Psst, Tannin, Safari comes to M$, the browser for the rest of us

udaman

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Simmer down folks, it's just beta right now, but you are of course going to buy into the reality distortion field™ of Steve-O, are you not?

don't forget to d/l the Windows plug-ins for Sarfari (link @bottom pg).

D/L link: http://www.apple.com/safari/download/

http://www.macnn.com/articles/07/06/11/safari.windows/

Well I don't have Tiger 10.4 (Macintosh Requirements

  • Mac OS X v10.4.9 or later,
  • Windows Requirements
  • Windows XP or Vista
  • At least 256MB of RAM
  • 500Mhz Pentium-class processor or better
  • )
, so I'm waiting for the Oct release of Leopard (OSX10.5). Though I have no idea why anyone would want Safari for M$ XP/Vista, as to quote a familiar 'opinion' on SF, "the GUI of M$'s OS is 'horrible'" ;)

http://www.thinksecret.com/news/0706safari3.html
During his Worldwide Developers Conference keynote Monday, Apple CEO Steve Jobs officially announced the company's intentions to release Safari 3 for Mac OS X and Windows XP/Vista.

The announcement proved to be the only real surprise at WWDC, although previously unseen features of the forthcoming Mac OS X 10.5 Leopard captured much of the attention as well, in particular new interface elements in the Finder.

Apple claims Safari 3 is twice as faster as Internet Explorer 7 on Windows, and 1.6 times faster than Firefox 2. Safari 3 is available as a free public beta today.

quoting Steve:

"

11:11 amwhat we've got here is the most innovative browser in the world, but also the fastest browser on windows11:11 amjavascript: ie 2.4 sec, ff 1.6, saf 0.911:10 am"how good are we at bringing apps to windows?""
Firefox sucks.

Opera and Mozilla both eat it. If there was no Moz and no Opera either, well, the dumbed-down "I'm a clueless moron but not quite as clueless as the ultramorons still using Internet Explorer" interface would bug me, but at least it would be better than Explorer.

As a modern web browser, it's third best out of three. But I'll try 1.5. Who knows, someone might have fixed it up a bit.

In other browser news, Mac friendly Google is in a fit with M$ Vista:

http://www.electronista.com/articles/07/06/11/google.action.on.vista/

Google takes legal action against Vista search
Google has accused Microsoft of anti-competitive behavior with its search tools, according to a new complaint revealed by the New York Times. The complaint, linked closely with a consent decree for Microsoft, charges Windows [COLOR=red ! important][FONT=&quot][COLOR=red ! important][FONT=&quot]Vista's[/FONT][/FONT][/COLOR][/COLOR] system-wide search service with arbitrarily hurting Google Desktop Search. Users who run the latter on Vista frequently encounter a significant slowdown since the Vista search can't be turned off. This discourages most users from staying with the Google option, the company says. The implementation is said to violate the 2002 antitrust agreement that ultimately forced Microsoft to allow rival web browsers and other programs to be set as the factory default for [COLOR=red ! important][FONT=&quot][COLOR=red ! important][FONT=&quot]new [/FONT][COLOR=red ! important][FONT=&quot]PCs[/FONT][/COLOR][/FONT][/COLOR][/COLOR]. The legal challenge has encountered setbacks, according to the paper. Federal assistant attorney general Thomas Barnett issued a statement in May dismissing Google's claim, arguing that antitrust law wasn't there to "pick who would win" and that the government was not meant to stop companies from "innovating and improving" their products.....
 

timwhit

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Thanks for letting us know. I have downloaded the Beta and will install shortly.

This will make testing websites a lot easier.
 

Mercutio

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... until you find out that Safari is built on a different codebase or something, just leading to yet another browser to test against.
 

timwhit

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Yes, I thought of that. But, they released the OSX and Windows version of this at the same time, so I am thinking that it is the same codebase.

If someone has better/real information please let me know.
 

Mercutio

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Answer:
Any web developer who has to check site compatibility with 20 different browsers and versions of browsers.
 

Stereodude

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But is it even clear that the two are really the same? I wouldn't be so sure that they're identical in functionality.
 

timwhit

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I will find out the next time I find a rendering error in Safari on the Mac. If I can duplicate it on the PC version, then that is one error that is testable.
 

sechs

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I've been told (haven't yet bothered to check) that Safari has really poor font rendering. True?

