Whatever happened to A vs A?

[Tea]

Crikey, the moderation here has gone a bit overboard. I logged in just now to read the A vs A mega-thread, and it isn't here!

 

[Tannin]

A vs A? What are you talking about, small hairy confused one?

 

[Tea]

Apple vs Adobe, of course, what else?

 

[Tannin]

There was an Apple vs Adobe thread here? I must have missed it.

 

[Tea]

That's because you haven't logged on for three months.

 

[Tannin]

Well, OK, but neither have you. So how dod you get to know about the Storage Forum Apple vs Adobe Mega-thread then? Never mind how you know it was censored.

 

[Tea]

Guessed

 

[Tannin]

Guessed. You think guessed is good enough for you to go shouting accusations at Handruin, then do you?

 

[Tea]

Yes.

Well, I mean, it stands to reason. THere has to be a Storage Forum Applv vs Adobe Mega-thread. Couldn't not be one. Not with Steve Jobs releasing a new iPox that can't even surf the web - because let's face it, 75% of all websites use Flash these days, so releasing a 10 inch telephone that can't display most major websites has to be a major, major screw up.

Er .... where was I? Yes, so Jobbsie announces the new Apple iDud and spends half of the following week (when he is supposed to be spruiking it) running down Adobe Flash, and blaming Flash for 9 out of 10 Mac crashes.

 

[Tannin]

Jobs reckons Flash causes 9 out of 10 Mac crashes?

 

[Tea]

Yep.

 

[Tannin]

Horsemanure!

Everybody knows that Apple Quicktime causes 11 crashes out of 10 - I don't care how bad you say Flash is, nothing is worse than Quicktime.

 

[Tea]

Corel Painshop Pro?

 

[Tannin]

Nope.

 

[Tea]

Microsoft Internet Explorer?

 

[Tannin]

Nope.  

 

[Tea]

Microsoft Internet Explorer version 6.0?

 

[Tannin]

Nope. Err ..... let me think about that. .... Um ... OK. Bit of a close call, but the answer is still nope.

 

[Tea]

Adobe Acrobat Reader?

 

[Tannin]

Hmmm .... Nope.

 

[Tea]

Photoslug CS4?

 

[Tannin]

Nope.

 

[Tea]

Outbreak Express?

 

[Tannin]

Nope.  

 

[Tea]

Macafee junk? Microsoft Frontpage? Norton anything?

 

[Tannin]

Good point. OK, nothing is worse than Quicktime except Microsoft Frontpage, Mcafee, and anything made by Symantec. Happy now?

 

[Tea]

Whatever.

The main thing is that here we have Mr Software King-of-Crap accusing Adobe of producing a Flash player so bad that they (Apple_ won't have it on their underpowered new iPlod. Strikes me that there is an extraordinary irony there.

 

[Tannin]

Too right there is, small one! Funniest thing I've read in many a year.

 

[Tea]

So I came over here to watch the fun.

You know .... thread started as a straight news item by Coug or Handruin.

Merc wades in and delivers the ultimate Adobe Sucks Rant.

The mad Apple Fanboy (remind me of his name, Tannin, slips my mind at the moment) writes 17 pages of impassioned posts probably intended to restore God to his Rightful Place at the right hand of Steve, but no-one is really sure because the logic (if any) rambles all over the place and is quite hard to follow, not to mention that everyone has him on ignore.

One foolish poster quotes the Mad Apple Fanboy to refute him, exposing his rants to all.

Pretty much the entire Storage Forum community wades in to dump a large pile of shite on Apple, Apple fanboys, and (in the case of the more intelligent and industry-savvy ones) also dump a pile on Adobe.

Some fool mentions the S Word.

Merc flies into a towering rage and types sustained and inventive abuse of the S Company until his keyboard dissolves in foaming spittle.

Then Tannin gets .....

--------------------------------
Well, you see, Tannin. this is where it all falls down. (A) you are not here. And (b) the damn thread does not exist!

 

[ddrueding]

You guys have been dearly missed. Welcome back. What stories of adventure do you bring?

 

[Tea]

Oh, nothing in particular, Dave. Bit of this, bit of that. Good to be back here.

When you get down to it, we just don't really believe that Storage Forum isn't all over the Apple vs Adobe thing like a rash.

I mean, what a fantastic story!

You could summarise the opening as: "scum calls scum scum; scum denies scumhood, calls other scum scum" and go on from there.

Well, Tannin could.

I wouldn't put it like that, but then I'm not generally as kind and polite as he is.

 

[udaman]

So I came over here to watch the fun.

You know .... thread started as a straight news item by Coug or Handruin.

Merc wades in and delivers the ultimate Adobe Sucks Rant.

The mad Apple Fanboy (remind me of his name, Tannin, slips my mind at the moment) writes 17 pages of impassioned posts probably intended to restore God to his Rightful Place at the right hand of Steve,
Pretty much the entire Storage Forum community wades in to dump a large pile of shite on Apple, Apple fanboys, and (in the case of the more intelligent and industry-savvy ones) also dump a pile on Adobe.

