Who's using Mozilla?

[mubs]

And why? Why not Firefox / T-Bird (if you're using mail in Mozilla)?

I'd like to switch to a newer mail program and am wondering which of the above will make sense. Other than browsing and mail, I don't need anything else Mozilla has to offer.

It also appears that at this time, YahooPOPS does not support T-bird; no mention of it on their web page. This is a big bummer for me, or I'd just go with FF/TB.

TIA.

 

[Mercutio]

I would honestly LIKE to use Mozilla, since I like the mail/browser integration, but some of my favorite extensions only work with or work better with Firefox, and I keep hearing mixed messages about whether Moz development will continue.

 

[CityK]

It also appears that at this time, YahooPOPS does not support T-bird; no mention of it on their web page. This is a big bummer for me, or I'd just go with FF/TB.

TIA.

Oh yes it does! (Been using YahooPops with TB for a long time...since I first started using TB...which was v0.3 I believe).

 

[mubs]

Thanks, Merc. The point about future Moz dev is a critical one; thanks for raising it. I've become rather fond of FF myself.

 

[mubs]

CityK, thanks for the info!

I currently use YP sporadically, only for bulk download of accumulated mail in Yahoo (40-60) into my Netscape 4.x mail client. Do I use the same settings in TB? I.E. change the servers? For Moz, the instructions at YP said to create a new account first, and I don't want to do that.

 

[e_dawg]

I used Firefox when I had to test my code for compatibility with non-IE browsers. Seemed rather agreeable as an alternative to myIE2 and Opera. Even has the crucial Alt-D keyboard shortcut built-in

 

[CityK]

Yep. Setup your Yahoo account in TB. In the "Server setting" section for that account, use "local host" (or 127.0.0.1 .... which is the same as localhost) for server name, 110 for port (the standard POP port), and your Yahoo user name in "user name".

Don't worry about SMTP settings, as you can just send out your Yahoo related mail through your ISP account .... (much faster then sending outgoing mail through YahooPops to Yahoo to world).

Only downsides ->

1) I have yet to figure out how to get antivirus email scanning inbetwen the Yahoopops proxy and TB. Not a serious problem for me, but can see how this might be a very bad situation for others.

2) Manual launch of YahooPops required everytime you want to read from your Yahoo accounts. Or you can figure out an automated solution with AutoIt, but I haven't bothered yet....I probably would end up spending too much time figuring out how to script it.

 

[CityK]

1) I have yet to figure out how to get antivirus email scanning inbetwen the Yahoopops proxy and TB. Not a serious problem for me, but can see how this might be a very bad situation for others.

...At least with AVG (and its somewhat unconventional email scanner proxy pluggin) that is. Other AV might work straight out of the box. Don't know.

 

[mubs]

Thanks, CityK.

I was playing around with TB 0.7.3, and noticed that in setup, Return Recipts, you can't specify what kind. In Netscape, I can ask for:

a) a RR from the receiving server (which is what I use most of the time for important stuff)
b) a read receipt when the recepient displays the message
c) both types

In TB, there is a single check box for "Always request a RR". There is some talk about this in the support forums as well. Any ideas? Thanks!

 

[i]

And why? Why not Firefox / T-Bird (if you're using mail in Mozilla)?

I use Mozilla for a few reasons.

1) Habit. I've been using Mozilla since before they switched to a "normal" version numbering scheme (e.g. 0.6, 0.7, 0.8...). That was so long ago I can't remember how they named it back then.
2) It gives me better control of my browsing experience than Firefox does. I know Firefox is designed for small size and fast speed, but I'm not short on disk space, and I can't imagine needing anything faster than Mozilla for web browsing.
3) I switched to Mozilla Mail from Eudora back in 2001. I like it.
4) Occasionally I have to write automated utilities to grab things off various websites. The details about webpages that Mozilla can provide - along with the integrated HTML editor that allows me to disassemble webpages - are extremely valuable to me.
5) (This is kind of a subset of reason #4.) Sometimes some websites don't work too well if not viewed in IE. Mozilla's abilities at showing me what's going on with the content of the page allow me to find alternate routes to specific items on the website (e.g. bypassing some IE-specific garbage to go directly to a specific frame or image).
6) I tried Mozilla Calendar for a while back in 2001/2002. Despite being buggy (I think it was version 0.1 or something at the time) I could really see the potential. I'm planning on giving it another try soon. No doubt they've improved it greatly in the past 2 or 3 years.
7) Mozilla has an excellent profile manager. I have 3 different profiles, and I'm not sure if Firefox has any sort of equivalent.

