SSDs - State of the Product?

[ddrueding]

I still have 1 of my 3 original 16GB MTRON SATA SSDs...$1200, IIRC.

 

[udaman]

There are too many different OCZ drives with similar names.

:viking:

^think I sed that b4 .

Honestly, in spite of wat Santi sez about Apple *ions* ago, prices for SSD's are not dropping very fast. U can get a WD Caviar Black HDD for $100...a whole friggin 1TB. <edit...I meant 1.5TB>

Wat can u get 4 $100 SSD now? Friggin 32GB? Way 2 expensive for such little capacity and slightly better performance (other than benchmarks).

OCZ launched a value-priced line of SSDs, starting with the $100 32GB model.
http://www.tomshardware.com/news/OCZ-Onyx-SSD-MLC-Storage,9854.html

iGary? he was the photographer gay guy/marijuana supporter, over on macrumors.com who went to work for Apple for a short time, and as such they closed all threads about him due to Apples supposed employment requirements...then changed their minds on MR's, and let him continue to post several years later when he returned.

 

[Sol]

The OCZ $100 SSDs seem a bit rubbish anyway, the extra cost for OCZs existing SSD of the same size, which is almost twice as fast, is in the order of $30... I guess if the only factors are price, impact resistance, and power consumption it's worth it but for most people I'd have thought speed was a serious motivating factor when considering an SSD...

 

[LunarMist]

The OCZ $100 SSDs seem a bit rubbish anyway, the extra cost for OCZs existing SSD of the same size, which is almost twice as fast, is in the order of $30... I guess if the only factors are price, impact resistance, and power consumption it's worth it but for most people I'd have thought speed was a serious motivating factor when considering an SSD...

There will be larger capacities and the price difference will be more significant. A cheap, but decent 128GB SSD would be welcome for many notebooks. It won't be too long now.

 

[Chewy509]

I saw this linked from HardOCP...

http://www.intel.com/pressroom/archive/releases/2010/20100315comp.htm

I thought the X25-V 40GBs had been out for a while?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820167025
http://www.overclock.net/hard-drives-storage/654073-intel-x25-v-40gb-review-aeogenia.html

And Ingram Micro list intro date of Feb 2010?

Or did I miss something?

PS. The X25-V 40GB is roughly listed at AU$154. Not bad? (since it offers roughly 70% of the IOPS as compared to the 32GB X25-E which retails 4x the price as the X25-V).

 

[LunarMist]

I don't know what it with that announcement, but the 40V has been at Newegg for qute a while. Perhaps there was not an official release.

 

[ddrueding]

I've had 6 in systems for several weeks.

 

[Chewy509]

I've had 6 in systems for several weeks.

How do they compare in performance to other SSDs in the same price/capacity bracket?

 

[ddrueding]

How do they compare in performance to other SSDs in the same price/capacity bracket?

Fine. Great, even. But I don't ask much of them, they are just light workstations.

 

[udaman]

I saw this linked from HardOCP...

http://www.intel.com/pressroom/archive/releases/2010/20100315comp.htm

I thought the X25-V 40GBs had been out for a while?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820167025
http://www.overclock.net/hard-drives-storage/654073-intel-x25-v-40gb-review-aeogenia.html

And Ingram Micro list intro date of Feb 2010?

Or did I miss something?

PS. The X25-V 40GB is roughly listed at AU$154. Not bad? (since it offers roughly 70% of the IOPS as compared to the 32GB X25-E which retails 4x the price as the X25-V).

Oh please, 3yr old specs @~$3/GB...freakin write performance is *slower* than modern fast 5.4k HDD (sans one filled to capacity), absurdly expensive for the performance...get a 7.2k HDD, tons more capacity for that $$$.

Would have been good price *if* @$1/GB 100GB min...then I'll be interested in that kind of minor incremental increase in performance for a laptop.

 

[OT: Polizei]

I miss Gary. Wonder what he's been up to?

Buck too.

Vielen Dank!