So, other than Maclovers stuck on Windows and web developers, who is going to use Safari fer Winders?
 

Mercutio

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Safari for Windows ignores your installed fonts and uses its own (Apple-created) instead.

Also, it's supposed to be pretty piggy with RAM, even worse than Firefox is.
 

ddrueding

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I found it interesting how many vulnerabilities were found within hours of it's release. Good thing these guys don't write other software for PCs...uh, wait...;)
 

fb

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I'll take a look at it when they release the final version. Apparently this version crashes faster then any other browser on earth.
 

Adcadet

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Didn't Merc have some rule about not running any PC software written by Apple?

I wish regular old Konc was available for PC.
 

Mercutio

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Yes I do.

Apple insists on re-creating its UI on Windows and as a result all of Apples apps are at the very best ill behaved, and at worst, completely broken and stupid.

iTunes is the only app that looks and works like iTunes, and I've never seen a single program break in so many different ways as iTunes breaks.
 

Wavemaker

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First heard about Apple releasing Safari for Windows yesterday on the *radio* (of all places).

Today, I heard from a web developer "guru" of sorts (a person I know) who has the new Safari beta installed on both Mac and Windows Vista. He sez that the Windows (Vista) beta version seems -- at this point in time -- to be a little quicker than the Mac beta version running on OS X 10.4. And yes, both versions crash.


Mercutio said:
Apple insists on re-creating its UI on Windows and as a result all of Apples apps are at the very best ill behaved, and at worst, completely broken and stupid.

I believe Apple finally gave up on the "develop on the Macintosh and port to Windoze" method of writing software for Windows. They would often use Code Warrior as a coding platform.

Since then, Apple has developed proprietary user interface libraries for writing native Windows applications on Windows coding platforms. The end result is Windows applications that look and act similarly to Macintosh applications. Apple has likely taken coding a bit further and developed some core application objects (code) that are cross-platform compilable.

Talking to people over the years who have worked with parallel Win/Mac development and application porting, I have been told on many occasions that when they wrote compilable C++ routines for Macintosh -- code that could in theory compile also on Windows -- that the Windows compiler (Microsoft, Intel, Watcom) would catch coding problems that their Macintosh compiler would not catch. Often, the result was that they would catch and correct previously unknown (to them) coding problems that had bugged them -- sometimes for years -- on the Macintosh, with the result being more stable Macintosh applications after the code fix. So, you could say that Windows helped the Macintosh.



 

udaman

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First heard about Apple releasing Safari for Windows yesterday on the *radio* (of all places).

Today, I heard from a web developer "guru" of sorts (a person I know) who has the new Safari beta installed on both Mac and Windows Vista. He sez that the Windows (Vista) beta version seems -- at this point in time -- to be a little quicker than the Mac beta version running on OS X 10.4. And yes, both versions crash.


Mercutio said:
Apple insists on re-creating its UI on Windows and as a result all of Apples apps are at the very best ill behaved, and at worst, completely broken and stupid.



I believe Apple finally gave up on the "develop on the Macintosh and port to Windoze" method of writing software for Windows. They would often use Code Warrior as a coding platform.

Since then, Apple has developed proprietary user interface libraries for writing native Windows applications on Windows coding platforms. The end result is Windows applications that look and act similarly to Macintosh applications. Apple has likely taken coding a bit further and developed some core application objects (code) that are cross-platform compilable.

Talking to people over the years who have worked with parallel Win/Mac development and application porting, I have been told on many occasions that when they wrote compilable C++ routines for Macintosh -- code that could in theory compile also on Windows -- that the Windows compiler (Microsoft, Intel, Watcom) would catch coding problems that their Macintosh compiler would not catch. Often, the result was that they would catch and correct previously unknown (to them) coding problems that had bugged them -- sometimes for years -- on the Macintosh, with the result being more stable Macintosh applications after the code fix. So, you could say that Windows helped the Macintosh.
Interesting note...Splash ;), now if only M$ would stop trying to impose their 'greatnest' of innovation, and using non-standard HTML compliant coding for IE, then maybe more webpages would display correctly under more browsers...stupid IE UI. I still like IE's printer engine (flawed as it is, far better than any other, including the OS'es themselves...competing web browsers would do well to emulate or improve on IE's preview window as best in class) better than any other, and whenever I need to print a page, I'll alwasy start up IE to use that.