I could probably give you other reasons why I prefer Mozilla, but those are the main points.

 

[mubs]

Hi, i, welcome back, and thanks for the detailed reply. Can you elaborate on 2) It gives me better control of my browsing experience than Firefox does, unless it was the other points you listed.

 

[i]

Hi mubs!

All I can tell you is that I made my decision in that particular category after looking at what functions were available under "Preferences" in Firefox versus what I was used to in Mozilla. Perhaps some of the functions have simply been shifted over to "about:config" in Firefox, but I didn't feel like investigating that workaround as I'm already so happy with Mozilla.

Then there's the Cookie Manager, Popup Manager, Download Manager, Image Manager, and awesome Bookmark Manager. Does Firefox have those? If so, do they offer the same features? I really don't know.

Don't get me wrong ... I have nothing against Firefox (In fact I suggest it to anyone who seems like they might be open to an IE substitute). I think people should use whatever piece of software they're happy with. Sure, offering suggestions for alternate software is fine if you sense someone might be doing better with another choice, but by and large, software is a preference thing. I'm not the type to tell people their choice is wrong.

Oh, and...

1) Habit. I've been using Mozilla since before they switched to a "normal" version numbering scheme (e.g. 0.6, 0.7, 0.8...). That was so long ago I can't remember how they named it back then.

...they still have their old timeline posted!

I started using Mozilla back at Milestone 6 (i.e. early 1999). I can't believe how much it has changed. For starters, it's so stable now!

I've watched it grow and fulfill the potential that many of us beleaguered Netscape users back then really, really hoped it would have. Mozilla is almost like a familiar piece of clothing to me now. Forgive the potential cheese, but it's become a crucial piece of my software landscape. I'd go so far as to say it's part of my home ... just like my favorite comfy sofa. 8)

 

[CityK]

Thanks, CityK.

I was playing around with TB 0.7.3, and noticed that in setup, Return Recipts, you can't specify what kind. In Netscape, I can ask for:

a) a RR from the receiving server (which is what I use most of the time for important stuff)
b) a read receipt when the recepient displays the message
c) both types

In TB, there is a single check box for "Always request a RR". There is some talk about this in the support forums as well. Any ideas? Thanks!

I skimmed through a bunch of the "Return AND Receipts" threads on Mozillazine last night. From what I saw, it would probably work if you edited a "disposition" line in one of TB's config files (maybe user.js ?). There were a number of references to some email standards type documents, and the referenced section in this one seems to contain the necessary syntax (or at least looks promising).

A simple test of TB's current return receipts situation would seem to imply that it works on the basis of when the receiver views your message onscreen:

"This receipt verifies that the message has been displayed on the recipient's computer at 8/28/2004 7:55 AM"

 

[mubs]

Thanks, CityK, I'll check it out. My own browsing of the forums and of the setup features indicates that the only type of RR supported by TB is when the recepient displays it. I'd really piss my recepients if I used it - it pisses me off when somebody sends me a message like that. But I do want to know that they got it, which is where the RR from the receiving server comes in handy (no relation of the webmaster of this forum). This appears to be a downgrade from Netscrape, which supports both types.

 

[sechs]

I still use Mozilla (over Firefox) mostly due to entrenchment. I used Netscape when it had the pulsing N. I switched over to Mozilla when they were still naming builds by milestone number.

I have Firefox installed on my machine at home. I installed it at work to use instead of IE. It's just not ready to take all of the navigator baggage that I've gathered for the last decade.

 

[Tannin]

Me.

Reason? Habit. Plus it ain't broke.

I've downloaded Firefox once or twice, installd it, thought "this seems fine", then forgotten to use it. As a general rule, I use IE when I'm being Tea (save fussing with multipe logins, easy to remember which sock I'm wearing at the moment), Opera 6.05 when I'm being Tannin, and Mozilla for everything else.