 

[Santilli]

WHERE HAVE YOU BEEN, AND WHAT ARE YOU DOING????

 

[Buck]

System Question

The budget system my company offers is called Oliver, and it includes these specs:
OLIVER
Athlon X2 240 2.8GHz 2MB L2
GA-MA78LM-S2H
4GB 800MHz DDR2 RAM
Antec NSK4482 - 380W PSU
320GB HDD
Samsung DVD-RW
Wireless Keyboard & Mouse
Windows 7 Premium 32
Asus 19" LCD

I think it is a decent setup for a budget system - one that I'd own. However, I'm thinking of offering a variation of this system with a bit more snap in performance. I have other lines that usually fill this gap, the next being Austin. Yet, my question for you all is, if I took Oliver and included an Intel 40GB SSD and changed the monitor to a 23" LCD, would the user experience greatly improve, or is it just wasted money? I know I could improve CPU capacity, and certainly improve video performance with something like a ATI HD 4670. However, I'm wondering if the SSD alone would really make the necessary difference? All things being equal, I’ve seen a 160GB SSD change a Phenom system from slow to fast. Obviously, a 160GB SSD is out of range for a budget system.

Oliver would change in price with those two changes from $740.00 to $970.00.

OLIVER TWIST?
Athlon X2 240 2.8GHz 2MB L2
GA-MA78LM-S2H
4GB 800MHz DDR2 RAM
Antec NSK4482 - 380W PSU
40GB SSD
320GB HDD
Samsung DVD-RW
Wireless Keyboard & Mouse
Windows 7 Premium 32
Asus 23" LCD

 

[Pradeep]

Can you bump up the mobo to something like this?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128435 - $139.99

This would give room for SATA 3/USB 3 expansion in the future. Would need to switch to an AM3 processor and DDR3 too. I imagine all the "new shiny" gadgets coming up will be USB 3 based. I would take that over the SSD premium at this time. Bigger monitor is always hard to resist, there is no such thing as too big IMHO.

Or maybe that's your mid-range type system?

 

[Handruin]

I agree with Pradeep. I would find the option of a larger monitor might win over the user of that system more than a lower grade SSD. I've never used it so I can't say first hand what that drive 'feels' like.

I guess only you know the people who buy the systems you build and their level of knowledge of the systems. You might get a better bang for the dollar by going from your 320GB drive to say a 1TB, 2 platter drive which offers a little more speed due to increased density.

 

[ddrueding]

The 40GB Intel SSDs are very nice drives. Not as quick in STR as their big brothers, but very nice anyway. If you are looking for snap in a system, consider an Intel chip. Regardless of benchmarks, Intel chips have felt snappier in my experience since the C2D was released.

Overall a good price, and I think the change could be felt quite easily.

 

[Buck]

This would give room for SATA 3/USB 3 expansion in the future. Would need to switch to an AM3 processor and DDR3 too. I imagine all the "new shiny" gadgets coming up will be USB 3 based. I would take that over the SSD premium at this time. Bigger monitor is always hard to resist, there is no such thing as too big IMHO.

Yeah, the extra gadgets would be nice, but that motherboard is more than double the cost of what I'm using. I do agree with a bigger monitor. The user experience is always enhanced with more screen real-estate. That's why I bumped it from 19" to 23". At least with a 23" you can view two Word documents side-by-side and watch a 1080P video if you wanted.

I guess only you know the people who buy the systems you build and their level of knowledge of the systems. You might get a better bang for the dollar by going from your 320GB drive to say a 1TB, 2 platter drive which offers a little more speed due to increased density.

Or maybe that's your mid-range type system?

If you are looking for snap in a system, consider an Intel chip. Regardless of benchmarks, Intel chips have felt snappier in my experience since the C2D was released.

Oliver is actually a trio of systems for the office. There are three versions: Budget Office Solution, Executive Office Solution, and Backup Office Solution. The version with an SSD and bigger monitor would be for Executives. The Backup Solution would be an office backup system. Thus, external drives for individual systems would not be necessary. I think that is where USB 3.0 would be best at this point. So, my backup system makes that point moot. That's my view anyway.

