Windows 11

[sedrosken]

I wouldn't be surprised if Apple started this whole mess, given Microsoft's propensity for copying them, but it doesn't seem like their style, no.

"Linux" is a loaded term. There are many desktop environments and window/session managers for it, and even more distributions of it. Generally I will say they do not, but that one malicious permutation of it might exist and do so wouldn't surprise me at all given how easily malleable Linux in general is to a purpose. The generally available distributions don't and you'd be laughed out of the room for suggesting it, thankfully.

I'll disagree with you in your thinking that telemetry is significantly different from taking these screenshots -- when said telemetry can consist of usage patterns for a particular piece of software, and in the event of a crash (not uncommon when working with Adobe products, from experience) the report can include relevant bits of the memory map, I'd argue telemetry may just be more invasive.

 

[LunarMist]

I think I know what must be done.

 

[jtr1962]

I think I know what must be done.

Get laws passed which end this type of invasive spyware. It might be semi-OK only if the software was free. Then gathering user information could be thought of a payment of sorts. However, anything MS or Apple make is far from free. If you're paying for software, you should have a minimal expectation that you're not going to be spied on against your will.

I thought Recall was dead after the fiasco a few months ago? Now it's back??? These people never give up.

 

[Mercutio]

Telemetry is not the same as taking screenshots within applications that don't naturally offer that functionality.
Having to hack the OS regularly to keep up with it is no longer worth it for personal use. Are APPLE and Linux doing the same thing?

It's not a hack? You are configuring the operating system to your liking. There may very well be people who want and like Recall or like the new context menu and center start menu, but you can change all those things if you don't like them.

re: Linux, one of the biggest issues is that Linux has lots of little messes in weird places. One of the big ones for me is that Resolve Studio works beautifully on Linux, but the Linux audio stack available to Resolve doesn't support some common audio formats as they come out of my camera. If I want to deal with audio, I have to split the audio and transcode it separately and then import and sync it back. It's not like I can't do that, it's that I don't wanna.

Most desktop Linux distros are pretty straightforward once you get used to its way of doing things, but for a lot of people, the occasional "Hey I have to edit this one plain text file to change how my computer works" is a step too far for people who don't like to mess with OS functions in the first place.

Something I found out this morning is that Windows 11 24H2 is specifically incompatible with WD m.2 SSDs. It bluescreens constantly because Windows wants to allocate a different amount of cache than the drives support. Some of my classroom computers are impacted by this.

 

[LunarMist]

Fortunately you are in the IT area. I don't have the skills or energy to be chasing the changes every month or week. Once Win 10 created the laws about uncontrolled changes, I knew it was the beginning of the end.

It's MS don't do any actual beta testing of the OS updates.
WD is too huge of a player for MS not to fix whatever defect there is. HMB always seemed like cheapskate crud to me and I avoided it but the 2230 are impossible.

 

[Mercutio]

I do think that almost all cases, there are plenty people willing to help if you need something. 99% of the tuning that Windows needs is day 1 setup nonsense and that's true of pretty much every Windows version. For that matter, I have to do a day of tuning for a personal-use Linux or MacOS install as well.

 

[jtr1962]

Fortunately you are in the IT area. I don't have the skills or energy to be chasing the changes every month or week. Once Win 10 created the laws about uncontrolled changes, I knew it was the beginning of the end.

Same here. At one time I was more of a PC hobbyist who enjoyed tweaking the OS. These days I just want it to work. It's one of the reasons my desktop is still running 7.

 

[LunarMist]

I do think that almost all cases, there are plenty people willing to help if you need something. 99% of the tuning that Windows needs is day 1 setup nonsense and that's true of pretty much every Windows version. For that matter, I have to do a day of tuning for a personal-use Linux or MacOS install as well.

