TVs and things

[jtr1962]

Thanks for the tips and feedback jtr. What brand/type of solder should I use for this kind of repair with respect to tin/lead and rosin/flux, etc? I'm going to dig out the soldering iron I have to see what kind of wattage it has and whatever kind of solder I might have with it. I had this Stahl Tools SSVT Variable Temperature Soldering Station on my bookmark list for some Arduino projects I was looking to get into but hadn't yet. Its max wattage is at the minimum you recommend. I could pick up one of these desoldering pumps to clean out the old solder or some of the soldering braid like you mentioned. This video looks pretty straight forward on cleaning out the old solder with the braid.

Are the replacement capacitors I linked to look ok in terms of specs? You mentioned the polymer ones but I haven't been able to find an appropriate one to replace these.

Regular lead solder with rosin flux should work fine here. The board is probably made with lead-free solder to comply with regulations but for a repair lead solder is easier to work with.

The replacement caps seem OK to me. It took 7 years for the old ones to fail. Assuming this is the problem, and your repair fixes it, the TV will most likely last until the TVs you're interested in come down in price. I looked into 2200uF, 10V solid caps but they don't exist at Mouser. The highest voltage for 2200 uF solid caps is 6.3V. They do have 1500 uF, 10V solid caps but without knowing more about the circuit I couldn't recommend using a different value. Also, the ones they have are surface mount, not the type with leads, so they wouldn't work here.

 

[P5-133XL]

Totally agree. Fewer, better things.

I disagree, when there are children in a household then disposable and/or indestructible things have more value than nice or better things.

 

[Handruin]

Regular lead solder with rosin flux should work fine here. The board is probably made with lead-free solder to comply with regulations but for a repair lead solder is easier to work with.

The replacement caps seem OK to me. It took 7 years for the old ones to fail. Assuming this is the problem, and your repair fixes it, the TV will most likely last until the TVs you're interested in come down in price. I looked into 2200uF, 10V solid caps but they don't exist at Mouser. The highest voltage for 2200 uF solid caps is 6.3V. They do have 1500 uF, 10V solid caps but without knowing more about the circuit I couldn't recommend using a different value. Also, the ones they have are surface mount, not the type with leads, so they wouldn't work here.

Thanks again. I appreciate your input and research. I've ordered the parts I need and they should be here in a few days. I'm fine with replacing the caps with what existed originally. If it gets me another two to three more years I'll be ecstatic. There are several other caps on the various controller boards that could go bad in the next year or two or even be bad now. I'll know more in a few days.

 

[ddrueding]

I disagree, when there are children in a household then disposable and/or indestructible things have more value than nice or better things.

With a kid in the house "indestructable" certainly factors more strongly into "better". And everything needs to be some level of disposable; the nice office chairs for the house have been put on hold for at least 5 years.

 

[Stereodude]

That's great and I'm happy for you. You also must value watching a TV more than I do which makes it a more enjoyable purchase for yourself. Spending additional money for a nicer TV makes more sense for you. When I bought my current TV I did pay a decent amount for it and now 7 years later it's on a second failure/repair (first was under warranty thankfully). I'm not too keen on spending that kind of money again to go through the same crap.

Apologies if my comment came off snarky. That wasn't my intention. What I was trying to say is that in the past I've always focused on bang for the buck and tried to buy something that's at the knee of that "value" curve. More recently I've been much more willing to buy something that might not be at the right spot on the curve if it has features I want even if some of those features make the item's cost out of whack.

My first HDTV purchase was a Hitachi 57" RP-CRT in August 2008 that I'm still using today. So far it is still going strong and repair free. Some of these full array local dimming sets should be able to offer a better picture in all respects. Areas where I'd like to improve are no overscan, perfect geometry, better daylight viewing, and no internal reflections (improved ANSI contrast in high APL scenes). If I buy a TV in the sweet spot for bang for the buck I would have to make a compromise on dark room / black level performance in order to get those improvements. I'm unwilling to do that, so I'm left looking at pretty expensive TVs to have my cake and eat it too.

With all that said, I'm not buying a 65" Sony TV for $8k regardless of how well it performs unless it was a flat UHD OLED with amazing image quality.

 

[mubs]

Everybody tells me Hitachis are rock solid, whatever the product - air conditioner, refrigerator, TV, other appliances. My limited experience with their products makes me agree.

