4k TVs and Monitors

ddrueding

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Comcast Coax-based, fast-ish.

Currently running 170Mbps with 2 Youtube and one Netflix stream running and a couple torrents.
 

Stereodude

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That video gave me 121Mbps on Firefox. I'm seeing the same codec as you.
No idea how you're measuring, but it's definitely wrong.

These are all the streams available for that video:
Code:
249          webm       audio only DASH audio   59k , opus @ 50k, 1.91MiB
250          webm       audio only DASH audio   90k , opus @ 70k, 2.64MiB
140          m4a        audio only DASH audio  129k , m4a_dash container, aac  @128k (44100Hz), 4.72MiB
251          webm       audio only DASH audio  165k , opus @160k, 5.15MiB
171          webm       audio only DASH audio  171k , vorbis@128k (44100Hz), 5.01MiB
141          m4a        audio only DASH audio  256k , m4a_dash container, aac  @256k (44100Hz), 9.38MiB
160          mp4        256x144    DASH video  111k , avc1.4d400c, 15fps, video only, 4.01MiB
278          webm       256x144    DASH video  162k , webm container, vp9, 15fps, video only, 3.91MiB
133          mp4        426x240    DASH video  249k , avc1.4d4015, 30fps, video only, 8.98MiB
242          webm       426x240    DASH video  298k , vp9, 30fps, video only, 7.34MiB
243          webm       640x360    DASH video  542k , vp9, 30fps, video only, 13.37MiB
134          mp4        640x360    DASH video  607k , avc1.4d401e, 30fps, video only, 14.67MiB
244          webm       854x480    DASH video  952k , vp9, 30fps, video only, 23.84MiB
135          mp4        854x480    DASH video 1111k , avc1.4d401f, 30fps, videoonly, 28.93MiB
247          webm       1280x720   DASH video 1672k , vp9, 30fps, video only, 46.73MiB
136          mp4        1280x720   DASH video 2220k , avc1.4d401f, 30fps, video only, 55.82MiB
248          webm       1920x1080  DASH video 2867k , vp9, 30fps, video only, 80.62MiB
137          mp4        1920x1080  DASH video 4173k , avc1.640028, 30fps, video only, 103.13MiB
264          mp4        2560x1440  DASH video 11391k , avc1.640032, 30fps, video only, 277.64MiB
271          webm       2560x1440  DASH video 15703k , vp9, 30fps, video only, 264.65MiB
266          mp4        3840x2160  DASH video 22317k , h264, 30fps, video only, 662.23MiB
138          mp4        3840x2160  DASH video 24322k , avc1.640033, 30fps, video only, 573.82MiB
313          webm       3840x2160  DASH video 29426k , vp9, 30fps, video only, 586.74MiB
17           3gp        176x144    small ,  mp4a.40.2, mp4v.20.3
36           3gp        320x240    small ,  mp4a.40.2, mp4v.20.3
5            flv        400x240    small
43           webm       640x360    medium ,  vorbis, vp8.0
18           mp4        640x360    medium ,  mp4a.40.2, avc1.42001E
22           mp4        1280x720   hd720 ,  mp4a.40.2, avc1.64001F (best)
The largest VP9 video stream is #313 and it's 586.74MiB. The video is 308 seconds. Do the math and that's 15.24Mbps average which is nearly exactly 1/8th the 121Mbps you reported.
 

Mercutio

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I'm actually going to swap my 70" Samsung TV and a sound bar (and some labor time in hooking everything up) for a still-in-the-box 60" LG 4k set sometime this week. The 70" TV is too big for the space I have in the first place, but with any luck I'll have some things to say about it tomorrow or Monday evening.
 

ddrueding

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No idea how you're measuring, but it's definitely wrong.