Will these threads do Tea?

Ya gotta scroll...er, I mean multi-touch/swipe (U know, the stuff Apple made *every* one else *copy* bcuz it's so bad to have innovation, unlike Ur tannin/tea fav. M$blows Windoze 7, et al...stop using craptastic M$ software and ur life will change forever/for better ) down the forum just a tad like 5 or 6 topics below this one??? need ur eyes fixed as well as ur brain???, not much but U know, I realize for a baboon it's difficult, lol:




iPod>iPhone>iPad
http://www.storageforum.net/forum/showthread.php?t=7991


iPhone syndrome
http://www.storageforum.net/forum/showthread.php?t=7941

Adobe Flash is *evil*...stop supporting satan!!!

btw: QT HD rulz! Pro (that means 'professional', not playgrrrl/playboyz like u 2) vid content creators/users know this to be true.

Microsloth tries to appear important instead of more irrelevant than ever


http://www.electronista.com/articles/10/02/04/ms.pr.says.effect.more.important.than.problems/

Microsoft corporate communications head Frank Shaw has quickly rejected former VP Dick Brass' assertions that the company is no longer innovative by citing examples of what Shaw views as success

http://www.macnn.com/articles/10/01/28/tablet.locks.ibooks.to.apple.hardware.adobe.says/

iPad will rule the world!

Following an embarrassing moment during the iPad announcement, however, when Flash objects did not display on the New York Times website, Adobe has decided to resume its criticism of Apple. Flash has never been supported on devices with the iPhone OS, mainly because of Apple concerns that it could rapidly drain battery life. In rejecting any version of the technology, Adobe suggests that Apple is preventing people from accessing "70 percent of games," as well as "75 percent of video." Sites such as Hulu, ESPN and JibJab are crippled on an iPad.

Regarding ePub, Adobe charges that books bought on an iPad will be inaccessible to other e-readers. While ePub is technically an open standard, Apple is said to have adopted provisions in the format for DRM. Even if competing e-books can be loaded into iBooks, the reverse may not be true. Adobe produces a Mac and Windows e-reader called Digital Editions.

The iBooks criticism is similar to now-defunct complaints about music from the iTunes Store. Although iPods and iPhones have always been able to play unprotected MP3 files, tracks bought through iTunes were for years unplayable on non-Apple hardware. All albums were made DRM-free as of April 2009.

http://www.electronista.com/articles/10/01/30/jobs.takes.on.adobe.and.google.at.meeting/

An inside report from within an Apple town hall meeting has revealed some of CEO Steve Jobs' blunt criticisms, particularly against Google. In the wake of the iPad launch, Jobs claimed the search firm's motto of "Don't Be Evil" is simply "bullsh*t" and that the new rival is fully intent on killing the iPhone with Android despite the companies' partnership on iPhone services. He similarly pointed out that the aggression was largely one-sided and that Apple hadn't entered search.


Notably, the attendee also mentioned to Wired that Jobs called Adobe "lazy" and confirmed the commonly held belief that Apple refuses to offer Flash for the iPhone due to stability. Since Flash is the single most common source of crashes for Safari and even the Mac as a whole, it would likely fare poorly on handhelds as well, he said. Jobs, like some critics, believes many sites will move away from Flash and towards HTML5, which supports direct video streaming without a plugin.

While not part of any public statement, Jobs' comments signal a more determined stance not to be outdone by Android as well as a rejection of Adobe's criticism of the iPad for again abandoning Flash. The software house has argued that Apple isn't providing the whole web, although Apple has countered both by offering an enhanced YouTube app as well as loosening App Store limits to let many third-party developers offer apps that would normally need Flash, such as Qik or Ustream.

 

[Mercutio]

At this point, I have to say that Adobe's shitware is at least as bad and possibly worse than Symantec's. I'm essentially positive that the largest single contributor to browser and OS instability at this point is Flash, and Adobe is positively retrograde in terms of addressing security concerns with its software, with each new version of Flash and Acrobat Reader found to have zero-day exploits that are often left unpatched by Adobe for months. The largest single vector for malware at this point seems to be rouge javascript served through various advertising networks that attacks not the web browser, but some Adobe plug-in or component.

Web users can live without Acrobat reader, but browsing without Flash is at this point painful to most people. I can show someone how to block ads or to use a product like NoScript, but most will find those processes too cumbersome to actually do them.

The fault in that case lies squarely with Adobe, but when I explain this to others I'm met almost uniformly with disbelief.

Also, Tannin, Opera is still a poor substitute for a functional browser, lacking nearly all the amenities I expect from a modern interface to the web. Chrome is quite nice now that it supports some extensions that have largely been taken from Firefox addons, including NoScript and Adblock.

 

[Mercutio]

We also recently tried to beat some sense into Fushigi for his inclusion of S*ny notebooks in the list of what he considered an acceptable portable computer, but S*ny isn't much of a software vendor (Vegas and Acid Loops aside) and is not particularly germane to this discussion.