I would like to upgrade the storage capacity to 1TB, but again the cost is prohibitive. I serve another level of price / performance with systems that use larger capacity storage, Intel CPUs and ATI HD 4670 / 5670 graphics. Oliver is supposed to be the low-end, although it's not as cheap as the OEMs like Dell and HP. It is my mid-range systems where I'm more competitive with OEMs and at the high-end they're not even close.

Thanks for the input and feedback. You all have a lot of computing experience, and it is valuable. If you have more ideas, I'd appreciate it.

BR

 

[Santilli]

Hi Buck

Nice to see you posting again.

From my limited experience, I'd like to raise a couple questions.

First, isn't screen size tied to productivity?
I notice I can do a LOT more on a larger screen then I could on a 19".

Second: there seems to be a price fix war on larger computer monitors. It seems like the HannsG 28" is the only one that really is within price reason at about 300 dollars.

After my experience with the 37" VXT, I'm wondering if a lower end, 27-32" Television might not provide a better value, and experience? You wouldn't need 120-240 MHZ, and that would keep the cost within throwing distance of the current monitors.

I just don't see much value in the screen increasing from 19-21.5" to the larger monitors, cost wise.

For the money, this is REAL hard to beat, for any computer monitor:
http://www.costco.com/Browse/Produc...1523644&ec=BC-EC877-CatHome&pos=21&lang=en-US

230 for 25", and 1080?

http://www.costco.com/Browse/Produc..._Price|1||P_SignDesc1&lang=en-US&Sp=C&topnav=

Plus, I think the quality of the TV's is much higher then the computer monitors. I purchase stuff from Costco, and, the one attractive feature of the monitors is a lifetime return.
I've bought 3 Samsung 2233's, and had to return one. They ran 270 when I bought them, and, that's for a 21.5"

The VXT just seems FAR more solid, and far more features, for the increase in money.
I also think it is likely to last longer then the Samsung monitors, judging by my experience
with the Samsungs.

Hope this is food for thought.

By the way, the Samsung looks really drab and dull next to the Vizio XVT.

As for the SSD's:

A 30 gig enough for a boot drive for your office?

I've noticed a nice jump with a clean install, and an SSD in every machine I've tried it in, which is currently everything but my laptop. The Athlon 3200+ system I setup for my girlfriend is much slower, cpu wise, then your system, but, it made a nice speed jump, even moving from a Velociraptor.

It is a noticeable improvement, and she likes it. Her machine is pretty much just an office machine, as well, even though it could be used for HTPC.

Hope this helps,

Greg

 

[LunarMist]

Hi Buck

Nice to see you posting again.

From my limited experience, I'd like to raise a couple questions.

First, isn't screen size tied to productivity?
I notice I can do a LOT more on a larger screen then I could on a 19".

Greg

Too large is just as bad as too small IME.

 

[LunarMist]

Interesting.

 

[ddrueding]

The OCZ Z-drive I'm using now is an LSI SAS RAID controller with some OCZ SSDs on it. So technically, they are already in that market.

 

[udaman]

Too large is just as bad as too small IME.

Y&wut kind of E? All my E, says otherwise.

Interesting.

Y, plenty out already

 

[LunarMist]

Yes. I was thinking that the LSISSS6200 is more of an enterprise product since the individual cards are removable. It looks more compact as well.

 

[ddrueding]

Yes. I was thinking that the LSISSS6200 is more of an enterprise product since the individual cards are removable. It looks more compact as well.

If they are removable and SATA, then they are just a compact backplane? If they aren't SATA, then they are expensive and proprietary? If you want it more compact, than making it non-modular would be better.

 

[LunarMist]

It looks more compact that the OCZ.

 

[Santilli]

The OCZ Z-drive I'm using now is an LSI SAS RAID controller with some OCZ SSDs on it. So technically, they are already in that market.