 

[Stereodude]

Everybody tells me Hitachis are rock solid, whatever the product - air conditioner, refrigerator, TV, other appliances. My limited experience with their products makes me agree.

FWIW, I've got a typo up there. It's August of 2004.

 

[Handruin]

My parts should all arrive Friday. I'll attempt the capacitor replacement then and see what happens. What are people's opinions on having an older TV serviced? Assuming my fix doesn't solve the issue, the price so far that I can get is $89 for a service call and that fee will be applied to the parts and labor if I decide to have the TV fixed. The cost to fix it is unknown but some findings online suggest between $300-$400 for power supply related fixes. That's a decent chunk of money to put back into an older TV. I could decide to eat the $89 and not go ahead with the fix and just buy a new TV at that point.

 

[Stereodude]

Who are you calling? Samsung, or a local repair shop? Does the fact that you've poked around and already replaced components affect their willingness to work on the set? Or, are you planning to not mention that?

 

[Handruin]

Who are you calling? Samsung, or a local repair shop? Does the fact that you've poked around and already replaced components affect their willingness to work on the set? Or, are you planning to not mention that?

I called Samsung but they won't deal direct with me so they dispatch to a local TV place. I did not mention the fact that I've poked around or that I'm attempting to fix it myself. When I first called them I hadn't poked around yet. If I decide to go that route I will inform them of the caps I replaced.

 

[timwhit]

I'd just replace it. You can get a no frills Vizio or Samsung 55" for less than $800.

 

[Handruin]

Replacing the capacitors seems to have worked. The TV turned on immediately. I turned it off and on several times without issue. Hopefully it remains working. It has only been on for about a half hour so far but no weird issues.

Thanks everyone for the help. I'm very excited about the fix. I hope it lasts for a while.

 

[ddrueding]

Awesome. Congrats on getting your hands dirty (figuratively if nothing else )

 

[Handruin]

Awesome. Congrats on getting your hands dirty (figuratively if nothing else )

Thanks. I'm super stoked that it's working. What I'm also noticing is the picture quality is better. I'm no longer seeing animated green sparkles in the black areas of the screen and there is no longer a ghosting shadow on dark contrasty parts of a TV program. I'll investigate it more tomorrow with more sources but so far it seemed to have fixed more than one issue.

 

[Stereodude]

Replacing the capacitors seems to have worked. The TV turned on immediately. I turned it off and on several times without issue. Hopefully it remains working. It has only been on for about a half hour so far but no weird issues.

Thanks everyone for the help. I'm very excited about the fix. I hope it lasts for a while.

Well now how am I supposed to talk you into buying a new TV? :frowner:

j/k Congrats on your inexpensive repair. I will probably have to do the same in the future. I have a LCD that's one of the affected models. It's seen very little use though (it wasn't a very smart purchase).

 

[mubs]

Congrats Handy. Now keep a watch out for any potential mischief by the other original caps.

 

[Handruin]

Well now how am I supposed to talk you into buying a new TV? :frowner:

j/k Congrats on your inexpensive repair. I will probably have to do the same in the future. I have a LCD that's one of the affected models. It's seen very little use though (it wasn't a very smart purchase).

There's always the good possibility that this fix doesn't last more than a week. :-D It did turn back on this morning though. Fixed day +1 and counting.

 

[Handruin]

Congrats Handy. Now keep a watch out for any potential mischief by the other original caps.

I was thinking the same thing after putting all 40 screws back into the TV. Other than strange behavior I don't think I'll be opening the TV back up again for a while.

 

[jtr1962]

Thanks. I'm super stoked that it's working. What I'm also noticing is the picture quality is better. I'm no longer seeing animated green sparkles in the black areas of the screen and there is no longer a ghosting shadow on dark contrasty parts of a TV program. I'll investigate it more tomorrow with more sources but so far it seemed to have fixed more than one issue.

I'm not surprised at all that the other issues are fixed. Power supply problems cause a whole host of things besides just making a TV not work. The symptoms you mentioned were an early warning that the power supply was starting to go. Anyway, congratulations on fixing the problem. Now let's hope it stays fixed until you're in the market for a new set.

 

[Striker]

Replacing the capacitors seems to have worked. The TV turned on immediately. I turned it off and on several times without issue. Hopefully it remains working. It has only been on for about a half hour so far but no weird issues.

