Time for Heresey!

[JSF]

It is time to speak heresy! I have had too much cognac, so my inhibitions are down.

You guys should never have left SR! Before SR’s wipeout you offered the best PC advice to struggling PC novices that I encountered in any website. I was, and still am, a novice and I devoured your posts and progressed in my understanding of PC’s and looked forward to all of your posts. I will not single out individuals because there are too many.

I read many of your carefully constructed and detailed posts. You successfully directed me in my decisions as a victim of Intel’s 840 defective chipset and you helped me solve my subsequent software problems. I can now state that with W2k Pro I have not had a blue screen in two years. Most of this happy state of affairs is due to your support.

When Storage Review suffered its data base loss you lost heart. You had invested much of your productive lives in that data base. And being professionals you had a need for a secure base for peer communication. Storage Forum was you answer.

Much selfless energy has been invested in Storage Forum. But as an “outsider” viewing SF, it is degenerating to a “Good Old Boys Club”. Compare the growth of your membership to that of Storage Review. Perhaps this is what you want. On the other hand days go by and there are few if any new posts to any of your forums. Old ones seem to be resurrected to keep the site alive.

On the other hand SR still needs your input to raise its standards. You complain of the average level of competency in SR’s posts, but your absence has lowered that standard. In fact, when did any of you feel that you were helping anyone other than your peers?

I am basically a lurker, but I contribute occasionally to SR, but rarely to SF, because I no longer am comfortable in SF.

I risk your ridicule with these remarks, but this is the way I feel.

Joe.

 

[Groltz]

Touching. :roll:

Seems to me, though, that a lot of the membership here never stopped posting at SR and still visit there frequently.

 

[Prof.Wizard]

Joe, your remarks are appreciated, cause they are rightful and I used to feel myself like this too.

However, SR is beyond our control. Eugene is a nice fellow and runs SR quite efficiently but he doesn't ask much our* opinion. I've tried many times to help there and I could have even been moderator there now if I continued with my initial zeal, but this wasn't my goal. This is a more cosy place because it is made by us who know each other. Better be king in the village than pawn in the city...

I have said many times to stop writing here and continue ONLY to SR, but I always keep returning. Don't know, maybe there are my darlings CougTek, Mercutio, and the occasional PITA here that keep my interests going...

However don't worry, as Groltz said, most of us keep popping there quite often.

*old guard

 

[jtr1962]

I still post at SR occasionally. The problem is that there just aren't too many topics that hold my interest there any more, and too low a signal to noise ratio. Also, it seems that trolls pop up a bit too often for my tastes. Eugene really needs some industrial strength troll spray.

 

[LiamC]

Never posted much at SR (and so don't include myself in the JSF's glory), but I like it here because the bullshit factor is so low.

Used to post lots on JC's, Ace's, ACAU and TR, now it's just here

To echo jtr1962, not too many topics hold my interest anymore, but there are a few that pop up here

 

[Mercutio]

In the very old days of the internet (USENET, mostly), prior to the web, prior to AOL, there was the idea of "September". September was when newbies came online through university accounts. Without knowing history or how to use the software they had been given, the newbies came and did the same silly things over and over.
By May, the newbies understood. Discussions were better and the signal to noise ratio was up.

SR, since the crash, has felt like a permanent September. Most of the topics on SR seem to be "which drive do I buy for gaming?" or RAID0 or "[Insert brand name] failed, now what do I get?"

After the 500th identical discussion, it's easy to see why we visit less.

Some of us are still frequent posters on SR. I am. Pradeep is. PW is. jtr is. Some of us don't have the time or energy to sort through all the crap on SR, and so visit here, to socialize with friends we've known in many cases for years - I suspect Fushigi, James, and the many faces of Gary H of being in that category.

We love new members. We also want to *not* be SR. Since we don't advertise, our growth largely comes from word of mouth. It is slow, and I wish it could be faster, but given the choice of having what is here and having a site overrun by refugees from forums where IM-speak and trash-talk are acceptable behavior (this, to me, is the most disappointing part about the "new" SR), I'll take what's here.

 

[CougTek]

I just blessed SR's forum with my presence a few minutes ago. Happy?

Maybe we should create a new user named "The Saver" and another one being called "The Messiah" and pour our infinite wisdom into SR once again?

