Prof.Wizard
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The Giver revealed...
- Thread starter The Giver
- Start date
CougTek
Hairy Aussie
???
time
Storage? I am Storage!
I've never heard of a thread coming out before. Is this some sort of obscure reference to Flagreen's confession?
Prof.Wizard
Wannabe Storage Freak
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Sorry, I guess it was really OT. 
Nevermind. I'll throw it somewhere else next time...
Nevermind. I'll throw it somewhere else next time...
James
Storage is cool
Can't wait. :roll:Prof.Wizard said:
Santilli
Hairy Aussie
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Friend is in Isreal for a vacation...
And he's been emailing me about the situation. Suffice to say the devastation touches every family in a very small place, the size of San Francisco. The people are very close, and the bombings kill and maim and effect, just about every family in the area. This is not an impersonal war. It's having your neighbor's daughter, 6, killed on the way to school, etc.
Allen Keyes put it well. We fail to understand the kind of mind set that develops from people under this combat situation, since we are not. We had a very small taste of it in September, but, the Jews live with it on a daily basis.
Keyes point was this sort of random bombing makes people react in one way: wanting to elimenate the source of the problem. I have little doubt that Isreal has to come up with a military solution, and we have to support it, since the other side is willing to die, rather then negotiate, or, when they negotiate, they do so just to improve their position for conducting violence.
Also keep in mind that the population of Isreal is now affected by a large group of Russian Jewish immigrants. NOT the softest, or most likely to negotiate of the faith.
I think we must accept that in certain situations, diplomatic solutions fail.
Our messing around in other countries is affected by our own pomp and circumstance. We are not there, facing the hate, and the fanatics that want to kill us.
I like to analogize this conflict to Bosnia, where we supported the Moslems, who had just fought a conquering war,
taking territory, and, we jumped into stop the terrorist attacks by the people that had occupied the land, prior to 1994.
I suspect it would be best if we support our allies, limit our participation in other nations wars, and try and deal with our own immigration problems, and corporation problems.
Perhaps we should take a more modern, European view of immigration, to protect ourselves from terrorism.
gs
And he's been emailing me about the situation. Suffice to say the devastation touches every family in a very small place, the size of San Francisco. The people are very close, and the bombings kill and maim and effect, just about every family in the area. This is not an impersonal war. It's having your neighbor's daughter, 6, killed on the way to school, etc.
Allen Keyes put it well. We fail to understand the kind of mind set that develops from people under this combat situation, since we are not. We had a very small taste of it in September, but, the Jews live with it on a daily basis.
Keyes point was this sort of random bombing makes people react in one way: wanting to elimenate the source of the problem. I have little doubt that Isreal has to come up with a military solution, and we have to support it, since the other side is willing to die, rather then negotiate, or, when they negotiate, they do so just to improve their position for conducting violence.
Also keep in mind that the population of Isreal is now affected by a large group of Russian Jewish immigrants. NOT the softest, or most likely to negotiate of the faith.
I think we must accept that in certain situations, diplomatic solutions fail.
Our messing around in other countries is affected by our own pomp and circumstance. We are not there, facing the hate, and the fanatics that want to kill us.
I like to analogize this conflict to Bosnia, where we supported the Moslems, who had just fought a conquering war,
taking territory, and, we jumped into stop the terrorist attacks by the people that had occupied the land, prior to 1994.
I suspect it would be best if we support our allies, limit our participation in other nations wars, and try and deal with our own immigration problems, and corporation problems.
Perhaps we should take a more modern, European view of immigration, to protect ourselves from terrorism.
gs
Prof.Wizard
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Interesting view Santili, I agree with all parts.
But this topic deserves another thread, not The Giver's...
Please, if you will, enrich it and post it again in an independent thread. :idea:
But this topic deserves another thread, not The Giver's...