Of course, but you guys do this stuff like a biofunction. I don't mind a weekend setting up a new build but when it changes constantly against my will it is too much stress. Does the Linux OS update itself whenever the Linuxes feel like it? My work laptop updates occasionally, but mostly that stupid Intel ME. How do the businesses cope with the MS on the standard (not high-security) systems?

 

[LunarMist]

Same here. At one time I was more of a PC hobbyist who enjoyed tweaking the OS. These days I just want it to work. It's one of the reasons my desktop is still running 7.

I need modern image processing, so archaic hardware is not going to cut it. I don't generate as much content as the Merc, but 50-200K ARW/CR3/NEF files per year is a new normal in the 20s. I work with multi GB stitched, layered images regularly (psb format). I was working with an 800 megapixel image recently and thinking that it could be faster, but a decade ago that was a painful size.

 

[Mercutio]

Does the Linux OS update itself whenever the Linuxes feel like it?

Every distribution handles things a bit differently, but it's forced reboots don't happen very often. Things like web browsers that rely on updates let you know when they need to restart though. Basically you only HAVE to restart when your kernel gets upgraded.

But there isn't much in the way of professional grade content creation software. It's a weakness of the platform. Darktable, Lightzone, DigiKam and Krita are your tools for stills and most of those also have a Windows version if you'd like to try. There's no Adobe but there's no Capture One or DxO or Affinity Photo either. CS6 works fine on Wine though!

 

[Chewy509]

Telemetry is not the same as taking screenshots within applications that don't naturally offer that functionality.
Having to hack the OS regularly to keep up with it is no longer worth it for personal use. Are APPLE and Linux doing the same thing?

Not that I'm aware of.
Some telemetry is present on both macOS and GNU/Linux systems, but these are typically opt-in and generally limited to things like crash reports or package installation (eg popcorn on Debian, or your use of the AppStore on macOS and so on).
If anyone has concrete information of Apple or any Linux distro doing more, I'm very interested in seeing this.

 

[Mercutio]

Something I found out this morning is that Windows 11 24H2 is specifically incompatible with WD m.2 SSDs. It bluescreens constantly because Windows wants to allocate a different amount of cache than the drives support. Some of my classroom computers are impacted by this.

There is a fix available now, although it'll be almost a week before I can check it myself.

 

[LunarMist]

Why only the 2TB models? It's not clear if that also happens to the SSDs used in enclosures.

 

[Mercutio]

As I understand it, the bluescreens only happen on PCs with WD SN* drives as boot drives. Hopefully, they'll get around to rolling out the fix for 1TB SN580s soon, since those are the ones I actually have in my NUCs.

 

[LunarMist]

Would I be screwed with the WD SN850X 8TB when W11 is enforced? I'm not seeing any advantage to small drives at this point. The current boot drive is encroaching on the 5 year mark.

I actually have that same 1TB SN580 in the AsBOX 4x4 8840U. However, it is designated as the 2nd SSD after the 1TB Corvair 2242. MS seems obnoxiously to change the OS without informing the WD. That's bizarre unless WD is not in compliance with the NVMe HMB standards.

 

[Mercutio]

The list I saw for impacted models was the SN5000, 580 and 770. I'm assuming the 850 is in the clear, other than the questionable idea of using a WD drive for booting in the first place.

 

[jtr1962]

I'm not seeing any advantage to small drives at this point. The current boot drive is encroaching on the 5 year mark.

Only advantage is $/TB. The sweet spot in terms of $/TB seems to be around 2 to 4 TB. Above or below that it's higher. As SSD density increases, of course the capacity range for the sweet spot goes up. It'll probably be 4 to 8 TB in a year or two.

For you a 5 year old boot drive is positively ancient.

 

[LunarMist]

$/TB is a weird measurement for a single drvie. What value do you place on 0TB, i.e., the M.2 socket? I would probably say each socket is about $1000-2000, maybe less if your computer supports 8 M.2 slots. Mine are only 2-4 sockets. The 8TB WD_Black are a pretty good deal since most others are more expensive and based on the Phison E18 which requires more power/generates a lot of heat. It would be nice if Samsung got off their ass for 8TB, but the gamers all want speed not capacity.