[/under drugs mode --- coffee was strong]

I still do visit SR's froum every once in a while, but there's no way it will become my first stop over here. Same reason as Mercutio.

 

[P5-133XL]

I am basically a lurker, but I contribute occasionally to SR, but rarely to SF, because I no longer am comfortable in SF.

Ahh, but you can't see the reverse? Some of us put our soul into SR and were seriously hurt buy SR. Not merely by the loss of the database but the decision to close down; Yes, I know that they didn't close in the end, but I still emotionally distanced myself substantially when that was announanced. I visit SR regularly, but only occasionally post. I'm just not comfortable at SR, compared to here. Though, even here I post far less than I used to.

 

[LunarMist]

Posting at SR can be a waste of time. Many of the youngsters are not interested in listening or learning, since they already know everything. After all, if they read something on another amateur web site it must be true. :roll:

Another of my frequented sites (not computer hardware) lost its BBS recently. Why these are not properly backed up I'll never know, but I now save threads of interest on the spot. I'm sure many wish they had done so at SR.

 

[Mickey]

Posting at SR can be a waste of time. Many of the youngsters are not interested in listening or learning, since they already know everything. After all, if they read something on another amateur web site it must be true. :roll:

Perhaps. Still, it's why I ever bother teaching folks at work: if at least one person takes the lesson to heart and makes use of it, it's worth my time.

I do agree that SR seems to have a regular influx of new "less-than-polite" posters. It's unfortunate, but I hope the rest of us can keep them from spreading too much FUD, no?

 

[zx]

I like it here because there is not too much people. I can actually keep track of topic and posts. The discussion seems to be more "alive" and I actually get responses to my posts .

Beyond the reasons Merc enumerated, my main reason for not returning to SR much is that there is too much people, too much topic, too much posts. I like it here because it is a relatively small community.

Plus, the bar and grille section is not very recommendable. Before, there were trolls and insults. But there was still a relative amount of decent posting. Now, it's hard not to find trolling in the B&G.

I still visit (and somtimes post) at SR. But much less often that before.

 

[Prof.Wizard]

I like it here because there is not too much people. I can actually keep track of topic and posts. The discussion seems to be more "alive" and I actually get responses to my posts .

IMHO, SR suffers from the current configuration of the forums.
I mean, 5 forums for 15K+ users? It should have at least 10, for every PC on- and off- topic.

Eugene also needs more moderators. When I say moderators I mean really-interested guys who would like to help 24/7 and know the field and edit and forward threads to newbies, not autarchic teenagers who like to bully because they have gained authority.

 

[Fushigi]

Some of us are still frequent posters on SR. I am. Pradeep is. PW is. jtr is. Some of us don't have the time or energy to sort through all the crap on SR, and so visit here, to socialize with friends we've known in many cases for years - I suspect Fushigi, James, and the many faces of Gary H of being in that category.

Certainly in my case Mercutio suspects correctly.

The amount of time I have to surf and post is limited. I work more than full time and have a lengthy commute, am married, have household responsibilities, devote time to my pets, and have other hobbies. Occasionally I even sleep more than 6 hours a night.

I can only devote so much time to the internet. I don't really have the spare time (or desire) to skim subject lines or read enough of a thread to determine it's relevance to me. Threads here have at least an 80% chance of containing info I want to read about. I can't say that about any other forums on the 'net so SF is where I choose to spend my time.

I go to SR occasionally (less than quarterly) to read about a drive. I don't hit the forums at all. The last time I checked it was not a community I'd like to be a part of. If that situation changes, my friends here will likely post something to that effect and I'll consider going back.

BTW, SR is not the only site whose forums I ignore. I don't hit forums at any other technology sites and very rarely do I hit the forums at sites related to my hobbies.

- Fushigi

 

[CityK]

not autarchic teenagers who like to bully because they have gained authority

Are you implying that Charles (Sivar) and Andrew (Balding Ape) are behaving autocratically? Or was that just a qualification you listed for the position of moderator?

If the former, I have never seen evidence to support such a claim. Both are good guys as far as I can tell.

CK

 

[Prof.Wizard]

No, not at all. I know they are good guys. But they are only two!
IMO, a well-moderated board needs to have a 1:1000 moderators:users ratio, adjustable according to the effective traffic. Of course there is no rule because it depends on how many persons post, how many sections there are, the "SNR" ratio, etc.