Please, if you will, enrich it and post it again in an independent thread. :idea:
Santilli
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I think this is a proper place for such comments
The Giver came about because of a fear of ostrazation by the mainly liberal community in Storage Review. Bill and I live in an area that is at the forefront of the liberal-facist movement. NOTHING is less tolerant then a liberal that you disagree with.
In my work area, you have to fake being a liberal to survive, regardless whether you believe the crap they put out, or, if you have direct, contrary experience.
For example, in my teaching and coaching experience, the kids I worked with LIKED the fact that they knew where they stood with me, and I told them straight up, where I was, and that I had a zero tolerance for mouthing off, or fighting in the gym. They called me "old school", "ref", or "street", from the NBA basketball game, but none was meant with disrespect, just the reverse.
Likewise, my entire class complemented me on my handling of the ongoing discipline problems in the class, and wished I was returning, not the current teacher.
Likewise the older coaches, and some of the kids at the St. Mary's tournament.
It's odd that in this area of liberal "forgiveness" I get great respect because I'm not afraid to stand up for my principles, state clearly where I stand, and let the students know exactly what they have to do to pass, and, what the consequences are going to be for their actions.
This flys in the face of the more 'modern' means of discipline.
Many other people respect that approach, as well.
That said, the flip side is such a position can cost you your job, if you run into many of the administrators around here...
Likewise, I can understand Bill's concern for his standing, and the necessity of creating a different persona to put forward his ideas, contrary to the general group at SR.
All he had to do was look at the impailing I got, thanks to Eugene and Davin, along with a couple of their friends, for proof that such an attack could occur.
I think Bill's creation of another personna is something that was required at the time, and I think we should respect both his personnas.
Bringing him out of the closet was something he should have done, at his own time, not being forced out by anyone.
gs
The Giver came about because of a fear of ostrazation by the mainly liberal community in Storage Review. Bill and I live in an area that is at the forefront of the liberal-facist movement. NOTHING is less tolerant then a liberal that you disagree with.
In my work area, you have to fake being a liberal to survive, regardless whether you believe the crap they put out, or, if you have direct, contrary experience.
For example, in my teaching and coaching experience, the kids I worked with LIKED the fact that they knew where they stood with me, and I told them straight up, where I was, and that I had a zero tolerance for mouthing off, or fighting in the gym. They called me "old school", "ref", or "street", from the NBA basketball game, but none was meant with disrespect, just the reverse.
Likewise, my entire class complemented me on my handling of the ongoing discipline problems in the class, and wished I was returning, not the current teacher.
Likewise the older coaches, and some of the kids at the St. Mary's tournament.
It's odd that in this area of liberal "forgiveness" I get great respect because I'm not afraid to stand up for my principles, state clearly where I stand, and let the students know exactly what they have to do to pass, and, what the consequences are going to be for their actions.
This flys in the face of the more 'modern' means of discipline.
Many other people respect that approach, as well.
That said, the flip side is such a position can cost you your job, if you run into many of the administrators around here...
Likewise, I can understand Bill's concern for his standing, and the necessity of creating a different persona to put forward his ideas, contrary to the general group at SR.
All he had to do was look at the impailing I got, thanks to Eugene and Davin, along with a couple of their friends, for proof that such an attack could occur.
I think Bill's creation of another personna is something that was required at the time, and I think we should respect both his personnas.
Bringing him out of the closet was something he should have done, at his own time, not being forced out by anyone.
gs
Prof.Wizard
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I agree to an advanced extend. It's true that some times the so-called liberals are the least tolerant and least discussing...
PS. Sorry, cheap shot: ostrazation --> ostracism
PPS. There are many MANY M-A-N-Y more examples as the one you gave about given things that are not as they seem (ie. liberals-tolerant). I can bring examples from politics in EU to group psychology...
PS. Sorry, cheap shot: ostrazation --> ostracism
PPS. There are many MANY M-A-N-Y more examples as the one you gave about given things that are not as they seem (ie. liberals-tolerant). I can bring examples from politics in EU to group psychology...