Any particular reason I should switch to Firefox? Does it do anything better than Mozilla does?

PS: I never use Mozilla Mail. It's awful.

 

[miksmi]

Does it [Firefox] do anything better than Mozilla does?

On a slow laptop (PII 850MHz 256MB RAM) Firefox loads faster than Opera. I seem to hit sites that don't like Opera (even when identifying as MSIE or Mozilla) but are ok w/Firefox. I had a lot of inertia w/Opera but I got tired of remembering which sites required firing up IE or Netscape so I just switched to Firefox. I miss mouse gestures but there's probably/will be a plugin for it. I really miss the Z and X keyboard shortcuts for forward/back paging.

I switched exclusively to Firefox when I repaved my laptop.

 

[CityK]

I miss mouse gestures but there's probably/will be a plugin for it.

Take your pick

 

[Santilli]

I use it on my mac for some reason. Don't ask why...
:eekers: :?:

 

[miksmi]

Schweet, CityK. Thanks.

 

[Buck]

I use Mozilla on one system with Mozilla mail. On another system, I'm using FireFox. I have a few versions of each installed plus different versions of Opera. I don't seem to stick with just one.

 

[Handruin]

So Tannin, are your sock puppet's persona a reflection of user experience with the given browser they use? :wink:

 

[mubs]

Thanks, everybody.

PS: I never use Mozilla Mail. It's awful.

That was the real reason for asking . Now I've got Netscrape 4.78 solely for email, but with the inseparable baggage installed; IE, of course, parked in the background; and Firefox as my browser. What I've seen of TB, I don't like much; maybe in another few revs. I keep hearing about Moz's bloat. Looks like I should just let status quo be.

 

[Mercutio]

I like Mozilla Mail. I like Thunderbird.

Of course I like and mostly use a text-based client called elm best of all, but in comparison to Outlook, Outlook Express or Lotus notes, MozMail and Tbird are vastly superior.

 

[Handruin]

I tried to convert to TB this past weekend and I wasn't successful. I have numerous e-mail accounts that I check (11) and TB doesn't handle it very well. I might be missing something, but when I click the get mail button, I have to select each account individually and press the button which is annoying. I can set TB to check all accounts when it opens, but it doesn't seem to throttle this very well and the whole application gets chuggy. All mail accounts are not accessible for a couple of minutes except for the one POP3 account.

Also, I think there is some bug that keeps screwing up my account name. After I finally got all 11 accounts to work, my 10 IMAP accounts starting giving me trouble because it thinks my user name is "user@domain.com@mail.domain.com". After I correct the issue, it keeps returning. I'm trying to move away from outlook 2003, but so far it works better than TB.

 

[i]

I might be missing something, but when I click the get mail button, I have to select each account individually and press the button which is annoying.

I've never used ThunderBird, but in case it's similar to Mozilla Mail, there are 3 ways to check all your accounts for new mail...

1) There should be a small, downward-pointing triangle right next to the "Get Msgs" button. Under MozMail, clicking it produces a drop down list with "Get All New Messages" as the first entry. Choosing that option will check for mail on all available accounts.

2) Under the file menu, there is an option titled "Get New Messages For" which expands to also include the "Get All New Messages" option.

3) Pressing CTRL+SHIFT+T is a keyboard short to "Get All New Messages"

I would hope at least one of those options works in ThunderBird!

Also, I think there is some bug that keeps screwing up my account name. After I finally got all 11 accounts to work, my 10 IMAP accounts starting giving me trouble because it thinks my user name is "user@domain.com@mail.domain.com". After I correct the issue, it keeps returning. I'm trying to move away from outlook 2003, but so far it works better than TB.

There has to be an easy fix for that one ... I just don't toy with Mozilla Mail's innards often enough (I configured it, it worked, now I leave it alone and play the role of dumb user).

 

[Handruin]

Tried all three of your suggestions and none of them would check all my messages. For item number 1, there is no arrow (I know exactly what you speak of, but it doesn't exist in TB...at least not in mine). For suggestion number 2, there is no option in any of the menu items. And last, for suggestion number 3, CTRL + SHIFT + T works, but only for the first mail box...

