if four are virtual) versus four should make quite a leap in total production. That would also give you additional core for running VMs and perform other tasks that might otherwise slow down your system more rapidly.

If distributed computing is your main goal, cut anywhere else and put everything you can on the CPU. And don't waste money on DDR3 1600MHz for a Core 2x00. They don't get much benefit from anything above 1333MHz. The "K" models are unlocked, so increase the multiplier if you want to OC.

 

[Newtun]

Thanks for your kind responses so far, all. In the interim, the emphasis has shifted more strongly to the "budget" part of this subject - I recently quit my job, and I'm looking for another, so far without success.

So the extra $100 for the 2600K over the 2500K is currently too rich for my blood. I also am of the opinion that an AMD x6 would not yield more results than an OC'ed 2500K (though I might pose that question in the WCG forums). As an AMD fan, I regret this conclusion, but the x6 might also require more power, which may be another issue (see below).

And for the price of a "small" SSD, I could get 2 good-sized 7200-rpm hard drives, one (300 GB?) for the OS and low-usage partitions, the other (500-1000 GB) for the swap and /home ones. And I'm still not convinced of the long-term reliability of SSDs anyway.

I'm probably going to have to wait a month or so for the new version of Ubuntu (with the Unity shell :-?), since I don't believe the current 10.10 version supports Sandy Bridge.

Here are my currently envisioned components:

• Antec NSK 4482 Mid Tower Computer Case + 380W Earthwatts Green Power Supply
• BIOSTAR TP67B+ P67 Motherboard
• Intel 2500K CPU
• SPARKLE SXT4301024S3LNM GeForce GT 430 Video Card
• Mushkin Enhanced Silverline 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3 1333 Memory
• COOLER MASTER Hyper 212 Plus

This totals to about $650.

An alternative to the 4482 case would be the Antec Three Hundred + BP430 combo, for about the same price, with a 430 watt power supply (but not green or earth-y). Running the Antec Power Supply Calculator, using 100% CPU utilization at 4.5 GHz and 1.5 Vcore, and 90% load on the other components, I get 377 watts, so I don't know if 380 watts would suffice, no matter how green they are.

The Biostar mobo seems to get decent user reviews at Newegg, and I do like the (legacy) 2-ps2 setup, since my old KVM switch is ps2/VGA. Some of the other mobos only have 1 ps2 connector, and I don't know if I can trust a ps2-to-USB converter.

 

[ddrueding]

I have a few of those Three Hundreds with the 430W PS; easy case to work with, looks good, no complaints.

 

[BingBangBop]

Considering your choice of video card, I would go for the onboard video version of the Sandy bridge and save that money. I would also use the retail heatsink and fan rather than the Coolmaster and save that money. That should save you $100 which would enable you to get the 2600K which is a much better processor for distributed computing in the long run.

Further, there is nothing stopping you from getting a much better video card when you finances are better and when your distributed-computing project of choice starts using GPGPU's.

Also, the processor's cooling system can be upgraded, at a later time, when you feel that you need to OC and can afford it. From an upgrading perspective It is cheaper, in the long run, to upgrade the cooling system than upgrade the processor. The 2600K is a doubling of the number of cores which is a 100% increase in speed and that is better than you will get from OC'ing

 

[Newtun]

I would go for the onboard video version of the Sandy bridge and save that money. I would also use the retail heatsink and fan rather than the Coolmaster and save that money. That should save you $100 which would enable you to get the 2600K which is a much better processor for distributed computing in the long run. . . The 2600K is a doubling of the number of cores which is a 100% increase in speed and that is better than you will get from OC'ing

That is indeed an interesting alternative, Bing. But we know it's not really a doubling of the cores, just a hyper-ing of the threads. The effect on WCG HCC may be somewhat difficult to quantify; the Re: i5 2500K or i7 2600K? post in the WCG forums claims "up to 25% greater throughput using HT", but that is for the older generation i7s, I believe. It may depend on the the particular BOINC project. OTOH, I've seen 2500K overclocks to 4.2, 4.5, 4.8, even 5 GHz; respectively, "sure" throughput increases of 27%, 36%, 45% or even 52%. Or compared to the 2600K's default clock speed, 24%, 32%, 41% or 47%.

But also, there is the thrill (and the risk) of the overclock. Your proposal would be conservative and safe (subject to the below caveat), but not as much fun. :-D

As far as the onboard video, though, I don't know how well Ubuntu 11.4 will support it, or whether there will be "proprietary" Intel drivers. I'm reasonably sure that 11.4 will have an Nvidia driver version that will support the GT 430; Ubuntu 10.10 has a version about a month earlier than 260.19.21, which does support the 430.

Also, the processor's cooling system can be upgraded, at a later time, when you feel that you need to OC and can afford it.

The currently available "consumer" SB chipsets are divided into H61/H67, which can use the CPUs' onboard graphics but cannot overclock the unlocked CPUs by multiplier adjustment, and the P67, which cannot use the onboard graphics but can OC by multiplier adjustment. The coming Z68 chipset can do both, presumably at a price premium. (FSB overclocking seems to be extremely limited for Sandy Bridge.)

Thanks for your suggestions, Mr. Bop!

 

[Chewy509]

As far as the onboard video, though, I don't know how well Ubuntu 11.4 will support it, or whether there will be "proprietary" Intel drivers.

The magic ingredients for SB onboard video are:
Linux 2.6.37+ ,
Mesa 7.10, and
xf86-video-intel 2.14.0.

or newer...

Unknown if 11.4 will have those included? (One would hope so).

PS. This will be of interest if consider SB video in the interim: http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=intel_sandy_speed&num=2

 

[Newtun]

PS. This will be of interest if consider SB video in the interim: http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=intel_sandy_speed&num=2

Thanks, Chewy, that article is "interesting": "using a P67 motherboard with a discrete graphics card, Ubuntu 10.10 or any other modern distribution should work just fine."

Oh, good, I can order my parts right now and build the box next week, while I wait for the numerous job offers to flow into my inboxes. Then put the PC together, and maybe find that "should"~="does", and I have a OS-less box upon which to try to test all the components. But then, I could always buy Window$. ;-)

OTOH,

"the exact cause of the Sandy Bridge Linux graphics motherboard issue is not known let alone resolved."

So maybe I won't try to rely on the onboard graphics.

And I just checked on the guest PC in my spare bedroom, and the Nvidia drivers in Ubuntu 10.10 are still not up to the level to support the GT 430.

So maybe I'll wait a bit longer. Thanks again, all.