Santilli
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Definition vs. reality
liberal
lib·er·al [líbb?r?l, líbbr?l] adjective
1. broad-minded: tolerant of different views and standards of behavior in others
2. POLITICS progressive politically or socially: favoring gradual reform, especially political reforms that extend democracy, distribute wealth more evenly, and protect the personal freedom of the individual
3. generous: generous with money, time, or some other asset • My great-aunt was liberal in her bequests.
4. generous in quantity: large in size or amount • a liberal helping
5. LANGUAGE not literal: not limited to the literal meaning in t
Encarta® World English Dictionary © & (P) 1999 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved. Developed for Microsoft by Bloomsbury Publishing Plc.
The number one is the juxtaposition to the current batch that is so disheartening.
"liberals" are anything but that. They refuse to engage in the discussion of ideals, mores, and ethics that are such an integral part of the dialectic process.
Ann Coulter beat me to the punch, and has published a book on the subject.
gs
liberal
lib·er·al [líbb?r?l, líbbr?l] adjective
1. broad-minded: tolerant of different views and standards of behavior in others
2. POLITICS progressive politically or socially: favoring gradual reform, especially political reforms that extend democracy, distribute wealth more evenly, and protect the personal freedom of the individual
3. generous: generous with money, time, or some other asset • My great-aunt was liberal in her bequests.
4. generous in quantity: large in size or amount • a liberal helping
5. LANGUAGE not literal: not limited to the literal meaning in t
Encarta® World English Dictionary © & (P) 1999 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved. Developed for Microsoft by Bloomsbury Publishing Plc.
The number one is the juxtaposition to the current batch that is so disheartening.
"liberals" are anything but that. They refuse to engage in the discussion of ideals, mores, and ethics that are such an integral part of the dialectic process.
Ann Coulter beat me to the punch, and has published a book on the subject.
gs
Cliptin
Wannabe Storage Freak
Re: Definition vs. reality
#2 Is quite laughable itself!
What does Encarta say out Conservative or Liberatarian?
#2 Is quite laughable itself!
What does Encarta say out Conservative or Liberatarian?
The Grammar Police
Learning Storage Performance
Why laughable? That is what the word means, and even my friend Tannin - a card-carrying Microsoft basher - is unable to fault them in this regard. It is more or less exactly the same definition that you will find in any of the world's great dictionaries: the Oxford, Websters, the Macquarie, you name it.
If you have misunderstood the word up until today, or applied it to people that the description does not fit, that is your fault. Next time you want to describe someone, use a word that fits better.
If you have misunderstood the word up until today, or applied it to people that the description does not fit, that is your fault. Next time you want to describe someone, use a word that fits better.
The Grammar Police
Learning Storage Performance
Here, allow me to demonstrate with a small fictitious conversation.
Jones: "Do you know Cliptin, Smith?"
Smith: "Sure. He's the one with the purple hair."
Jones: "Purple hair? I don't see anyone with purple hair here."
Smith: "There! The one over in the corner talking to the Bartender."
Jones: "Oh. Him? But he has brown hair."
Smith: "No, it's purple."
Jones: "Purple? You are kidding me. It's nothing like purple! His hair is lighter than black, has no particular hint of red or blue in it, and is darker than blonde."
Smith: "Exactly: purple. Why do you always have so much trouble understanding me, Jones?"
Jones: "Smith, that is not purple.
Smith: "Yes it is."
Jones" "If you look up 'purple' in a dictionary you will find that it is not."
Smith: "OK smarty pants, let's do it. Websters good enough for you?
Jones: "Sure."
Smith: "Right, according to Webster, 'purple' is 'any of a group of colors with a hue between that of violet and red.' Hey! That's nothing like Cliptin's hair!"
Jones: "See what I mean?"
Smith: "I sure do! That bloody dictionary is wrong again!"
Jones: "Do you know Cliptin, Smith?"
