SSDs - State of the Product?

[MaxBurn]

It matters but I would bet you have the old firmware:

We have been contacted by users with SSD issues after using the firmware upgrade tool (version 1.3) in a Windows 7* 64 bit environment. Intel has replicated the issue on 34nm SSDs (X25-M) and is working on a fix. If users have downloaded 02HA firmware and not upgraded, Intel recommends they do not upgrade until further notice. Intel is pursuing the resolution of this as a high priority. No related issues have been reported by users who have successfully upgraded to 02HA firmware via the firmware upgrade tool (version 1.3).

Operating System:
Windows 7, 64-bit*

This applies to:
Intel® X25-M Solid State Drive, 160GB SATA II 2.5in, MLC, High Performance
Intel® X25-M Solid State Drive, 80GB SATA II 2.5in, MLC, High Performance

http://www.intel.com/support/ssdc/hpssd/sb/CS-031021.htm

 

[CityK]

Anyone seen the generation 2 X18-M SSD available anywhere?

Anyone seen it in Canada?


I have a laptop that runs Windows and I'm upgrading it to Windows 7. I was hoping to switch out the HDD at the same time, since I'm going to reformat anyway. It's not looking like that's going to happen unfortunately?

The X18-M G2 was supposed to be available by now, but I guess the greater than anticipated demand for the X25-M G2 caused them to delay production .

looks like it is gen 1, but if you're interested:
http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820157021

 

[LunarMist]

It matters but I would bet you have the old firmware:

http://www.intel.com/support/ssdc/hpssd/sb/CS-031021.htm

The first and last sentences appear contradictory.

I'm still not clear about

I'm not clear if that only affects drives that already contain data or whether the drive is actually damaged in some way.

In any event, I'm not planning to kill the drive in the first week. The X25M G2 is running XP64 now and was running XP32 before I moved them around yesterday. The drive will obsolete by the time I build a Win7 system.

 

[LunarMist]

Ugh. The reply lost the original quote, but you know what I mean.

 

[Santilli]

Wonder how fast SSD's are going to progress, and, what the speeds are going to be???? Not to mention when are they going to drop in price....

 

[Mercutio]

They're dropping in price already. The speeds are only going to get faster and capacities are only going to get higher. We'll probably end up with "mainstream" MLC drives in our consumer-class products after a couple years. This is a "when", not an "if" situation.

 

[Will Rickards]

I'll agree that capacities will get higher and prices will drop. But I don't think they'll get that much faster. I think the controller chips are pretty good right now. I don't see how they can improve them.

 

[Mercutio]

Memory chips keep getting faster. Transistors keep getting smaller. We will continue to see improvement.

 

[MaxBurn]

I think the major speed advantages are being seen now in the controller chip and how it addresses the memory it is given. Already I understand there is a lot of parallelism taking place in there, sort of like an on drive RAID 0 situation. That's one of the reasons the larger drives are faster, more chips to spread the access across. Intel's 160gb drive recently saw some decent speed increases with that last firmware update, increases that the smaller drive didn't get so you can see there is work behind the scenes every day in how to get the whole parallelism approach faster.

 

[LunarMist]

X25-M Status Update

 

[Handruin]

There is a newegg black Friday deal (posted on facebook) for the Intel G2 drive:

OEM Intel G2 160GB SSD for $414.99 w/ Free Shipping. (Normally $589.99) - Use CODE: BFPEEKSSD160
http://bit.ly/1lUcPE

OEM Intel G2 80GB SSD for $214.99 w/ F...ree Shipping. (Normally $289.99) - Use CODE: BFPEEKSSD80
http://bit.ly/1kjW0M

 

[LunarMist]

Do any of you use the 2.5" to 3.5" HD carriers for SSDs? I'll be traveling in a few weeks and I'd like to bring an X25-E along, but it must be adapted to a trayless standard 3.5" bay on site.