These are all the streams available for that video:
Code:
249          webm       audio only DASH audio   59k , opus @ 50k, 1.91MiB
250          webm       audio only DASH audio   90k , opus @ 70k, 2.64MiB
140          m4a        audio only DASH audio  129k , m4a_dash container, aac  @128k (44100Hz), 4.72MiB
251          webm       audio only DASH audio  165k , opus @160k, 5.15MiB
171          webm       audio only DASH audio  171k , vorbis@128k (44100Hz), 5.01MiB
141          m4a        audio only DASH audio  256k , m4a_dash container, aac  @256k (44100Hz), 9.38MiB
160          mp4        256x144    DASH video  111k , avc1.4d400c, 15fps, video only, 4.01MiB
278          webm       256x144    DASH video  162k , webm container, vp9, 15fps, video only, 3.91MiB
133          mp4        426x240    DASH video  249k , avc1.4d4015, 30fps, video only, 8.98MiB
242          webm       426x240    DASH video  298k , vp9, 30fps, video only, 7.34MiB
243          webm       640x360    DASH video  542k , vp9, 30fps, video only, 13.37MiB
134          mp4        640x360    DASH video  607k , avc1.4d401e, 30fps, video only, 14.67MiB
244          webm       854x480    DASH video  952k , vp9, 30fps, video only, 23.84MiB
135          mp4        854x480    DASH video 1111k , avc1.4d401f, 30fps, videoonly, 28.93MiB
247          webm       1280x720   DASH video 1672k , vp9, 30fps, video only, 46.73MiB
136          mp4        1280x720   DASH video 2220k , avc1.4d401f, 30fps, video only, 55.82MiB
248          webm       1920x1080  DASH video 2867k , vp9, 30fps, video only, 80.62MiB
137          mp4        1920x1080  DASH video 4173k , avc1.640028, 30fps, video only, 103.13MiB
264          mp4        2560x1440  DASH video 11391k , avc1.640032, 30fps, video only, 277.64MiB
271          webm       2560x1440  DASH video 15703k , vp9, 30fps, video only, 264.65MiB
266          mp4        3840x2160  DASH video 22317k , h264, 30fps, video only, 662.23MiB
138          mp4        3840x2160  DASH video 24322k , avc1.640033, 30fps, video only, 573.82MiB
313          webm       3840x2160  DASH video 29426k , vp9, 30fps, video only, 586.74MiB
17           3gp        176x144    small ,  mp4a.40.2, mp4v.20.3
36           3gp        320x240    small ,  mp4a.40.2, mp4v.20.3
5            flv        400x240    small
43           webm       640x360    medium ,  vorbis, vp8.0
18           mp4        640x360    medium ,  mp4a.40.2, avc1.42001E
22           mp4        1280x720   hd720 ,  mp4a.40.2, avc1.64001F (best)
The largest VP9 video stream is #313 and it's 586.74MiB. The video is 308 seconds. Do the math and that's 15.24Mbps average which is nearly exactly 1/8th the 121Mbps you reported.
As discussed earlier, just looking at the "stats for nerds" box...

Untitled-2.png

As mentioned, no idea whether that is the video bitrate or something else.
 

Mercutio

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I look forward to your forthcoming rant.
The worst thing was walking that giant Samsung TV down three flights of stairs by myself.

Right now, what I can say is that nothing plugged in through my Marantz receiver will negotiate a 4k video connection. My FireTVv2 (native HDMI), my NUC (mini-DP to HDMI) and an in-progress GTX970-based gaming machine (DP to HDMI) build all work fine direct to the TV. Hopefully that's just a firmware/cabling issue with the receiver. Also my current NUC hates pushing 4k video, so I'm probably going to wind up swapping it for something else, either a newer one or some kind of ITX rig I guess.

I'm not a huge fan of the TV's smart features. The UIs are terrible. The LG remote is an air mouse and it megasucks. Netflix and Youtube can deliver "4k" video, but I'd be hard pressed to tell it apart from 1080p. I actually put Daredevil 1080p (local copy I ripped myself) and 4k (Netflix) side-by-side and was swapping between them. I really couldn't say one looked better than the other. I do like the native screencasting, which worked with both my phone and my Surface Pro. That's handy. The LG/WebOS platform also lacks an official Plex client. There's someone's port of it, but it's absolutely the only application in LG's app store that costs money so screw that. In general it's a good thing I'm not planning to use any of the other smart TV stuff.

Also I hate the stands the TV came with. I'll be replacing those on Wednesday. My landlord is not OK with wall mounting).

I still need to do some screen calibrations on it. I did turn off the "Eco Mode" BS and that's about as far as I've taken that. I don't have any light leaking from the screen edges, something my Samsung TV was doing, but both panels have nice, vibrant color and I can't say that one is really better than the other. If I were just comparing a couple 1080p TVs I'd say the LG is a bit nicer, but I still need to play with it more than I have.
 

