Based on BingBangBop's link, this passively cooled Radeon HD 5450 Sapphire seems reasonable for $26 after rebate. A Radeon 5450 must be better than an IGP, no?
Affordable graphics cards
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Based on BingBangBop's link, this passively cooled Radeon HD 5450 Sapphire seems reasonable for $26 after rebate. A Radeon 5450 must be better than an IGP, no?
Mercutio
Fatwah on Western Digital
The Radeon 4250 is a common IGP with a fill rate of 2240MPixels/sec and 8.53GB/sec or 11.2 GB/sec memory bandwidth. The 5240 offers a fill rate of 5400MPixels/sec and 6.4GB/sec or 12.8GB/sec memory bandwidth.
I'd say there's not much difference from one to the other.
For comparison, Intel's best IGP, the GMA HD on a Core i5, has a pixel fill rate of 1500MPixels/sec and a memory bandwidth of 17 to 23GB/sec, and the more common GMA 3000 is limited to 1600MPixels/sec and 4.6 to 6.4GH/sec.
I'd say there's not much difference from one to the other.
For comparison, Intel's best IGP, the GMA HD on a Core i5, has a pixel fill rate of 1500MPixels/sec and a memory bandwidth of 17 to 23GB/sec, and the more common GMA 3000 is limited to 1600MPixels/sec and 4.6 to 6.4GH/sec.
The 5450 looks to offer a pixel fill rate of 2,662.4 MP/s and 6.4 GB/sec (DDR2) and up to 12.8 GB/sec (DDR3). I guess in numbers/percentages it seems a bunch higher than the Intel components, but it's still not fantastic for gaming when a 5870 ranges at 27,200 Mpixels/sec. However for basic desktop use, would the card I listed should be more than adequate?
Mercutio
Fatwah on Western Digital
I suspect that the generic target for all of that boils down to acceptable performance in WoW, which has low poly-count models and textures that scale to look decent at pretty much any resolution. On an Intel IGP, you play at 800x600 and on AMD's you can probably manage 1280x1024 or 1280x768 or whatever the hell vomit-notebooks are using right now.
One of my students from a kids class was complaining to me that WoW looks nice but is unplayable on his 22" panel with his GMA3100, and looks crappy but is playable on his 128MB X300. I told him to ask Santa for a decent video card for Xmas. He'll probably end up with whatever is $100 at Best Buy (something like that 5450), which is hardly going to amount to an improvement.
One of my students from a kids class was complaining to me that WoW looks nice but is unplayable on his 22" panel with his GMA3100, and looks crappy but is playable on his 128MB X300. I told him to ask Santa for a decent video card for Xmas. He'll probably end up with whatever is $100 at Best Buy (something like that 5450), which is hardly going to amount to an improvement.
Buck
Storage? I am Storage!
Most customers are cheap, but love to complain. What they want and what they want to pay is woefully disparate. So, the goal to have a budget system with a decent price and a snappy response. An IGP doesn’t give the quickness you’d expect at 1920 x 1080 with several productivity applications open. You can’t train a customer to use only certain applications or prevent them from installing programs you’d like them to avoid. But you can make the system feel quick even under their normalized load. If you don’t, they will come back and complain. So, what, you tell them “you get what you pay for”? That’s how you lose a customer. My job is to find the right balance that sells. Does this mean that I don’t sell systems that use an IGP? No, but those are my least expensive systems. It all depends on the customer’s need.
I know you guys know hardware and understand people. Sometimes it's just more difficult when it comes to the actual sale to get the right combo.
I know you guys know hardware and understand people. Sometimes it's just more difficult when it comes to the actual sale to get the right combo.
How far off the snappiness scale is a card like a 5450 for your customer's needs? Even without a rebate, the card is ~$40. Is it still not performing enough for their needs? I completely understand what you're saying about a customer wanting more for the same if not less money and balancing it all so that you keep them happy and as a customer is a tough balance.
Mercutio
Fatwah on Western Digital
The biggest problem I've seen on low-end graphics hardware is poor HD video playback. Something like a GMA945 can drive a screen at 1920x1200, but invariably that turns a system into mush if you try to play a 720p Youtube video.