SR needs at least 10 mods and I'm not exaggerating.

 

[Groltz]

SR needs at least 10 mods and I'm not exaggerating.

Did you get your self-nomination submitted? :wink:

 

[Mercutio]

I actually have a problem with one of SR's mods... I was joking around with the former russofris (Big Buck Hunter) about his new nick in relation to an SR member and member here. Quoted a bit of a Futurama episode in full context (with several smilies etc).

The whole post was deleted, like it wasn't ever there, probably within five minutes.

I'd argue that there's certainly overzealousness on the part of the mods they have now. This is particularly distressing given the general behavior that they do tolerate.

 

[CougTek]

IMHO,...

Right there, I knew what was to follow would be, for sure, of Nobel price nomination level.

Eugene also needs more moderators. When I say moderators I mean really-interested guys who would like to help 24/7 and know the field and edit and forward threads to newbies, not autarchic teenagers who like to bully because they have gained authority.

You're absolutely right. And I'm sure that everyone else here thought, just like I did, about you for being the next one to be nominated as moderator at StorageReview.com. I even sent a PM to Eugene to submit you. Really.

However, being the bastard you so much know me to be, I also included a link to this thread in my PM to Eugene... Oh, and I also couldn't stop myself to copy/pasted this post from you in that PM :

And why not Handruin, Buck, Koggit, iGary,... [blah blah]..., and myself?
Is it who comes first gets the place? So, should I blame Tannin for having my e-mail address wrong and didn't come a couple of weeks earlier?

Hey, I know and understand that all this sounds and is trivial... but I'm really upset so many things in these forums are beyond my control without a real reason, and without knowing it for so long...

I understand that "someone has to do the job"... CouchTest for the frontpage, Tannin-Mercutio for the moding, etc... but I wanna know the procedures of getting that persons to the jobs.

And CouchTest is dreaming when the sun is up here in Europe. We need to place another guy there ASAP. One is not enough.
(handruin has access in that page but he lives in the States too- same issue)

PS. I don't mean I don't find trustworthy the members of the oh-mighty High Priest Council , but why am I considered a "mortal" in a forum I believe I contribute so much (on and off topic)...?
PPS. What's hidden in SF?

P.S. I'm such a jerk... :twistd:

P.P.S. I really did sent that PM to Eugene.:diablo:

 

[P5-133XL]

I had completely forgotten about that thread and the arguement that I, as a member of the oh-mighty high priest council, had with, the mere mortal, P.W. Thanks Coug, it was an enjoyable read and rememberance.

 

[flagreen]

I actually have a problem with one of SR's mods... I was joking around with the former russofris (Big Buck Hunter) about his new nick in relation to an SR member and member here. Quoted a bit of a Futurama episode in full context (with several smilies etc).

The whole post was deleted, like it wasn't ever there, probably within five minutes.

I'd argue that there's certainly overzealousness on the part of the mods they have now. This is particularly distressing given the general behavior that they do tolerate.

The mods there don't have the power to delete or edit posts. Only Eugene and Davin do.

 

[CityK]

I actually have a problem with one of SR's mods... I was joking around with the former russofris (Big Buck Hunter) about his new nick in relation to an SR member and member here. Quoted a bit of a Futurama episode in full context (with several smilies etc).

The whole post was deleted, like it wasn't ever there, probably within five minutes

Umm, you mean this one?

CK

 

[Santilli]

Thanks: But...

IIRC, the boys needed us ALL to be on board with the program, and I think they needed us to sell the success of THEIR board.

Nice they had it, buy Gary H, Tannin, Etc. ARE Storage Review.com.

Eugene and Davin provided a place for their wisdom, and, when the cost of the board got to be a bit, it just kind of got lost.

Now some of us think this happened for a reason, PBS is expensive, and, if you are an idiot(Davin, & Eugene?), and pay a lot, it can be too much for a site to bear.


That said, after our history went down, fuck em. Davin and Eugene can shove it up their ass, as far as I'm concerned, and, they certainly tried to do that to me.

Guess liking scsi didn't work with their programs, or sales programs.

The irony is, despite their bullshit, 4 cheetahs, on a 160 raid card, at 110 Mb/sec, still function, after three years, and have blinding access speed,
despite their ide love, and, my slowest cheetah, a 15k generation one, is still faster then their new raptor Ide drive, by quite a bit, 4 years later.