I love the old 970 Pro. It was the last of the MLC drives and will write all day at the same speed since there is no pseudo-SLC caching as with TLC/QLC NAND flash. I just need better occupancy of a slot. With one 8TB and three 4TB, at least I can be at 20TB for NVMe.

 

[jtr1962]

I'm not really sure what your point is. I'm just talking about price per TB, not whether or not there might be other reasons to go with larger drives, such as needing x amount of storage in y number of slots. If you have, say, 4 slots and only need 16 TB, then it's more cost effective to use 4x 4TB instead of 2x 8TB, all other things being equal.

I'd personally like to see more SSDs designed purely for bulk storage, not speed. Even if access times are 10 times worse, they'll still beat the pants off spinning disks. Get the price to about $20/TB or less, you're in the same ballpark as spinning disks.

 

[LunarMist]

The cost per TB of WD 2TB HMB drives is quite high if you figure in the cost to fix them , maybe +$100 for tech support?

I'd like to see more low-lane-count SSDs like the Samsung that can use 2 lanes of PCIe 5 instead of 4 lanes of PCIe 4. Maybe one lane of PCIe 5 would be fast enough for cheaper drives to allow for more total capacity and flexibility in a box. I'm still more interested in enterprise drives, but they are like well over $100 per dB for larger sizes. Four 30.72GB in RAID 5 would be good for starters. Unlike Franklin, I don't have the guts to RAID 0 that much.

 

[Mercutio]

It seems to me that motherboard OEMs aren't particularly motivated to break out PCIe lanes. My x670e has some of that, in only having one PCIe 5 m.2, but I don't see why we couldn't get MUCH more flexible x4 PCI 3 slots instead of borderline useless x1 PCIe 5 lanes. I suppose that's another form of bifurcation, but it would make building a workstation much, much easier. I can't be the only person who thinks that, right?

 

[Handruin]

I've felt like it's done to be aligned more with marketing info to say their products have a PCIe 5.0 vs being more flexible and useful with more lanes even at slower speeds.

 

[LunarMist]

But how much is controlled by the As'es vs. the AMD itself? I assumed it's mostly the chipset limitations.
I just want a 40-lane chipset like iNtel had some years ago so we don't have all those bottlenecks.
The slow-threaded, overpriced, flamethrowing, Threadrippers is not the solution.

 

[Mercutio]

I think Intel didn't see a benefit to having a high end desktop platform and so it's dead. Gamers don't need I/O and anyone whose needs are more serious can probably be bullied into contemporary Xeon or Threadripper, LM's complaints about core frequencies aside. I can live with 48 PCIe lanes, barely, although I'd rather they came in configurations other than a bunch of x16, x1 and m.2 slots, which is all desktops seem to offer.

One of the driving factors for HEDT systems was greater RAM capacities, but that's been a non-factor on DDR5 up to now because of issues with RAM timings. Is it worth a 50% more expensive motherboard and 33% more expensive CPU just to get an extra DDR5 channel and an extra x16 slot? For how many people?

 

[LunarMist]

Soon half of the lanes will be appropriated by Thunderbowls.

 

[Mercutio]

Microsoft will support your personal Windows 10 installation for an extra year for $30.

 

[LunarMist]

MS never supported me. Ever. In my whole life.

The problem is that the Abode, DXO, Captured one, etc. will not be programmed for 10.

 

[Mercutio]

Do you think they'll immediately abandon 75% of Windows users?

 

[LunarMist]

No, since the number will be much lower in Oct '25 and those are probably not using current software.
You know that many normals just allow the OS to update naturally without human intervention. And if it doesn't they will just wait until they cannot install new software or something doesn't work. Then they go to Merc and ask for help.