 

[LunarMist]

There is a newegg black Friday deal (posted on facebook) for the Intel G2 drive:

OEM Intel G2 160GB SSD for $414.99 w/ Free Shipping. (Normally $589.99) - Use CODE: BFPEEKSSD160
http://bit.ly/1lUcPE

OEM Intel G2 80GB SSD for $214.99 w/ F...ree Shipping. (Normally $289.99) - Use CODE: BFPEEKSSD80
http://bit.ly/1kjW0M

Yeah, right. :roll: The drives will be out of stock or the price increased or something. Anyway, I'm not so impressed with the X25-M G2. I'll wait for the X25-E G2.

 

[MaxBurn]

I didn't use it but the Icy Dock MB882 that I got with my SSD looks like it should do the 2.5 to 3.5 conversion just fine for you.

 

[Handruin]

Yeah, right. :roll: The drives will be out of stock or the price increased or something. Anyway, I'm not so impressed with the X25-M G2. I'll wait for the X25-E G2.

When I plugged in the code the day I posted this, the price was correct for the 160GB (80GB was out of stock). I don't have a budget or need like yours to justify the E series...I'm reaching for justification just for the M series. It's faster than anything I own right now.

 

[LunarMist]

I'm just being sarcastic, given the original G2 price and availability clusterf*ck.

 

[Bozo]

Something new to drool over.

http://www.pcper.com/article.php?aid=821

 

[ddrueding]

Something new to drool over.

http://www.pcper.com/article.php?aid=821

Meh. They didn't include the most important test (4k random write). I don't think it will be that much better than an Intel drive on that. For a while I went from a pair of 120GB Vertex to four, and the performance difference was essentially zero. Maxing out the RAID controller.

 

[LunarMist]

I don't see the good old X25-E. Maybe some people need 1TB of SSD, but the controllers are limiting the performance. In couple of years we will be buying faster, simpler SATA 3.0 1TB drives like getting a cup of coffee.

 

[udaman]

They're dropping in price already. The speeds are only going to get faster and capacities are only going to get higher. We'll probably end up with "mainstream" MLC drives in our consumer-class products after a couple years. This is a "when", not an "if" situation.

Meh, that's been said for years, hasn't happened yet..."when" indeed. Soon, but how soon is soon? Years if hard disk prices keep going down, and capacity keeps going up...well unless ur hardkor, or an spendy Apple computer user

Memory chips keep getting faster. Transistors keep getting smaller. We will continue to see improvement.

same, been said 4 yrs & yrs.

Meh. They didn't include the most important test (4k random write). I don't think it will be that much better than an Intel drive on that. For a while I went from a pair of 120GB Vertex to four, and the performance difference was essentially zero. Maxing out the RAID controller.

And this is based on facts or "feelings"???

I don't see the good old X25-E. Maybe some people need 1TB of SSD, but the controllers are limiting the performance. In couple of years we will be buying faster, simpler SATA 3.0 1TB drives like getting a cup of coffee.

^I'm sure U know what U mean, but I'm not going to vet that vague statement as it's far too broad in relativity ...and can't understand the obsession peeps have w/Intel .

http://www.storagesearch.com/ssd.html

^remember this link?

Fusion-io Unveils World's Fastest SSD Card

Editor:- November 17, 2009 - Fusion-io today unveiled details of a very fast PCIe form factor, InfiniBand compatible, flash SSD designed for 2 undisclosed government customers.

The ioDrive Octal card, occupies 2 slots and delivers 800,000 IOPS (4k packet size), 6GB/s bandwidth and has upto 5TB maximum capacity (implemented by 8x ioMemory modules.

Each deployment consists of hundreds of terabytes of solid-state storage capacity and is capable of sustaining over one terabyte per second of aggregate bandwidth with access latencies under 50 microseconds.

“We were eager to take on the challenge of creating a device that meets the intense demands of high performance computing" said Steve Wozniak, Chief Scientist at Fusion-io. "With this architecture, IOPS are easy. We achieved over 100 million IOPS, more than enough performance to meet our customer’s requirements. The real power in our architecture was the ability to also scale bandwidth. We look forward to productizing the ioDrive Octal in the future, and bringing the power of this solid-state storage technology from the world of HPC to the enterprise.”