Now, I know, you really want to know what I think, without the sugar coating....

s

 

[Santilli]

Heresy, by the way, are FANTASTIC, old, Klipisch speakers, that make a surround sound simply ROCK....
s

 

[Prof.Wizard]

I'm such a jerk...

Unfortunately,
you don't hurt my feelings. Who knows how many clients you lost while copying and pasting all these quotes of mine... :lol:
When SR was back online I did ask Eugene if he was searching for moderators and that I wanted to help bring back the forums to their original glory and extent. That's not something I have to be ashame of.

had completely forgotten about that thread and the arguement that I, as a member of the oh-mighty high priest council, had with, the mere mortal, P.W. Thanks Coug, it was an enjoyable read and rememberance.

Well, you seem to confuse StorageReview with StorageForum. By the time I asked Eugene if he wanted help SR had already again more than 5000 users and no mods. On the other hand SF was with almost 100 most of them double and triple schizophrenic personalities of our own personas. SF didn't and doesn't need moderation and WON'T need until either SR is dead or we meet a critical mass of 500-1000 unique users, who also post, not the occasional Joe.

 

[Santilli]

In perfect, Socratic style, the only board I've ever been considered for as a moderator, doesn't need me, which is a perfect model for the ideal, philosopher/king.
He who will, if forced, do office, but, would like not too....
s

 

[P5-133XL]

had completely forgotten about that thread and the arguement that I, as a member of the oh-mighty high priest council, had with, the mere mortal, P.W. Thanks Coug, it was an enjoyable read and rememberance.

Well, you seem to confuse StorageReview with StorageForum. By the time I asked Eugene if he wanted help SR had already again more than 5000 users and no mods. On the other hand SF was with almost 100 most of them double and triple schizophrenic personalities of our own personas. SF didn't and doesn't need moderation and WON'T need until either SR is dead or we meet a critical mass of 500-1000 unique users, who also post, not the occasional Joe.

I don't understand how your comment applies to mine; I just don't see where the confusion between SF and SR exists in my post. I don't see where I referenced the scale of the two sites. Basicly, as far as I can see, your comments don't apply to your quoting of me. So why quote me?

Perhaps because I'm (in)famous as a member of the oh-mighty high priest council and it matters not the context. It's like the cover photograph of a model on a magazine - Simply there to attract attention and has nothing to do with the content of the Mag.

 

[Prof.Wizard]

I might like your Avatar. :roll:
I quoted you because your irony seemed to agree with CouchTest's post.

 

[flagreen]

Actually I think SR is doing fine overall considering all they have been through. Even if it folded tommorrow it's a miracle that Eugene and Davin have kept it alive for as long as they have. They are up to 15,000 members in a fairly short time. Soon they'll be back to where they were before the massive data loss.

None of us here ever tried to make a living from just a web site. So before we get too heavy with the criticism we might want to consider the wisdom of "walk a mile in my shoes". It took a lot of guts, sacrifice and backbone for Eugene and Davin to kept it alive for as long as they have.

Prof - Comments about people's looks is about as low and childish as you can get. If you're any kind of man at all, you'll apologize for having done so whether anyone apologizes to you or not.

 

[Santilli]

Hey Bill!!!
How's life!!! Don't answer, just glad to see you around...

If you are up at this hour, life sucks...

:mrgrn: :mrgrn:

s

 

[Prof.Wizard]

Actually I think SR is doing fine overall considering all they have been through. Even if it folded tommorrow it's a miracle that Eugene and Davin have kept it alive for as long as they have. They are up to 15,000 members in a fairly short time. Soon they'll be back to where they were before the massive data loss.

None of us here ever tried to make a living from just a web site. So before we get too heavy with the criticism we might want to consider the wisdom of "walk a mile in my shoes". It took a lot of guts, sacrifice and backbone for Eugene and Davin to kept it alive for as long as they have.

Rightly said.

Prof - Comments about people's looks is about as low and childish as you can get. If you're any kind of man at all, you'll apologize for having done so whether anyone apologizes to you or not.

:?: :eekers: :?:
I didn't comment negatively on Mark's photo.
Actually I didn't comment at. I only wanted an ironic opening sentence because I thought he was responding to me in the same way.

 

[time]

Don't worry, Prof, I think Bill stayed up too late.

15,000 users, eh? Hmmm.