 

[LunarMist]

Tony,
I believe that Uda was the Mac fanatic, but most people have him blocked out. I'm sure you have read all the (deservedly) derogatory bashing of the iPad.

Flash is awful, but can one do? I have switched to Foxit at least.

 

[udaman]

http://www.appleinsider.com/article...list_lashes_out_at_apple_over_iphone_4_0.html

Adobe vs Flash

But it wasn't too long ago that Adobe was itself trying to kill Flash, back when Flash was owned by Macromedia. Adobe supported SVG as an alternative to doing vector graphics on the web, and promoted SMIL (Synchronized Multimedia Integration Language) as an open specification for presenting multimedia using XML.

Of course, now that Adobe owns Flash, it has dropped all interest in advocating those open standards, because with its acquisition of Macromedia, Adobe also obtained what Brimelow might call "tyrannical control over developers" who create dynamic web content.

Canvas vs Flash

Meanwhile, the most significant threat to Adobe's Flash platform is HTML5's Canvas. Adobe is participating in HTML5 development, but is among those working to split Canvas from the HTML5 specification, a move that would greatly weaken the next version of the web's markup language from delivering the kinds of features that are often currently implemented in Flash.

Another company with less than enthusiastic interest in Canvas is Microsoft, which like Adobe has its own web plugin architecture designed to replace web standards with proprietary binary code that requires a separate runtime. Microsoft will be protecting the interests of Silverlight by releasing Internet Explorer 9 with support for many HTML5 features but lacking an implementation of Canvas.

Canvas was developed by Apple within WebKit to power features like Dashboard widgets. It enables dynamic, scripted rendering of 2D graphics inside of an element that can be embedded in HTML.

Canvas was then adopted by Mozilla and Opera, after which Apple then submitted the technology to WHATWG to become part of the HTML5 specification. While based on Apple-patented technologies, the company has agreed to provide royalty-free patent licensing for Canvas technologies when it becomes part of the official W3C recommendation.

So when Brimelow says his company is "not looking to kill anything or anyone," it can only be because he's either unaware of (or working carefully not to say anything about) HTML5 Canvas. Brimelow might also be selectively forgetting that Adobe, and Macromedia before it, also did nothing for years to deliver either an optimized, functional Flash plugin for the Mac platform or to deliver a mobile version of Flash that actually worked prior to the success of the iPhone.

Brimelow concluded his post by insisting that he "will not be giving Apple another cent of my money until there is a leadership change over there," then announcing that he was not actually trying to organize a boycott, then ending with "go screw yourself Apple," before noting "comments disabled as I’m not interested in hearing from the Cupertino Comment SPAM bots."

Somebody's been hitting the sauce :aok:

The report also stated Adobe's position that "more than 96 percent of U.S. Web surfers have Flash installed on their computers, according to researcher StatOwl," without noting that the iPhone now accounts for more than 60% of all smartphone traffic globally, while the iPod touch accounts for nearly all (93%) of web traffic among "mobile Internet devices." It's not hard to guess that iPad will similarly account for most "tablet" web traffic.

Having locked up the PC browser market, Adobe has a very strong position in controlling how interactive content is delivered. But having no showing at all in the mobile properties Apple has created is a serious problem, one Adobe needs more than angry rhetoric to fight against.

 

[LunarMist]

I'm guessing there is an iPad in the mix now, sans Flash.

 

[Sol]

The thing I find almost unbelievable about Adobe is their steadfast refusal to fix the most glaring flaws in their software. Flash, Acrobat/Reader and their update software are still shit for exactly the same, blindingly obvious reasons they've always been shit. I just wonder at what point in their development cycle they decide that all the things that really piss people off can wait until the next version, again.

Quicktime is just... Unforgivable... Even on OS X it's a steaming pile. The application is terrible, slow, crappy UI and it doesn't really do all that much. The back end framework is probably O.K, but supports about 2 codecs out of the box and has about another 4-6 if you can scrounge up plugins and figure out how to install them.

The link I can think of between Adobe, Apple and S*ny is that S*ny just released a firmware update for the PS3 to remove the Other OS install option, proving that they can be at least as dickish as Apple about platform control. Geohot, who was instrumental in correcting this problem with the iPhone, seems to have the PS3 situation similarly under control and a custom firmware that re-enables the feature is on the way. The end result is that I, and many other people are really pissed of at S*ony and at least one person managed to get a 20% refund from Amazon on the basis that they were sold a PS3 with a set of features and then one of those features was taken away... With a lot of luck this could end up being an expensive lesson for S*ny and maybe a warning to Apple that actually using the control they have over the iP/od/hone/ad might be a bad idea. I'm not holding my breath though...

 

[Pradeep]

The other os thing sucks, but it was a vector to eventual compromise of the ps3. I want devlopers to continue to produce beautiful ganes on the ps3, zero piracy helps in this regard.

 

[LiamC]

~~snip
Quicktime is just... Unforgivable...~~snip

I forget how sanitised my computing environment is, thanks to Merc and his posts in useful software.

K-Lite, Foxit, Quicktime Alternative & Real Alternative (only ever needed this once)