Thanks everyone for the help. I'm very excited about the fix. I hope it lasts for a while.

Nicely done, not many things feel quite as good as fixing or building something yourself that you've never done before.

 

[ddrueding]

My JVC D-ILA DLA-X3-BU projector has picked up an occasional twitch since the bulb went a couple months ago. Works great 99% of the time, but about once a week it flickers a couple times and becomes unresponsive. Expect to see it FS here once its replacement is determined.

On that note, I'm looking for just a TV this time around; the kid watches stuff during the day and the demand is more sporadic than our pre-kid days.

At the moment my range is wide open, from a 65" 1080P to a 75" 4k. This 70" 4K from Vizio seems a compelling value. This will be used purely as a giant monitor. Single input, no smart features will be used.

 

[Mercutio]

The 4k Vizio and LG sets would be right at the top of my list if my current TV were something less than 18 months old. I'm not sure it's worth doubling the price to look at an 85" above and beyond the cost of a 70" one. They all seem relatively affordable for someone who is plugged in enough to want something like that.

 

[ddrueding]

After reading some reviews, I'm pretty happy with the Visio. Just not sure whether going from 65" to 70" is worth $500.

 

[snowhiker]

After reading some reviews, I'm pretty happy with the Visio. Just not sure whether going from 65" to 70" is worth $500.

Is the only difference between the sets screen size or are there other/better features on the higher end sets?

It's $300 to go from 60" to 65". 17% larger area for 20% more dollars.
It's $500 to go from 65" to 70". 16% larger area for 28% more dollars.
It's $800 to go from 60" to 70". 36% larger area for 53% more dollars.

60" vs 65"
65" vs 70"
60" vs 70"

The price premium to get to 65" seems reasonable, but the jump to 70" seems high. But the top-of-the-line is always a big jump in price.

Another thing to consider is that TVs are no longer 10-15+ year purchases but maybe 5 year purchases. So if you want the latest and greatest it'll be "easier" to upgrade if you only spent $1500 (60") vs $2300 (70").

But most importantly, especially with someone who makes a decent living and really likes nice things is, how much is the "DAMN!!!, I should have just gotten the larger set!" buyers remorse going to upset you? Especially with your philosophy of "Fewer, Better things" you mentioned a few posts back.

 

[ddrueding]

Thanks for the feedback guys. snowhiker, that comparison is particularly useful. I have no idea about the other features because I am 100% confident that I won't be using any of them. The receiver this TV will connect to will only have two inputs; one will mirror my wife's screen and the other will mirror mine.

 

[Stereodude]

At the moment my range is wide open, from a 65" 1080P to a 75" 4k. This 70" 4K from Vizio seems a compelling value. This will be used purely as a giant monitor. Single input, no smart features will be used.

Make sure whatever UHD TV you buy has at least one full 18gbps HDMI 2.0 port. Otherwise you will find it doesn't work too well as a monitor from a PC because you will be limited to 4:2:0 chroma when you try to drive it 3840x2160 @ 60Hz from a PC.

 

[ddrueding]

Make sure whatever UHD TV you buy has at least one full 18gbps HDMI 2.0 port. Otherwise you will find it doesn't work too well as a monitor from a PC because you will be limited to 4:2:0 chroma when you try to drive it 3840x2160 @ 60Hz from a PC.

An excellent point. Seems the 70" P-series Vizio has one input (port 5) that is full HDMI 2.0.

 

[snowhiker]

Make sure whatever UHD TV you buy has at least one full 18gbps HDMI 2.0 port. Otherwise you will find it doesn't work too well as a monitor from a PC because you will be limited to 4:2:0 chroma when you try to drive it 3840x2160 @ 60Hz from a PC.

The "full 18 gbps HDMI 2.0 port" WILL allow 4:4:4 is different that MUST allow.

"Here's Vizio support's statement on their new P-Series 4k TVs:

Our current lineup of P series TVs do not support 4:4:4 Chroma at 60Hz in the 4k 60hz resolution. 4:4:4 Chroma @ 60Hz can be done in 1080p, 1080i, 720p and 480p. The only 60Hz chroma supported in 4k resolution is 4:2:0, otherwise drop down to 30Hz to get 4:4:4."