Mercutio

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I'm mostly annoyed that I have the last Marantz Receiver that has to get firmware updates from a service center rather than over the internet. It's supposed to be capable of handling 4k but not unless I pay $100 and ship it out for two weeks.
 

ddrueding

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In order to bring happiness to the heart of all those who've already purchased a 4K TV, I provide a link to this announcement.
It seems like if you didn't cheap out too badly you're already there. I was worried that there would be a new connector, or protocol, or something. Just raising the bar on image quality is a Good Thing.
 

Mercutio

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It seems like if you didn't cheap out too badly you're already there. I was worried that there would be a new connector, or protocol, or something. Just raising the bar on image quality is a Good Thing.
There's a world of difference between a $1000 TV and a $4000 one, and that's what the difference between a normal 4k TV and an OLED model is right now.
 

snowhiker

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Philips BDM4350UC 43 inch 4K IPS PWM-free monitor

This might be the one. Philips BDM4350UC. 43 inch, 4K, IPS monitor.

Hopefully available in the U.S.A. soon.

- 43" IPS panel. (42.51” viewable). (likely LG AH-IPS).
- 3840x2160.
- 10-bit colors (8-bit plus dithering).
- PWM-free.
- 1200:1 contrast ratio. ----->One can hope.
- 2x DisplayPorts 1.2.
- 2x HDMI 2.0 (w/MHL support).
- 4x USB 3.0 ports (one supporting Fast Charging).
- VGA port. -----> Really?!?

Short blurbs here and here.

I'll be monitoring the Hard|OCP thread on this new monitor here.
 

CougTek

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According to the datasheet, it weights only 9.4Kg without the stand but it is a VESA 200mm compatible. VESA 200x200 articulated arms are sgnificantly more expensive than those made for VESA 100x100 monitors. I'm aware of the adapter plates, but I've never tried those and I'm not sure how well they work.

I hope the price won't be too high.

Thanks for bringing this up.
 

snowhiker

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Totally interested. May/June seems to be the availability people are tossing around?
Yeah saw that. Pricing around $900 according to some blogs. I'm actually a bit worried the price is too low. If I go big, I want it to be a quality product. I wish the Dell 4k and 5k monitors were 43". And not 32" and 27" respectively. I'm willing to pay Dell prices for the right product.
 

LunarMist

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Yeah saw that. Pricing around $900 according to some blogs. I'm actually a bit worried the price is too low. If I go big, I want it to be a quality product. I wish the Dell 4k and 5k monitors were 43". And not 32" and 27" respectively. I'm willing to pay Dell prices for the right product.
It seems to be sRGB only. There is also no mention of the LUT or calibration.
 

ddrueding

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This first-gen Dell 32" 4k in front of me now positively sucks. Running it in DP1.2 (60hz) causes constant loss of sync and corrupted video. I'm looking forward to replacing it with something a bit bigger that can handle 4k@60 reliably.
 

LunarMist

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About the calibration, the PF I linked specifies a DeltaE of less than 3.
DeltaE is a measure of uniformity, not accuracy to a given colorspace across the luminance range.
The maximum gamut is typically dependent on the optoelectronic properties of the display. sRGB is rather small.
There is a LUT to map the input to the output (gamma curve). In a cheap display the LUT is fixed and not user accessible.
Software based correction has to be used which does not have as many bits to create a smooth curve, especially with a full range of color spaces.
A good display has a 14- or 16-bit LUT that can be accessed with the calibrator software or by optical calibrators connected directly to the display.
A few of the better displays have a built-on calibrator that pops into position for calibration.
 

ddrueding

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Wow am I glad you used your good keyboard for that post; I wouldn't have understood half of it if it were below your average for clarity.

Thanks for the information! Do you know of any large 4k@60hz capable displays that offer any of these features? This is what I get for gaming and working on the same machine...
 

Stereodude

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DeltaE is a measure of uniformity, not accuracy to a given colorspace across the luminance range.
The maximum gamut is typically dependent on the optoelectronic properties of the display. sRGB is rather small.
There is a LUT to map the input to the output (gamma curve). In a cheap display the LUT is fixed and not user accessible.
Software based correction has to be used which does not have as many bits to create a smooth curve, especially with a full range of color spaces.
A good display has a 14- or 16-bit LUT that can be accessed with the calibrator software or by optical calibrators connected directly to the display.
A few of the better displays have a built-on calibrator that pops into position for calibration.
DeltaE is a measure of perceptual color accuracy. It has nothing to do with color space or uniformity. sRGB is a fine color space for most computer use because that's what all software assumes you're using. A WGG monitor is a big pain to use unless it has multiple HW color space presets.