Smith: "Sure. He's the one with the purple hair."
Jones: "Purple hair? I don't see anyone with purple hair here."
Smith: "There! The one over in the corner talking to the Bartender."
Jones: "Oh. Him? But he has brown hair."
Smith: "No, it's purple."
Jones: "Purple? You are kidding me. It's nothing like purple! His hair is lighter than black, has no particular hint of red or blue in it, and is darker than blonde."
Smith: "Exactly: purple. Why do you always have so much trouble understanding me, Jones?"
Jones: "Smith, that is not purple.
Smith: "Yes it is."
Jones" "If you look up 'purple' in a dictionary you will find that it is not."
Smith: "OK smarty pants, let's do it. Websters good enough for you?
Jones: "Sure."
Smith: "Right, according to Webster, 'purple' is 'any of a group of colors with a hue between that of violet and red.' Hey! That's nothing like Cliptin's hair!"
Jones: "See what I mean?"
Smith: "I sure do! That bloody dictionary is wrong again!"
Cliptin
Wannabe Storage Freak
Re: Definition vs. reality
In particular:
Using the word reform is way too ambiguous to be used in this context. Not to meantion the word progressive.
The fundemental aspect of democracy is that of personal responsibility and freedom. The liberal movement in the US would like to take responsibility for me. Wants to concentrate this responsibility and centralize it. This is anti-thetical to democracy.
In particular:
Using the word reform is way too ambiguous to be used in this context. Not to meantion the word progressive.
The fundemental aspect of democracy is that of personal responsibility and freedom. The liberal movement in the US would like to take responsibility for me. Wants to concentrate this responsibility and centralize it. This is anti-thetical to democracy.
The Grammar Police
Learning Storage Performance
Re: Definition vs. reality
That can't possibly be true. The word "liberal" means (among other things) "tending to protect the personal freedom of the individual". (Refer dictionary definition above.) It is logically impossible for a 'liberal movement' to do as you claim.You just said this yourself, in your quoted definition.
Now there may well be a movement in the US that is trying to reduce personal freedom (not being on the spot, it's not for me to comment on that). But if there is, then by definition it is not a 'liberal' movement.
That can't possibly be true. The word "liberal" means (among other things) "tending to protect the personal freedom of the individual". (Refer dictionary definition above.) It is logically impossible for a 'liberal movement' to do as you claim.You just said this yourself, in your quoted definition.
Now there may well be a movement in the US that is trying to reduce personal freedom (not being on the spot, it's not for me to comment on that). But if there is, then by definition it is not a 'liberal' movement.
Cliptin
Wannabe Storage Freak
Re: Definition vs. reality
Indeed, the right and the left have been known to come to mean the opposite. And then some time later switch back. Maybe it's the result of the two party system. At current, it is as I described. At present, the party in the US that advocates the most hands-off approach would be the Liberiarian party. Any wonder why we get so frustrated with politics.
Aside: I think one reason US citizens don't consider international politics more closely as because it takes so much energy for domestic politics. Maybe it takes as much energy everywhere. Dunno.
The Grammar Police said:
Indeed, the right and the left have been known to come to mean the opposite. And then some time later switch back. Maybe it's the result of the two party system. At current, it is as I described. At present, the party in the US that advocates the most hands-off approach would be the Liberiarian party. Any wonder why we get so frustrated with politics.
Aside: I think one reason US citizens don't consider international politics more closely as because it takes so much energy for domestic politics. Maybe it takes as much energy everywhere. Dunno.
Tea
Storage? I am Storage!
Re: Definition vs. reality
Ahh, and there is the nub of it. Well, as long as you can laugh there is not too much wrong with the world. And with that remark, Cliptin, for no particular reason you gave me a good old-fashioned belly laugh. Sometimes I'm glad I'm just an ape. You humans really are strange creatures. My lot, over on this side of the big pond, are just as silly as your lot. Possibly even sillier. Hell, what rational creature would be sitting in the office at 12:22AM doing bloody taxation paperwork just because there is a new tax system that 51% of the country voted against?