^dats fast, that's hawt (as Paris would say)

Hey, any U old farts know who the Woz is?

Hard Disks Need Not Apply - Google's New SSD Based OS

Editor:- November 19, 2009 - Google opened its doors to developers who want to work with Chrome OS - a new operating system for web notebook products that will ship next year.

In the opening video of the Chrome OS blog we learn that the architects of the new OS are "obsessed with speed". Therefore the new netbook OS is designed from the ground up to support only flash SSDs as the default mass storage. Google says - there is no room in this OS for outmoded 50 year old hard disk technology.

If ya got money to burn, and the need 4 speed, PCIe. Only real usage for SSD's in 2.5in size is for portables, laptops. Desktops are legacy equipment for all u old farts, the younger gen doesn't have that hindrance .

This beats Intel's drives, for much more money, but still <$1k:

http://hothardware.com/Articles/Fusionio-ioXtreme-PCI-Express-SSD-Review/

suppose it depends on your benchmark sw, or uses...as not everyone has the same uses...something Eugene still doesn't get . Therefore one performance metric may not be so important to users, say 4k random writes, as opposed to other measures.

The OCZ Z-Drive m84 256GB gives U good performance @similar price to Fusion, but if you need 256GB vs 80GB, there you have it.

 

[Santilli]

IIRC, 4k is the default NTFS block size, so yes, it's important.

As long as Intel has pretty much a monopoly on drives, we can look back in history to see what kind of pricing they do.

That said, what concerns me was the 94-95 ram price crashing. I remember buying 32 mb of memory for a 540C, for 1300.00.

The following year it was about 100 dollars.

I still can't figure out why one of the major companies hasn't jumped into compete.

AMD should have a few bucks after their settlement.

I think the SSD companies, Intel in particular, are milking this cow for every dime they can get out of it, and, barring competition, there is no reason for them to increase production,
or to put a lot of money in R&D and refab.

 

[Mercutio]

That said, what concerns me was the 94-95 ram price crashing. I remember buying 32 mb of memory for a 540C, for 1300.00.

The following year it was about 100 dollars.

Early adopter's premium. That would've been 72 pin Fast Page RAM. By 1996, the market had moved on to EDO, though 1996 was also a year when RAM prices dipped in a big way, anyway. We've been through those cycles before, but the dawn of the age of the internet was something that sold a LOT of computers, and prices for everything dropped tremendously; that was the year that gave us sub-$1000 desktops. Surely I'm not the only one who remembers this.

I still can't figure out why one of the major companies hasn't jumped into compete. AMD should have a few bucks after their settlement.

$1 billion isn't enough money to start a product line in that space, and besides, AMD is tightly focused on other types of semiconductors. If they take that money and put it into R&D I suspect it'll go toward building better GPU/CPU integration. There is competition in that space, but it's coming from companies that make RAM.

I think the SSD companies, Intel in particular, are milking this cow for every dime they can get out of it, and, barring competition, there is no reason for them to increase production,

There certainly is competition, but the biggest competitors in that space are in many cases Japanese or Korean conglomerates. Intel makes nothing but semiconductors. Samsung makes semiconductors, but they also make dishwashers. At the moment, we're paying a big price for R&D but just like everything else, the drives will eventually hit commodity price points. It's a couple years off.

In the meantime, if you want high performance, you'll be reaching deep into your wallet. Just like it's always been.

 

[Stereodude]

AMD got out of the flash market a while ago. They formed a joint venture with Fujitsu for flash memory called Spansion. So I wouldn't hold your breath for AMD jumping back into that market.

 

[Bozo]

Surely I'm not the only one who remembers this.

I do. Buying video memory for an IBM Aptiva. $300+ for 8Meg? Moving up to a larger hard drive (4GB?) and finding out the BIOS couldn't see it.