Umm, Merc, try reading my original post...beta, beta, beta (or if you like Merc, alpha, if it will make you rant less ;) ). Beta v. 3.01 has been issued already, and you'd expect many more of these before the finally shipping version goes into MacOXS 10.5 in October. No Apple insists on keeping a uniform UI for all of it's product lines (note--- iPhone uses Safari = many Windows users, will end up using Safari, whether they like it or not, hah!), even if that means you have to put up with it on your more familiar 'stupid' Winblows UI, which is merely a 2nd rate copy of Apple's GUI anyway, lol.

BTW, I don't really care for the FF UI, nor do I use it's 'features' like the drag N drop to the side/history recall etc. Some people who haven't used it enough, aren't used to the ways to make bookmarks under Safari, as is obvious by the review here:



http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20070612-afirst-look-safari-3-on-windows.html



http://www.computerworld.com/action...ewArticleBasic&articleId=9024769&pageNumber=3
Despite some beta hiccups, various reviews have confirmed one consistent fact: Safari is fast. Very fast. Apple says this browser renders HTML twice as fast as Internet Explorer 7 and 1.6 times faster than Firefox 2. I didn't benchmark it, but I can say it is indeed faster than either one. Javascript also shows obvious speed increases. (To drive this point home, Jobs even displayed a demo of how quickly Safari opens pages at WWDC. Speed was a major emphasis when it came to Safari.)
So what do we have? A free, speedy Mac-developed browser for Windows users. That's the what. As for the why, step back, see the pieces and how they fit together.
As I watched Jobs' speech again and tinkered with Safari, I realized Apple hadn't just ported over Safari willy-nilly; Apple had to port everything that makes it run, and that meant WebKit. For those who don't know, WebKit is the application framework that allows for developers to quickly access the Web on their Mac OS X application. An obvious example would be Safari, but a slew of apps use WebKit, including Mail, BBEdit, Coda and the iTunes Music Store. A quick glance at webkit.org confirmed that a Windows version of the open-source project has recently been seeded. Hmmmm. Jobs also mentioned that there are three versions of Safari: one for Mac OS X, one for XP and one for Vista. What he neglected to detail is the fourth version of Safari: the one for the iPhone. After the Safari-on-Windows announcement, Jobs moved to a demonstration of Web apps in the iPhone version of Safari. For that demo, Jobs showed that the full Safari engine is in the iPhone, which enables Web applications written in the language of Web 2.0 with AJAX to integrate with iPhone's services. Scott Forstall showed off an example of a Web-based contact application (which accessed an LDAP database on the back end) whose appearance and usability was nearly identical to the Contact application on the phone. From the demo, Forstall showed that the iPhone Safari speed was very responsive, loading each page quickly.
Soon after the keynote ended, the first third-party application for the iPhone appeared: OneTrip. This simple shopping application -- plus the Forstall demonstration -- gives you an idea of how straight-forward using Web apps are with the iPhone -- and why opening up WebKit and Safari to Windows users and developers is important. It makes it easy for developers to write apps using Safari as the platform. With Safari now ported to Windows, that means the same application could work on both Macs and PCs -- nearly 100% of the market!
That's what's in it for developers. For more mainstream users, who care only about being able to surf to their favorite site, Safari represents another move by Apple to get its highly touted software in front of people who may never have heard of Safari, much less tried out Apple's other apps or hardware. Woo them with a few well-crafted programs such as Safari or iTunes, and -- Jobs no doubt hopes -- you can win them to the operating system itself.
And when Apple puts that same well-crafted app -- Safari -- on what may be the hottest must-have device of the year, the iPhone, it reinforces the big-picture message: Apple suddenly seems to be everywhere. Sure, you can buy a Mac and get the whole Apple experience. But now you can get an iPhone and get the same kind of experience. Or fire up your Apple TV and get the same experience on your TV. And now, with the release of the one application virtually everyone online uses -- a browser -- you can fire up Windows and get the Apple experience.
I think I'll agree with this post:

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=313371&page=3


It is naive and/or unreasonable to expect Windows users to be forgiving of a buggy beta, especially a beta of a browser that's new to your operating system. You don't want to mess up your system with a program that crashes, does other weird things, or (if you've read the news) is not really as secure as it was made out to be. Some isolated problems here and there might be tolerated (by people who understand "beta"), but not major issues.