Poor Tannin. He's lucky he's got me to keep him company.
(Tea! Will you stop messing about on the web and let me get back to my spreadsheet?)
(Oh. Sorry Tannin. But even you were laughing at Cliptin's post.)
(Yes, yes. Now can I do some work? Or do you want to be here all night?)
(Sorry.)
Cliptin said:
Ahh, and there is the nub of it. Well, as long as you can laugh there is not too much wrong with the world. And with that remark, Cliptin, for no particular reason you gave me a good old-fashioned belly laugh. Sometimes I'm glad I'm just an ape. You humans really are strange creatures. My lot, over on this side of the big pond, are just as silly as your lot. Possibly even sillier. Hell, what rational creature would be sitting in the office at 12:22AM doing bloody taxation paperwork just because there is a new tax system that 51% of the country voted against?
Poor Tannin. He's lucky he's got me to keep him company.
(Tea! Will you stop messing about on the web and let me get back to my spreadsheet?)
(Oh. Sorry Tannin. But even you were laughing at Cliptin's post.)
(Yes, yes. Now can I do some work? Or do you want to be here all night?)
(Sorry.)
Why am I not surprised?The Giver said:
It is kind of sad, though, that a person had to resort to using an alias in order to troll... err... express his true views, I mean. IMHO that says something about the community, or about that person's perception of community. Or perhaps about the person himself. Pitiful, actually. :blue:
I won't need a hundred - one will do, you anti-semitic pig! :wink:CougTek said:
On a serious note, there is a certain anti-semitic taste to your claims (and I'm not talking about the two specific passages you quoted). However!!! Since I've also read around your posts a little, I think I understand the roots or motives for such inclination in your views, and IMHO those roots mainly boil down to lack of information and historical background / misinformation. As such, I don't see too much wrong with it, since if someone described Canadians to me as bloodthirsty cannibals that seek the destruction of US and slaying of <whatever the current prez would be at the time> on the altar of whatever their screwed-up Canadian God is - yeah, I think I'd be expressing anti-Canadian views as well.
Except, perhaps, for the fact that if I really felt like discussing the need to launch a full-scale nuclear strike against "our friendly but backwards neighbours"* with someone in a serious conversation, chances are I would have researched the subject thoroughly myself prior to making any claims, rather than relying on hearsay.
BTW, I've noticed that some of the posts by some of the individuals were edited, but I could locate no way to edit my own posts. IMHO, given the nature of the messageboard allowing editing of the posts was a bad idea as in itself (which eventually leads to extensive monkey business with members addressing other members in less than agreeable ways and then simply removing the questionable content, thus "clearing their own record"), and much more so if the possibility to edit posts was granted to selected few of the members, thus also putting the rest of the community at a disadvantage.
Unless I missed something about posts editing, that is!
P.S. As some of the SR members who know me for a couple of years have probably guessed, I'm currently in my "off" phase of the "on again, off again" cycle on the boards. I just came back to look up something specific and bumped into this thread. So, even though you may feel free to answer this post, I'm not sure I'll have the time to have a look at the replies anytime soon. My apologies in advance.
See ya all, folks! :beer:
-----------------
* - long, long time ago
, when SR forums still bloomed and actually contained all the threads, I posted a very nice map of "World according to Yanks". I think it was in AtC thread or something similar - perhaps some of the old-timers still remember it :roll: Well, that's where the name comes from.Hmm.. well it must be the community as The Giver got the best if you on more than one occasion and surely the all knowing Helldiver could not be bested by someone who is "pitiful" now could he?HellDiver said:
Well now there is the arrogant social misfit we all know as Helldiver plying his trade as only he can. Walked on any water lately?Helldiver said:
Tea
Storage? I am Storage!
Hi HellDiver! Nice to see you popping in.
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