You can't get the features you're mentioning in a sub $1k 24" HD monitor. I'm not sure why you think you'd get them in a $1k 43" UHD monitor. :scratch:
 

Santilli

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Perhaps because it's like watching the stock market in 2000:

I watch this stuff at Costco. It's amazing how the prices drop...
 

DrunkenBastard

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Yeah saw that. Pricing around $900 according to some blogs. I'm actually a bit worried the price is too low. If I go big, I want it to be a quality product. I wish the Dell 4k and 5k monitors were 43". And not 32" and 27" respectively. I'm willing to pay Dell prices for the right product.
Think of it as a 43" 4k hdtv that happens to have some display port inputs. That way you won't be disappointed. At least if it's any relation to their older 40" model, which was a real pile of crap.
 
Last edited:

snowhiker

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Oh baby.

Dell 43" 4k display.

OK. Time to start seriously thinking about a new monitor. I wonder if the $500 price delta over the Phillips will be justified.

Edit: This will probably be my new monitor. Probably wait a day or two to cool down from the excitement. Finally a 40'ish inch 4k monitor that's not a TV.
 
Last edited:

Handruin

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That's a nice sized monitor for the money with an 10bit IPS panel supporting 60Hz at 4K. This should fill that gap that many have complained about in terms of size for 4K viewing without scaling. I'll be interested in reviews of it once they turn up or from your experience when you get one. I'm very happy it also has a VESA mount on it. I know that shouldn't be something to be excited for but I've seen good panels not offer it and that's annoying.
 

Stereodude

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I must be the only person who isn't infatuated with IPS. No, that doesn't mean I want a TN panel. Those suck. In general, I'd rather have a good VA type panel. 5000:1 contrast ratio is hard to argue against.

Yes, I understand the pros and cons of each. Unless you're sitting absurdly close to the monitor making it very wide in your FoV the gamma and gamut shift of a VA panel are not significant, and 3-4x the contrast ratio is. In monitor land, most people after a high optical performance display seem to want an IPS type panel, but in TV land most people after a high performance display want a VA type panel (if we're limiting the choices to just LCDs). I don't really get the dichotomy.
 

jtr1962

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I'm personally holding out for 4K OLED. Any technology which inherently emits light has to be better than any type of backlit LCD. A 4K OLED monitor in about 24" size would be perfect for my needs.
 

ddrueding

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Oh baby.

Dell 43" 4k display.

OK. Time to start seriously thinking about a new monitor. I wonder if the $500 price delta over the Phillips will be justified.

Edit: This will probably be my new monitor. Probably wait a day or two to cool down from the excitement. Finally a 40'ish inch 4k monitor that's not a TV.
Scheduled delivery 5/9/2016 if you want to wait for me to give a review.
 

time

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I must be the only person who isn't infatuated with IPS. No, that doesn't mean I want a TN panel. Those suck. In general, I'd rather have a good VA type panel. 5000:1 contrast ratio is hard to argue against.

Yes, I understand the pros and cons of each. Unless you're sitting absurdly close to the monitor making it very wide in your FoV the gamma and gamut shift of a VA panel are not significant, and 3-4x the contrast ratio is. In monitor land, most people after a high optical performance display seem to want an IPS type panel, but in TV land most people after a high performance display want a VA type panel (if we're limiting the choices to just LCDs). I don't really get the dichotomy.
I agree 100%.
 

snowhiker

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That's a nice sized monitor for the money with an 10bit IPS panel supporting 60Hz at 4K. This should fill that gap that many have complained about in terms of size for 4K viewing without scaling. I'll be interested in reviews of it once they turn up or from your experience when you get one. I'm very happy it also has a VESA mount on it. I know that shouldn't be something to be excited for but I've seen good panels not offer it and that's annoying.
Yes. Yes. Sure thing, but DD will have a review before me. I'm also happy about a VESA mount. No VESA, plus crappy stand equals a no buy. And with a 40+ inch monitor, mounting options/stand is very important.