From the numbers I saw, it certainly is up to the throughput required for the two drives;-)
Nearly 800 mb/sec, IIRC.

 

[ddrueding]

Yup. It is actually 4 drives in the 512GB and 1TB models. IIRC, the 256GB model is only two drives.

 

[LunarMist]

LSISSS6200 is rather faster than that with all slots populated. I'm afraid it will be too expensive for me.

 

[Pradeep]

Interesting potential of the upcoming new MegaRAID software:

http://www.lsi.com/news/product_news/2010/2010_03_03.html

CacheCaid to setup tiering solutions (rotating disk 1st with SSD doing heavy lifting etc).

And the snapshot functionality of MegaRAID recovery.

Hopefully they won't be too pricey as an option.

 

[Buck]

First, isn't screen size tied to productivity?

Yes, screen size is tied to productivity. However, as LM stated, "Too large is just as bad as too small IME." That has been my experience too. It works out that for large companies, the price / size of 19" is a sweet-spot for most users. The 23" is great for some of the power users or Executives. I've come across too many complaints with 26" and up for the office space. Those size monitors are better for home, home / office or niche use.

A 30 gig enough for a boot drive for your office?

A boot drive around that size is perfect for the office environment. As you showed, it certainly makes a boringly average system fun to use. That is the idea behind adding an SSD to my budget line.

I do appreciate the help Greg, et al. I agree with your input on monitors and LCD televisions. It just isn't the right sell for many of my customers. But I'd like to switch over for my own use.

As DD mentioned before about using C2D, I do have 5 different lines of workstations and 1 server.

Oliver - Budget - AMD Athlon
Austin - Budget to Mid-Range - C2D
Seawolf - Mid-Range to High-end - i7
Kidd - High-end Gaming - i7 Extreme
Wasp - High-end - Xeon

Joshua* - High-end Server - Xeon

Obviously, Oliver and Austin, or variations thereof, sell the best. Most system builds are a customization of these baseline systems. The advent of price worthy SSDs has really improved computer performance across the board, regardless of previous / existing hardware capability.


* This is the system that strays from my naming convention, but I couldn't pass up calling a gentle giant like this Joshua.

 

[LunarMist]

What naming convention?

 

[sdbardwick]

What naming convention?

U.S. Navy ships (maybe vessel class namesakes - Seawolf and Kidd are class names).

 

[LunarMist]

Oh. I didn't know about the computers used by the military.

 

[Stinker]

Curiosity got me and I bought a SSD to use in my C2D laptop w/ 2GB RAM and T7500 processor. 30GB OCZ Vertex for $80 after MIR. Since I only use it for brief periods of time and I have to boot it every time I use it, I will appreciate a quicker boot time, if that's all I end up noticing.

Can anyone give me some tips on how I will migrate my existing WinXP SP3 installation to the SSD? I have a USB external enclosure I can put the SSD in for the purpose of mirroring the existing drive to the SSD but I'm not sure what software I need or what other things I should do (for an SSD).

Thanks!

 

[LunarMist]

Use True Image. It is about $20.

 

[timwhit]

You could try Clonezilla. It's free and open source.

 

[ddrueding]

CloneZilla has worked for me, but day to day I use Acronis TrueImage.

 

[timwhit]

Well, if Clonezilla doesn't work all you've lost is time (don't know how valuable that is to you).

 

[Stinker]

I'll give CloneZilla a try. Nothing to lose I guess except some sleep. Hopefully the SSD gets here before the weekend...

 

[Santilli]

"Yes, screen size is tied to productivity. However, as LM stated, "Too large is just as bad as too small IME." That has been my experience too. It works out that for large companies, the price / size of 19" is a sweet-spot for most users. The 23" is great for some of the power users or Executives. I've come across too many complaints with 26" and up for the office space. Those size monitors are better for home, home / office or niche use."

Hi Buck

I can't imagine using a 21.5 or even a 26", and being happy with it, after working on my 37", and Davids' Aquos and side monitor.

I guess it's good for your company people don't know what they are missing