""Will allow" is the phrase of the day. "Will allow" doesn't mean "must allow" According the the 3500-post "official P-series owner's thread" (can't link that for some reason) at the AVS forums... the HDMI 2.0 and 4:4:4 is gimped, possibly due to HDCP 2.2. It seems the only sets that *might*allow 4:4:4 are a few of the LG sets, which have horrible display lag."

Forum posts here and here.

Don't know if there was/is a firmware fix, or if those post are outdated, or if those posters are FOS, but beware nevertheless.

 

[Stereodude]

An 18gbps port has to allow 4:4:4 at 60Hz. The Vizio and most other TVs don't have one. They only have a 10.2gbps HDMI 2.0 port.

The other option is a TV with DisplayPort. I think only Panasonic has DP.

 

[Mercutio]

In other words, wait for a new model year.

 

[Stereodude]

In other words, wait for a new model year.

Maybe. The problem with the 2014 models was that there weren't chips available with both HDCP 2.2 and 18gbps HDMI 2.0. Those chips became available from Silicon Image last fall. It seems strange they haven't found their way into the 2015 TV models.

However, I was under the impression that a lot of the 2014 models had at least one port that could do 18gbps HDMI 2.0, but that port was limited to HDCP 1.4 and they had other ports that were 10.2gbps HDMI 2.0 with HDCP 2.2. If your using a UHD TV as a PC monitor the former port type should work since the PC doesn't care about HDCP.

 

[ddrueding]

Wow, thanks for the info guys. I think I'll just sit back and watch this happen for a while. If I need to I can throw a <$1k 65" 1080P up there until things get sorted out.

 

[snowhiker]

Wow, thanks for the info guys. I think I'll just sit back and watch this happen for a while. If I need to I can throw a <$1k 65" 1080P up there until things get sorted out.

As much as you want to get the latest and greatest, waiting right now might be the best bet unless you can 100% confirm all the specs meet your needs. The first run of sets might not "completely" meet all the specs, "completely."

 

[time]

I really wanted to start a new thread with the title "F**k Google", but this will have to do for now.

We have two "smart" TVs, Sony as it happens, and a Panasonic BluRay player with similar bundled services. In the end, that boils down to YouTube and a bunch of useless stuff (NetFlix has only been launched here in the last few weeks). So tonight, my wife gets a warning message when she tries to access YouTube, that says YouTube access will cease for the device on April 20. That's just 17 days notice.

Here's the mealy-mouthed explanation.

There's a link to a YouTube forum populated by increasingly irate people (as the deadline gets closer). They've got nothing on me - I only bought these sets in June 2013 and the BluRay player in 2014 (as their website says, the soon-to-be-obsolete API was only rolled out in 2012).

Unfortunately, nothing Google does surprises me anymore. They're way worse than Microsoft and Apple. So a big "FUCK YOU Google!" from everyone with big-screen Sony or Panasonic TVs (at least).

 

[Stereodude]

How come Sony and Panasonic have escaped your wrath? They chose to implement an old API and have not issued a firmware update. Presumably the software running on the embedded processor in the TV is upgradeable.

 

[timwhit]

The manufacturers had a year to upgrade and they didn't. This doesn't really sound like a Google issue to me.

 

[Mercutio]

This kind of bullshit is why I tell people that they're better off with STBs that incorporate internet functionality rather than leaving it up to the TV itself. Can't you get Roku or even Chromecast down there?

 

[CougTek]

I agree with Timwhit. You are blaming the wrong company. What you can blame them for, perhaps, is the very short notification time.

 

[Handruin]

I'm also of the opinion of buying non-smart TVs and just using the STBs like Mercutio suggested. They're cheaper and easier to replace and get updates frequently. TVs, BR devices, etc only have a limited market lifespan and once the next model comes out, good luck getting updates to your TV, BR, etc. Both my TV and BR devices are 7-8 years old but there's no more updates for them. I can't use the built-in apps in my BR devices because they either don't connect or are so functionally useless now.

 

[Chewy509]

Can't you get Roku or even Chromecast down there?

Unsure about Roku, but I've got 2x Chromecast that we use with different apps on our TVs (mainly Presto and Youtube).

Whilst we've got a Sony TV that is most likely affected (KDL40CX520 - approx 4yr old), we have found the YouTube app on the TV is limited compared to using a tablet+chromecast that we mainly do YouTube via the tablet/chromecast...