Good ol' days?...Bah

 

[Santilli]

4 15k 4.5 gig cheeaths, 2000 dollars.

 

[Fushigi]

$500 for an Apple II "Language Card" that did nothing but add 16K to bump the machine to 64K RAM. 1979-83 timeframe, roughly. The first HD I personally purchased was a 20MB Seagate for $382 sometime around 1987.

As to SSDs, I can afford them but IMO they won't be a worthwhile investment until the price/GB comes down some.

 

[Mercutio]

4 15k 4.5 gig cheeaths, 2000 dollars.

My first SCSI hard drive was a 1760MB Micropolis SCSI-2 drive. It $1200. I believe it was 3600rpm. It was full height and could (but probably didn't) transfer data at 10MB/sec. Three years later I could buy a 2GB IDE drive for $100.

My first 17" Monitor was around $1000. Three years later that same monitor was $200.

Things cost money. New things cost more money. Old things cost less money.

 

[Santilli]

Picked up a

3Ware 9500S-8 8-Port SATA 64-bit PCI-X RAID Card
Item# 220512754812

for hooking up my current SATA drives, and, considering the SSD from Vertex David recommends.

Anyone tried the Transend Pata SSD's for laptops?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820208445

 

[Stereodude]

Jmicron trash, avoid.

 

[Santilli]

Thanks.
I kind of figured that after reading the reviews, but thought I'd check anyway...

 

[LunarMist]

Picked up a

3Ware 9500S-8 8-Port SATA 64-bit PCI-X RAID Card
Item# 220512754812

You are running a server with a PCI-X slot?

 

[LunarMist]

4 15k 4.5 gig cheeaths, 2000 dollars.

That is not to mention the four Maxtor DiamondMax Plus 5120 drives on the Promise RAID. 40GB of dynamite.

 

[Santilli]

You are running a server with a PCI-X slot?

THREE PCI-X SLOTS.

http://www.supermicro.com/products/motherboard/Xeon/E7505/X5DA8.cfm

Key Features
1. Dual Intel® Xeon® Support
up to 3.2 GHz
2. Intel® E7505 Chipset
3. Up to 12GB DDR 266/200 SDRAM
4. Intel® 82545EM Gigabit
Ethernet Controller
5. Adaptec AIC-7902 Dual-Channel
Ultra320 SCSI
6. 3x 64-bit PCI-X expansion slots
7. AC'97 Audio, 6-channel sound
8. Zero-Channel RAID support

So yes, it does have 3 PCI-X slots.

AHH THE MAXTORS, AND PROMISE. 2500 dollars, with labor, to have Dell finally tell me they
had used substandard chips on the motherboard that only supported one IDE device per channel.

In retrospect, it was one of the best things that ever happened to me, and maybe a cheap lesson. If not for that, and Apple doing the same thing, I might still be getting their garbage.

With an 8 drive SATA raid, using regular drives, the 3ware raid card tested at a bit over 800 mb/sec throughput. I suspect it will be able to use all of the speed of 2-6 SSD's in Raid 0.
IIRC, the PCI-X • 1x 64-bit 133/100/66MHz PCI-X (3.3V) slot will do slightly over 1 gig/sec.

Comes with 128 mb of ram, and, it's common ram, so it's upgradeable, though I wonder to what effect.

The 133mhz slot has pretty much it's own bus, and, the other two slots combine on another channel to the cpu.

 

[Handruin]

Intel's 80GB SSD is $215 @ newegg right now.

 

[Stereodude]

Not too shabby... Must resist...

 

[ddrueding]

That is the play at the moment, then.

 

[Handruin]

Joining newegg's group on Facebook was useful.

 

[Handruin]

Also, there might be a 10% Bing cash back deal if you buy that way. They were having some issues with it, but would save you a few more dollars off the SSD.

 

[LunarMist]

Meh. I don't need another one. I hope it sells out before I succumb to studipity.

 

[Handruin]

I'm resisting also even though I don't have one. I think the price will come down again.