Also, every once in a while you get a "long refresh" where you can actually watch the screen redraw. I see that on the desktop in my office, which has a Core2 Quad CPU but only a Radeon 2400-something-or-other graphics card. I know the system is more than enough for the work it does but every once in a while something just kills it. I blame most problems like that on Flash though.
Also, every once in a while you get a "long refresh" where you can actually watch the screen redraw. I see that on the desktop in my office, which has a Core2 Quad CPU but only a Radeon 2400-something-or-other graphics card. I know the system is more than enough for the work it does but every once in a while something just kills it. I blame most problems like that on Flash though.
Buck
Storage? I am Storage!
That is a neat little card. Performance-wise it is at the very low end, with only the GT 210 scoring worse. At that price point, I would rather use an IGP and keep the computer price where it is. At the next level (this is of course how I tier my computers, I'm not speaking for anyone else) is where I add a discrete solution and then the 5450 under-performs. That's why I start with a 4670. The price/performance ratio for the overall system fits better. Even then I'm careful because cards in that price range are no longer passively cooled.
Now, if I could get a SAPPHIRE HD 5670 1GB card passively cooled AND at the $60.00 mark - that would be fantastic. Buck would be very happy.
blakerwry
Storage? I am Storage!
That's kind of sad, when I bought my 4670 there were several fanless options. Now HIS is the only fanless option left on NewEgg.
I've had a couple HD5450's come past me. I would have no problem using them over an IGP. They're not going to provide a noticeably faster desktop experience, but they will provide better image quality/decoding and multi-monitor support.
I agree with Buck that the 5450 probably isn't worth an extra $50 on the low low end where every dollar counts, and that the premium for a faster 4670/5570 card is probably better spent on a mid-range machine.
I ended up ordering the card I linked to because it's $25 after the rebate. In an odd sort of configuration, I'm building two systems. One will be an i3 with integrated graphics for my mom and an i7 for my dad...but the i7 doesn't support integrated graphics, so I'm going to use the 5450 for the video. My dad doesn't need high end graphics, but the i7 is more of choice I made to give him a fast machine for the first time in a very long time (2005). He likes to convert and archive videos, so the added CPU strength should be quite noticeable compared to his current AMD Sempron 1.6GHz CPU with the built in S3 Graphics UniChrome Pro IGP. If the 5450 card doesn't work out, I'm not out a lot of money and can put in another graphics card later.
Otherwise, I agree with your statement and needs for a customer. A customer who buys an i7 will likely need/want a higher performing graphics card to go with the CPU.
Buck
Storage? I am Storage!
Yeah, with my i7 systems I start with a 1GB 5770.
Except goofballs like me that use the fanless HD5450 with the 4.4GHz 980X i7? :bstd:
ddrueding
Fixture
Copying and pasting once into the decoder is pretty darn annoying, too.
blakerwry
Storage? I am Storage!
I would like to see more of these 5450 and other low end cards in a PCIe 1x configuration.
This would open the cards up to additional markets (servers, multi monitor, etc) and shouldn't hamper the performance.
I'm looking at upgrading a PC that currently drives 6 flat screens (2D graphs) and will probably have to pay a premium to buy a motherboard with 2 x16 slots and 2 cards capable of 3 monitors each.
*I do see that there are a couple older options (HD4350) for Nvidia/ATi PCIe 1x cards, but the newegg reviews indicate that half of them are DOA, and half the working ones won't display videos. Most seem to be paired with dinky heatsinks and chintzy fans... no thanks.
This would open the cards up to additional markets (servers, multi monitor, etc) and shouldn't hamper the performance.
I'm looking at upgrading a PC that currently drives 6 flat screens (2D graphs) and will probably have to pay a premium to buy a motherboard with 2 x16 slots and 2 cards capable of 3 monitors each.
*I do see that there are a couple older options (HD4350) for Nvidia/ATi PCIe 1x cards, but the newegg reviews indicate that half of them are DOA, and half the working ones won't display videos. Most seem to be paired with dinky heatsinks and chintzy fans... no thanks.
Nobhody you know, I hope.
Maybe it was subtle, but mine was a play on words in response to David's hexpost from George Michael's song.
Mercutio
Fatwah on Western Digital
My current low-end card pet peeve: Two DVI connectors and no DVI to VGA adapter in the box.
Jerks.
Jerks.
Pradeep
Storage? I am Storage!