It is also simply dishonest for anyone who knows anything about betas to dismiss the whining of dissatisfied users by saying things like "shut up, it's a beta stupid." You know full well that beta has become an extremely loosely used term these days. Gmail is still beta. Beta can refer to something that is nearly ready for final release, or something still months away from completion. Especially if you're going to brag about the "world's best browser," you should make sure it's at least a fairly stable beta before making it available to the general public.

I use Safari 2.0.4 every single day and love it. I was excited to hear Safari was going to be on Windows, but it's becoming obvious this beta was a little premature (probably specifically related to the iPhone's imminent release).

I just hope a lot of Windows users don't find out about Safari until a stabler release is available. From all the problems we've heard about the Safari 3.0 beta, you'd hate for them to think a problem-ridden, unsecure browser is "Mac style," otherwise we might see people thinking twice about switching or picking up an iPhone.
 

Santilli

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Apple releasing beta software? I'm shocked they aren't charging 129 dollars for it.

I tried it for about 10 minutes, then thought better of it.
I've despised Apple for the 'OS of the month' upgrade, the constant program upgrade costs, and, the poor quality, nuetered hardware. Other then that, I love Apple...

Dr. Greg
 

Santilli

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Well, now Apple doesn't have any excuse for their sucky software. Just shows they aren't that good at writing software, period.

Dr. G
 

timwhit

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Well, now Apple doesn't have any excuse for their sucky software. Just shows they aren't that good at writing software, period.

Dr. G

I think the major problem with Apple software running on a PC is that Apple always tries to port the UI. If they stuck to the regular Windows UI many of their problems would vanish.
 

udaman

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why use IE8, when you can get S3.1 which is much more, (infinitesimally if you have a FIOS connection) stable & faster :)

http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2008/03/18safari.html

Apple® today introduced Safari™ 3.1, the world’s fastest web browser for Mac® and Windows PCs. Safari loads web pages 1.9 times faster than IE 7 and 1.7 times faster than Firefox 2. Safari also runs JavaScript up to six times faster than other browsers, and is the first browser to support the latest innovative web standards needed to deliver the next generation of highly interactive Web 2.0 experiences*. Safari 3.1 is available immediately as a free download at www.apple.com/safari for both Mac OS® X and Windows. “Safari 3.1 for Mac and Windows is blazingly fast, easy to use and features an elegant user interface,” said Philip Schiller, Apple’s senior vice president of Worldwide Product Marketing. “And best of all, Safari supports the latest audio, video and animation standards for an industry-leading Web 2.0 experience.”
The incredible performance of Safari, combined with its elegant user interface, lets users spend more time surfing the web and less time waiting for pages to load. Safari features an intuitive browsing experience with drag-and-drop bookmarks, easy-to-organize tabs, an integrated Find that shows the number of matches in a page and a built-in RSS reader to quickly scan the latest news and information.
Safari 3.1 is the first browser to support the new video and audio tags in HTML 5 and the first to support CSS Animations. Safari also supports CSS Web Fonts, giving designers limitless choices of fonts to create stunning new web sites.
 

timwhit

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why use IE8, when you can get S3.1 which is much more, (infinitesimally if you have a FIOS connection) stable & faster :)

http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2008/03/18safari.html

Have you ever used Safari on a PC? I have and it sucks.

I don't want to use any IE browser, but I have to make sure my web applications work with all browsers. This means I regularly run 4-5 different browsers at the same time.
 

LiamC

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Udaman, are you a PR/marketer for Apple?


..."Now if I’m going to pull Apple up over anything it’s over the use of iBench. iBench 5.0 is a benchmarking fossil. It was released November 2003 and it’s safe to say that a lot has changed since then, especially as popular websites are now loaded with JavaScripts and make heavy use of AJAX. Benchmarking a modern browser (and OS) with an old tool seems pointless to me and the results should be taken with a liberal pinch of salt."...

http://blogs.zdnet.com/hardware/?p=1536

If you are going to spout PR fluff without any critical thinking applied to what is said, people aren't going to take much notice of what you say.

BTW, the Apples quoted "performance lead" may only last until Firefox 3 ships...
 
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