Switching to IE 7

[Tea]

I asked a while ago about dual intalls of IE7 and IE6 (for testing web pages) and decided that the best answers (virtual machines and stuff) were not things I was comfortable doing on Tannin's laptop. It runs beautifully and I don't wan't to mess it up. Nor am I really prepared to put in the requred skull sweat (unless desperate).

So the simple, practical answer at home is to have IE 6 on one machine, and IE 7 on the other. But which way around?

I don't really care too much about the desktop, it's just a glorified file server anyway, so it's the obvious choivce for IE 7. Trouble is, it's got a Windows Update problem and it doesn't want to install IE7. (I know how to fix that, it's just very tedious.)

But which would I rather have on our most-used machine? How different is IE 7 to use? What are the better things and the worse things about it, as compared to IE 6? (I've never really used IE 7, as I essentially just use Opera, Seamonkey and Firefox.)

Would you install IE 7 on the machine you use all the time? Or keep IE 6 on your main machine and use the spare machine for 7?

 

[Mercutio]

I installed IE7 because I was too lazy to except it from the Critical Updates on my machines. I don't use it. I don't care about it. I don't open it.

VMs are really very simple to deal with. You install VMware server, make a VM by assigning some RAM (512MB if you have 1GB) and some disk space (4GB is fine for a basic software testing toy), then you start the VM and load Windows as normal. Something you do every day.

Anyway, yes, I upgraded IE on PCs that I use. It is different, but a couple of the positive aspect are the GUI add-on manager, so you can finally see all of IE's BHOs and plugins, and the "Clear All Data" button in the general options. Oh. And tabs.

On the other hand... lots of web sites don't work in it. Some of my customers are having their sites re-coded because apparently IE7 is off in its own little stylesheet world compared to Firefox or Opera or IE6. Seems to me like you - web guy Tannin - kind of need to look at it on SOMETHING. It's not going to get any less common.

 

[P5-133XL]

I prefer 7 over 6 with one exception: IE7 does not have a page refresh button. The fact that I have to choose refresh from a menu annoys me to no end.

 

[Tannin]

You are right, Merc. I'll install it on the laptop I use for 80-odd percent of my computing. Why the laptop? Because (as you say) -

* It's gong to get more and more common, so IE 7 compatibility is probably already more important than IE 6. Ergo, check in IE 7 first, IE 6 later.

* Tabs. I often have multiple pages going on a site I'm working on, and I'd sort of forgotten that IE 7 (finall!) does tabs.

* Because VMware sounds easy. Can I just upgrade to I E 7 and then do the VMWare/IE 6 thing later? Trouble with the VMWare site is it doesn't tell you what it actually does or what the fundamental basis of the product is. (Stupid marketing morons.)

Forget that last question: I must have a lying around machine here somewhere I can try it out on.

 

[Tannin]

What? No refresh? That sucks - big time. Maybe I'd be better with 6.

 

[Clocker]

Fresh install of IE7 has a refresh button immediately to the right of the url address box. It's a button with green up/down arrows on it. Or you can just hit F5.

I use FFox though.

 

[Mercutio]

VMWare really is easy, Tannin. Just try it already. If you have a dual core something or other, you REALLY won't even notice it's running.

 

[mubs]

My VMWare Server key has expired - I have to figure out how to get a new one. It's idiotic that a "free" product has a key that expires. I had opbtained the key back when it was in "beta", but had never installed the product.

 

[Mercutio]

If you've already made your VM, you can switch to the even free-er VMWare Player...
Unless you actually use the detachable consoles, it's perfectly fine.

Also, I'm not aware of the Server key expiring, and I keep using the same one over and over.

 

[P5-133XL]

Fresh install of IE7 has a refresh button immediately to the right of the url address box. It's a button with green up/down arrows on it. Or you can just hit F5.

I use FFox though.

You're right the two arrows are a refresh button ...

 

[Tannin]

Whew! No refresh would be a major drawback. When you are coding a new layout, you hit refresh maybe 100 times till you are happy with the way it looks.

Clocker, I certainy don't use IE for anything bar testing purposes. Well, Tea uses it for Storage Forum, 'cause it saves logging in and out in the same browser all the time (I use Opera 9.1) and 'cause we trust Doug not to infect us with anything nasty, but aside from that, my IE is strictly for testing.

 

[Tannin]

So, Merc, what's the go: you install VMWare and then do a Windows install into the virtual machine, is that it? And flick between them with a keystroke or something?

(I am amazed that their website doesn't tell you this. I mean, reams of weird stuff and fancy information, but they don't tell you what it actully does - bizarre.)

 

[Mercutio]

Yeah. I usually leave VMs at 1024x786 in a Window so I can switch easily, but you hit CTRL-ALT to return input focus to the host in a full screen session.

Alo make sure you install VMWare tools.

 

[Tannin]

Job done. Thanks Merc! IE 7 on my laptop, IE 6 in a W2K virtual machine. I took your advice and gave it 4GB, but only 128MB of RAM, as I don't intend to use it for anything else except testing web pages with IE 6.

Oh, and a quick look at the sites I run suggests that IE 7 hasn't broken on any of them - largely, I guess, because I try to write very simple code and avoid browser-specific hacks as far as possible. And my new site (detaile to follow when I go live) is looking good.

 

[Bozo]

Microsofts Virtual PC 2007 will be out in March? It's free and is even easier to set up. I used Vista beta as the host and installed DOS 6.2 as the guest OS. Don't know why I did that, but it worked.
It even works with MS Server operating systems, host or guest.