I must be the only person who isn't infatuated with IPS. No, that doesn't mean I want a TN panel. Those suck. In general, I'd rather have a good VA type panel. 5000:1 contrast ratio is hard to argue against.

Yes, I understand the pros and cons of each.
I'm not infatuated with IPS, but like you I don't want a TN panel. I'm not opposed to a VA panel, and if the Dell was VA that wouldn't be a negative. I mainly wanted a COMPUTER monitor and not a TV monitor.

I'm personally holding out for 4K OLED. Any technology which inherently emits light has to be better than any type of backlit LCD. A 4K OLED monitor in about 24" size would be perfect for my needs.
That would be nice jtr buy it will probably be 3+ years before an OLED monitor, in a 40+ inch size, plus a "not-crazy-price" will be available. I don't require high DPI, I just want a larger size.

Scheduled delivery 5/9/2016 if you want to wait for me to give a review.
When did you order DD? You didn't let us know about the Dell before you ordered? ;)
 

jtr1962

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That would be nice jtr buy it will probably be 3+ years before an OLED monitor, in a 40+ inch size, plus a "not-crazy-price" will be available. I don't require high DPI, I just want a larger size.
My guess is OLED will be available in smaller sizes first. I personally have nothing against large monitors but for me a 40" monitor would need to be 8K for me to be happy with the pixel pitch. The Dell monitor you linked to has the same pixel pitch as my 20" 1600x1200 monitor, and DO clearly see the pixels.
 

snowhiker

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Scheduled delivery 5/9/2016 if you want to wait for me to give a review.
I created a "Dell Advantage" account and FREE shipping/handling ($-39.99) applied to checkout. Any other Dell coupon codes? DD? Not that I would guess there would be any for such a new item, but doesn't hurt to ask.

Guess I should confirm that my original Titan will output 60 Hz @ 3840x2160 via DP.
 

snowhiker

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Didn't look for codes. The spec you are looking for is DP 1.2, the quick Google I did didn't look promising.

http://hothardware.com/reviews/geforce-gtx-titan-performance-yes-it-can-play-crysis-3?page=1
Not good news if true. This specifications page lists "Maximum Digital Resolution"(1) as 4096x2160. Footnote (1) 3840x2160 at 30Hz or 4096x2160 at 24Hz supported over HDMI. 4096x2160 (including 3840x2160) at 60Hz supported over Displayport. Support for 4k tiled MST displays requires 326.19 driver or later.

So I'm hopeful. More googling required I guess. Thanks for input.
 

snowhiker

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The 43" Dell is a "P" series monitor and not in the Ultrasharp line. Is the difference simply better electronics, calibration, features, etc or are there panel differences between the lines? I wonder if an Ultrasharp 43" will show up? When? Goddamn my OCD. I want this monitor RFN.

Sent a support ticket to EVGA with questions regarding my Titan. I thought it's Display Port was v1.2 which should support 3840 x 2160 @ 60 Hz. I think/hope.
 

ddrueding

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The first gen 32" 4k I bought also wasn't an Ultrasharp. I could attribute it to cautiousness concerning a 1st generation product and not wanting to damage the Ultrasharp brand, but it is more likely that the monitor doesn't meet some technical specification (inputs or whatever).
 

snowhiker

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Sent a support ticket to EVGA with questions regarding my Titan. I thought it's Display Port was v1.2 which should support 3840 x 2160 @ 60 Hz. I think/hope.
Received an answer from EVGA and they said that the Display Port on my original Titan is a DP 1.2 port. They also quoted exactly the info from the NVIDIA site so I should fine at 3840x2160 @ 60 Hz using the DP port.
 

snowhiker

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Scheduled delivery 5/9/2016 if you want to wait for me to give a review.
I've calmed down from my initial excitement and will wait for your review.

I realized that I'm going to have to completely change my computer desk/setup to accommodate a 43" monitor. I currently have computer and 22" monitor to my left, my 24" HP center (flanked by two speakers), and my HP laser printer to my right, and other miscellaneous items on my desk.

My desk is 32" deep and I'll be able to set the 43" monitor an additional 8-12" further back, depending on the 43" monitor stand. Hopefully this will be enough. I can increase the distance an additional 8-10" if I pick up a VESA mount. Hopefully that won't be needed.
 
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