Two DVI? That's what happens when you buy renamed nvidia turds
The 5450s seem to come with VGA, DVI and HDMI.
time
Storage? I am Storage!
I don't understand why this is an issue. Do you have monitors without DVI connectors? If so, surely you have tons of spare adapters? Last time I looked, they were only a couple of bucks each.
Two DVI? That's what happens when you buy renamed nvidia turds
The 5450s seem to come with VGA, DVI and HDMI.
That is what my card has. I've not used anything but the DVI. Do all three work at one time?
Mercutio
Fatwah on Western Digital
Many of the monitors in my office are several years old. No DVI. Oddly, because they aren't crappy TN panels and because they ARE native 1024x768, which is very comfortable for my students to read, I'm willing to overlook their faults.
I have one or two adapters in my laptop bag but frankly they should be included in a brand new box.
sechs
Storage? I am Storage!
I hope so. That way they can stop taking up space on the cards.
Working with those DisplayPort dongles is going to suck.
blakerwry
Storage? I am Storage!
I think it was pointed out somewhere else, but typically no.
Currently, ATi cards with eyefinity can push 3 (or more) monitors on a single card. A requirement for eyefinity seems to be displayport. Not sure why implementing the card with HDMI would mean giving up eyefinity, but that's how they're made.
ddrueding
Fixture
My experience with the ATI cards is as follows:
There are only two timing chips on the card. Therefore only two ports that require timing chips can be used at once. DisplayPort is the only connection that does it's own timing.
Therefore you can use as many ports as the card has, but only two of them can be anything but DisplayPort.
There are only two timing chips on the card. Therefore only two ports that require timing chips can be used at once. DisplayPort is the only connection that does it's own timing.
Therefore you can use as many ports as the card has, but only two of them can be anything but DisplayPort.
Pradeep
Storage? I am Storage!
Two out of three in this case.
Buck
Storage? I am Storage!
Has anyone used the SAPPHIRE Ultimate HD5670 1GB? Any opinions? It IS a silent GPU, which is nice to find. However, the price isn't the most friendly.
Mercutio
Fatwah on Western Digital
I tried a passively cooled Gigabyte 5670 in my main HTPC and decided that it was getting way too hot when I was watching HD content. I switched down to a 5450, which doesn't get as warm.
I suspect it might work better in a different enclosure than an Antec NSK2400, but that's where I was using it.
I suspect it might work better in a different enclosure than an Antec NSK2400, but that's where I was using it.
ddrueding
Fixture
One should be arriving today or tomorrow.
Buck
Storage? I am Storage!
Yeah, this would be going into either a CoolerMaster Centurion 541 or Antec Solo. Obviously, it would have better cooling in the Solo. But more than likely it would be used in the Centurion.
ddrueding
Fixture
Mine is going in on the wall or in the coffin. Either way a fantastic cooling system.
Pradeep
Storage? I am Storage!
http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/video/...re_Brand_New_Compute_Architecture_Slides.html
Things are looking good.
Things are looking good.
Are there any relatively cheap passive card with 2 DVI outs? The HD5450 has only one DVI. I want to be able to display the same images on two monitors, not extend the desktop. Would it be better to add another video card instead?
Stereodude
Not really a
I don't think you can clone across two video cards.
This is pretty cheap but isn't PCIe and it a step down from the 5450.
However, there are a lot of passive cards with 1 DVI and 1 HDMI. Unless you're using the analog portion of DVI-I the two are interchangeable. Just get a HDMI to DVI cable for the 2nd monitor.
This is pretty cheap but isn't PCIe and it a step down from the 5450.
However, there are a lot of passive cards with 1 DVI and 1 HDMI. Unless you're using the analog portion of DVI-I the two are interchangeable. Just get a HDMI to DVI cable for the 2nd monitor.
Stereodude
Not really a
HDMI and DVI have all the same signals (excluding the analogs signal used in DVI-A or the second set of TMDS pairs in dual link DVI) so yeah, it's just a matter of getting a cable (assuming it's not a high res monitor that needs dual link DVI).
Stereodude
Not really a
Yes it will work either way.
CougTek
Hairy Aussie
There are many used Quadro NVS285 out there with a two-DVI adapter cable. I know I can get those for less than 10$ locally.