Bozo :joker:

 

[Mercutio]

MS VPC is also substantially slower and plagued with compatibility issues when dealing with non-Microsoft OSes. Many people, me included, have had difficulty installing Linux under VPC. In comparison, I've seen .VMDKs for OSX/Intel a couple times.

Plus, there are TWO free VMware products: VMware Player, which can play any guest file you happen to have, and VMWare Server, which is a full featured product that also supports nifty things like remote display of guest OSes.

And why am I posting this when there's an EMC employee around here someplace?

 

[ddrueding]

And why am I posting this when there's an EMC employee around here someplace?

I was thinking the same thing...

 

[Tea]

Just a quickie: the IE 7 default screen fonts are terrrible!

 

[Tea]

Solution (as I expected) turn off that stupid font-aliasing technology, whatever it's called. I can't believe how bad it looks!

 

[mubs]

Can I please bum a key for VMWare Server 1.0.0-28343 off someone?

 

[Deadwood]

vmware server keys

mubs: I Imagine that you can simply request a server key, since it's free. The key for a beta product is probably different than for a released product, I imagine. I purchased VmWare 3.x back in the day, and used vmware 4.x through work, and really liked it. I ran it on a linux host to be able to run IE and to edit the occasional stubborn MS Office document.

 

[Tea]

Mubs, just download the current (non-beta) version. Bet you London to a brick that the only reason yours has expired is because it is a beta and the real mcoy is out now.

 

[Tea]

PS: you get the key from their website by filling out a form. It's a bit weird and you have to hunt around for it, but that's all of a piece with their bizarre non-information on the site.

 

[ddrueding]

The talk of a licence expiring is from their beta period. If you got a beta licence to go with their beta software, it was designed to expire quite a while after the full version was released. Just go back and get a full licence (still free, and reverse compatible with your old VMs).

 

[mubs]

Thanks folks.

Tea, I did download the latest and when I tried the key I got for the beta, it didn't work, for obvious reasons. I'll try to find that darned page on VMWare's site and go through the rigmarole again. Was just bein lazy (hic).

 

[Tea]

Nice: this is a registry fix to put the stupid, pointless, counter-intuitive, in-the-wrong-place IE 7 menu bar back where it belongs:

http://www.snapfiles.com/get/ie7menutoptweak.html

Now all I need is a similar one to make it put the "close tab" X thingies where they belong. Anyone seen such a thing?

 

[Tea]

PS: Firefox (which has the same asinine problem with getting the X in the right place) needs one too. (An X fix, not the menu bar one - at least they get that right.) I imagine there is an add-on that does it, but it seems easier to simply not install Firefox 2.x and stay with 1.x. It's not like I use the Fox much anyway.

PPS: Opera defaults to the dumb X placement too, and indeed can lay claim to having invented it ... er ... Version 7 or 8, I think it was - 6 certainly did it the right way. BUT, as nearly always with Opera, it's a one-click in options to fix it. WTF can't the Firefox designers get this stuff right?

PPS: I expect Microsoft to get things wrong, but mozilla.org should be smarter than that.

 

[ddrueding]

Intolerant little monkey. This has been discussed here before (and I think you were part of that conversation, or at least the old man was).

 

[ddrueding]

Tea,

Sorry for the Monkey comment, that was undeserved. You may have memory issues, but you are indeed an ape. My apologies, I just burned myself making breakfast and I get mean when I'm in pain.

 

[Tea]

Actually, I had some vague memory of that David - very vague, as I thought it was an extension. (I despise Firefox extensions. If it's worth having, put the damn thing in the browser. Or at least make the bloody things work right - i.e., maointain themselves across new versions as you apply updates.)

But seeing as it ois a simple preference setting - albiet stupidly arcane in the way you set it ....


WTF happened to menus?

Hello?

1983?

Is anybody out there?


sigh

 

[Tea]

PS: No flim-flam about the monkey thing, Dave. I mean, most humans get pretty vague about what species they are after a few drinks. (Ever been to New Zealand?) It's no big deal. Tannin calls me worse all the time, and sometimes means it. (He's usually grumpy too.) BTW, I have now installed Firefox 2 and (with stupid arcane tab fix in place) it's just fine. Thanks.

Oh, and sorry about your burn. Have an extra banana, and stir in an extra spoonful of sugar in your coffee. Cheers you up. That's what I always do.

 

[ddrueding]

Eh, just went straight to my Level and Tonic. Works well after breakfast.

 

[CityK]

I think IE7 is a lot better then IE6 (that isn't saying much though now is it), but I did run into a problem with page handling, as Merc alluded too somewhere above. Actually, the problem is with printing some forms from a vendors website that works fine IE6, but on IE7 the page layout is not preserved and you get page 2 contents being printed on page 1 and so forth. Couldn't find a solution to it, much to the person's dissapointment. PS I don't even bother suggesting FF for some people, because, as Clocker noted (either here or another thread) there just ain't no changin the ways of some folks of the older variety ... let them be I figure ... switching them to FF would result in more work for me, and likely stress for them, anyways....let sleeping dogs lie?

 

[Will Rickards]

IE7 prints my pay checks on one page which is nice, unlike IE6 which used two pages. And I have to use IE to print them as Firefox misses some of the data when printing. I assume this is a print styling problem. The whole HR site is pretty browser dumb.

The corporate policy won't let us install IE7 because it breaks some of those browser dumb internal sites, but I have it installed at home.
At home I'm using firefox but at work I've switched to Opera. I'll probably still develop using Firefox because of stuff like FireBug and the Web Developer Toolbar. I can't wait till they add real javascript support in the next version of Visual Studio. Hopefully they'll also get the idea about html standards and not muck with my html and output some nice html strict if I choose. Okay maybe they won't do that but I'll enjoy the javascript syntax highlighting and completion and such.