SF supposedly has 220 members, but I'd guess that translates into around 50 distinct humans that are active and less than 100 that still visit.

I'd be surprised if SR has more than 150 active members and 500 that still visit.

SR's computer forum is about 4 times the size of our Computer and Tech Support forums.

The Bar & Grille is roughly twice the size of our Pub and Brewery.

Significantly, we have a whopping 2000 posts in 180 threads in Feedback. Of course, SR doesn't actually have open slather feedback, just comments on their 26 reviews. :roll:

And that describes the problem very well: if you want to have a say, you've got little chance of a response at SR. Whereas here, you'll probably drown in the flood ...

Anyway, my point is that after you strip out the noise, there is already way more content here than in the SR forums. It would be nice if we had what's left as well, but I don't know if you can have it both ways.

JSF, I really don't think anyone here will bite off your head if your posts lack expertise. And the Tech Support forum exists for anyone to ask questions. In these respects, Storage Forum would be a far more comfortable place for you to post than SR!

 

[Buck]

Like SR, we also have a high ratio of Views versus Replies to a thread. For me, this indicates that our relatively small group enjoys reading each other's posts, but don't necessarily see the need to always voice our opinion.

 

[Mercutio]

SR has a LOT of people with around 100 posts. Many don't visit all that often, but contribute when they do. In a real way SR is a very loose community while SF (lots of people with 250+ posts, and lots with fewer than 5) is a very close one.

 

[jtr1962]

In a real way SR is a very loose community while SF (lots of people with 250+ posts, and lots with fewer than 5) is a very close one.

That pretty much sums it up. I seem to go in spurts where I'll post a lot on SR and then disappear for a while. I'm a bit more consistent on SF because I can usually find one or two topics of interest. A year ago I think my SR post count was about 200 ahead of my SF one. It was only about 60 posts ahead until my recent spate of SR posting but if I had to bet I'd say I'll reach 1000 posts here first.

There is a marked difference between the two communities. I'll post much more personal stuff over here. For example, this thread where I poured out my grief over the loss of Tiger was something I wouldn't put on SR in a million years. While I'm sure many there would be sympathetic or at least understanding, I have little doubt that you would have insensitive trolls making hurtful comments. I'm guessing for similar reasons Mercutio has kept most of the details of the last year of his life in this place rather than SR. That being said, I still wish there was more worth contributing to on SR since it was the community that bought all of us at SF together in the first place. To say the SR forums are a shadow of their former selves is no exaggeration. Whether many old timers left because the forums started changing or the old timers leaving caused the forums to change can be debated, but the meltdown didn't help. Even before I was in the habit of saving any thread of interest. Now I do it religiously since I know it may not be there the next day. While I know mistakes happen, the whole MBF just left a bad taste in my mouth and I'm sure many others here feel the same. There were many threads that people poured their heart and soul into. To have them just wiped out like that hurts.

 

[flagreen]

Hey Bill!!!
How's life!!! Don't answer, just glad to see you around...

If you are up at this hour, life sucks...

:mrgrn: :mrgrn:

s

Hey Greg!

Good to hear from you again. Life sucks? It did yesterday. I got dumped twice in one day. That's a record for The Giver. I'm such a sweatheart, I just don't get it! Oh well, it only means there's opening for two more at my table so to speak.

Prof - I did stay up too late. My apologies.
Bill

 

[LunarMist]

Re: Thanks: But...

Guess liking scsi didn't work with their programs, or sales programs.

The irony is, despite their bullshit, 4 cheetahs, on a 160 raid card, at 110 Mb/sec, still function, after three years, and have blinding access speed,
despite their ide love, and, my slowest cheetah, a 15k generation one, is still faster then their new raptor Ide drive, by quite a bit, 4 years later.

Now, I know, you really want to know what I think, without the sugar coating....

s

Oh Greg, you will never change. I like that. If I could only afford a few TB of 15K SCSI speed...

 

[blakerwry]

only 1?

 

[Santilli]

It's been a hard couple years here.

Seems like when I think things are going to mellow out for awhile, they get worse...

s

 

[Will Rickards WT]

Time is a limited resource.
You go where your questions will get answered and your answers will be heard.

 

[Mercutio]

It's been a hard couple years here.

Seems like when I think things are going to mellow out for awhile, they get worse...

s

I know the feeling, man.