I'll look around for more information on my last issue. If I could get this to check all my accounts, I'd switch over. Outlook 2003 works well, but it caches my IMAP mail, so it works much like POP3 which pisses me off.
:-?

 

[Mickey]

I think there's an Extension you can download for Tbird to let you check your mail in one step. I remember using it before I upgraded to the latest Tbird release (and was too lazy to reinstall it).

 

[Handruin]

I just tried "Easy Get Mail Button 0.2" extension, but it doesn't do anything that I can tell.

 

[CityK]

Sounds like a IMAP related issue Doug.

 

[GMac]

Another subscriber to the 'if it 'aint broken' school of thought here. Moz does everything I need it to do, so until I know for sure that development on it is ceasing, I'll stick with it.

GM

 

[blakerwry]

doug, goto the account settings for each account, under "server settings" put a check next to "check for new message on startup" and then set each acocunt to something like 5 minutes... 3 minutes for important accounts.

I'm using Moz mail at home and TB at work. when I click on "get mail" (nothing fancy) It seems to check the 3 IMAP accounts I use at work and the 6 IMAP accounts I use at home.

 

[Handruin]

A few posts up I mentioned that I tried setting the option to "check for new message on startup" but experienced performance issues. However I left the mail to default to checking every 10 minutes. I don't see any other timing options, so I'm assuming that's what you are referring to?

In your case the IMAP is split between two servers. All of my IMAP accounts connect to the same server, so I wonder if that's part of the problem?

 

[blakerwry]

At work, all of my accounts are on the same server.. I get about 1000 messages a week in 1 and there are probably a few hundered a week in another, the last one probably gets no more than 100 or so a week in the sent box.

At home the load includes the same 3 accounts, plus several personal accounts. 2 of which are on the same server.

No performance issues with me.

I am using resonably fast machines with plenty of RAM for my workloads.

Home:
AthlonXP 2.0GHz (400MHz bus)
768MB PC3200
winXP

Work
p4 2.8GHz
512MB PC2700 in dual channel
winXP

 

[time]

Doug, have you tried Thunderbird 0.8? It adds the dropdown arrow on the GetMail button.

 

[Handruin]

Shoot, I thought I had 0.8. It's such a PITA to reconfigure my e-mail everytime. I'll give it a try and get back to ya. Thanks for pointing out there is a newer version. (I had 0.7)

 

[Howell]

I just tried "Easy Get Mail Button 0.2" extension, but it doesn't do anything that I can tell.

If you have the root folder of an account selected in the folder pane, it gets the new messages for that account. If any other folder is selected (including a subfolder of an account), it gets new messages for all accounts.

:?:

I have all my mail account set to check every five minutes and that's often enough that I don't have to do it manually.

Also, I think there is some bug that keeps screwing up my account name. After I finally got all 11 accounts to work, my 10 IMAP accounts starting giving me trouble because it thinks my user name is "user@domain.com@mail.domain.com". After I correct the issue, it keeps returning. I'm trying to move away from outlook 2003, but so far it works better than TB.

At least in .7 there is a bug in the account setup wizard. You should fill in the "User Name" field just like you would in POP or webmail. For instance, my main account requires the field to read "user-name" while all additional accounts on the same server read "user-name@domain". This is a requiment of the mail server and is required evenunder webmail. Then go to the account name and correct the cosmetic problem.

 

[iGary]

The other shoe drops at Microsoft! Netscrape, Mozilla, Mosaic, Apple, Lynx, Opera, and probably Oprah are now trembling in fear... :lol:


Andreessen: Microsoft to make IE more competitive
Success of alternative browsers will motivate Microsoft to use IE to strengthen its other products


http://www.infoworld.com/article/04/10/07/HNiecompetitive_1.html

 

[CougTek]

Andreessen: Microsoft to make IE more competitive
Success of alternative browsers will motivate Microsoft to use IE to strengthen its other products

The only way MSFT could make IE competitve against Firefox would be by re-writing it entirely IMO.

 

[sechs]

It's still just Mosaic with a load of crap hung off of it.