Another Digital Camera Thread - Point and Shoot

[e_dawg]

Canon to use CMOS sensors for compact digicams:

A spokesman for the world's largest digital camera maker said it broke ground in May on a new building on an existing site in Kanagawa Prefecture near Tokyo and expected it to start operations in July 2008.

The factory will make complementary metal oxide semiconductors (CMOS) [...]

The CMOS chips will be used in both single lens reflex (SLR) models as well as in some compact models. Canon's compact cameras have to date used a different type of image sensor called a charge-coupled device (CCD).

Canon has procured CCDs from other suppliers such as Sony Corp. (6758.T: Quote, Profile, Research), but it has been developing CMOS sensors for compact models as part of its strategy of bringing key component production in-house to lower costs.

 

[Chewy509]

Canon to use CMOS sensors for compact digicams:

Has there ever been a definitive answer on CMOS vs CCD? It seems recently that many players in the field are switching between the two technologies, so been hard to get an layman's idea of which is the desired technology to have in your camera? (Like the whole Plasma vs LCD TV thing).

I know a lot depends on the sensor size (a 6.1MP with a larger sensor, will normally produce a better image than a 10MP camera with a smaller sensor), lens type/setup, signal processor, etc.

I've been reading through some of the reviews on dpreview.com, however have been interested the Fuji FinePix S6500fd vs the Fuji FinePix S5700? Is the S6500 worth the extra $$$ for a P/S camera?

 

[e_dawg]

I don't know if there is a definitive answer, but for SLR's, some say that Canon's CMOS sensor technology is slightly better than Sony's CCD technology (which is used by Nikon and Pentax) in terms of noise vs sensitivity tradeoff and cost of production.

Then there is Fuji's Super CCD HR sensor, which is probably one of the best sensors in terms of noise vs sensitivity regardless of technology (CCD vs CMOS).

As for the Fuji S6500 vs S5700, I definitely prefer the S6500 due to its wider-angle lens, superior sensor, and RAW output. The S5700 does not use Fuji's famed Super CCD low noise sensor, which is the whole point of going with Fuji. Basically, if you get an S5700, you're not getting a real Fuji.

If you don't want to spend the $ for a S6500, a preferred alternative to the S5700 is the S5200, which can sometimes be found at deep discounts. It also has RAW output capability.

The reason why I recommend a Fuji with RAW output capability is that I don't like Fuji's JPEG image processing engine. Too steep a tone curve and too much NR (see this review for examples). It's a bit of a pain, but you can do a better job yourself using a RAW processor.

Not to mention, JPEG is lossy 8-bit data, and RAW is non-lossy 16-bit data interpolated from 12-bit A/D conversion, so you get at least 16 times more image data to work should you need to adjust your photos after the fact (which comes in very handy when you need it).

 

[e_dawg]

Dynamic range and other image characteristics cannot be properly judged without looking at the RAW files. I know that the default setting of the D80 is for a small colorspace, med-high contrast, some sharpening, and some noise reduction. These are fine for drug store prints and e-mailing files straight from the camera, but not a good place to start if you want to maximize image quality.

Just found some nice dynamic range testing done on RAW files by Imaging Resource. Now while you should ideally look at the RAW files and work with them to truly get a sense of how much dynamic range you have, and how much shadow and highlight detail you have after curve adjustments, this test gets you one step closer without having to do that.

Two key features here are that (1) they test RAW files instead of focusing on JPEG output, and (2) consistent noise / quality standards are applied to the RAW files for every camera, instead of absolute dynamic range without regard to noise (which is how some other sites test). The problem is that you can't compare the tone curves for various cameras, so it's only half the equation. Different versions of ACR also make for comparisons that are not completely consistent. In any event, this is the best quantitative test for dynamic range I've found so far, so it's worth a look.

http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/D40X/D40XIMATEST.HTM

Interesting to note that Nikon's D40x is noted as having superior dynamic range (quantitatively) compared to every dSLR except the Fuji S3 Pro, with very good subjective results as well.

 

[Chewy509]

As for the Fuji S6500 vs S5700, I definitely prefer the S6500 due to its wider-angle lens, superior sensor, and RAW output. The S5700 does not use Fuji's famed Super CCD low noise sensor, which is the whole point of going with Fuji. Basically, if you get an S5700, you're not getting a real Fuji.

Thanks for the info, I'll start shopping for a S6500 then... (unless someone else can recommend a similar spec'd camera, in the same price category).

 

[e_dawg]

Of course, I can't resist mentioning that it's not too much more to step up to an SLR like the D40 when it goes on sale (or if you want to buy a used D50, for example)... although, when you get good deals like this on the S6000, the pricing gap is hard to ignore:

http://www.amazon.com/Fujifilm-Fine...0?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1184905660&sr=8-1

You can't get much more camera than that for $315. (and can you get $50 off on top of that, or is that already factored into the price?) Wow, deals like this makes me wish I lived in the US.

Whoops, sorry, forgot you live in Oz. Anyways, for our US friends, this is a killer deal. If you're looking for a superzoom bridge camera, this is the one to get.

 

[Chewy509]

Of course, I can't resist mentioning that it's not too much more to step up to an SLR like the D40 when it goes on sale (or if you want to buy a used D50, for example)... although, when you get good deals like this on the S6000, the pricing gap is hard to ignore:

http://www.amazon.com/Fujifilm-Fine...0?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1184905660&sr=8-1

You can't get much more camera than that for $315. (and can you get $50 off on top of that, or is that already factored into the price?) Wow, deals like this makes me wish I lived in the US.

Whoops, sorry, forgot you live in Oz. Anyways, for our US friends, this is a killer deal. If you're looking for a superzoom bridge camera, this is the one to get.

Here is OZ, Fuji S6500fd (or S6000fd as it's known in the US) is ~AU$460, vs Nikon D40 is ~AU$930... and for an extra AU$250 to get the D40 with a twin lens pack (total AU$1180). (AF-S DX 18-55mm f3.5-5.6G ED II and AF-S DX 55-200mm f4-5.6G ED lens).

 

[e_dawg]

I see... Anyone in the US feel like being a distributor?

 

[e_dawg]

Fuji S5 Pro on sale. I don't know if I can resist...

http://www.vistek.ca/details/details.aspx?WebCode=228998&CategoryID=DigitalSLRs

Basically, a Nikon D200 with the Fuji Super CCD SR sensor giving an extra stop or two of dynamic range (most of it in the highlight range) vs its competitors. Only the D40x comes close. 14-bit image data and 6 MP interpolated to 16-bit 12 MP RAW. That's some good tonality that can be used with the Adobe colour space.

 

[Tannin]

It's a very well-respected model, E_dawg, don't see that you'd go too far wrong.

I just went stupid agan and ordered yet another lens: a 24mm Canon tilt-shift this time. Wish me luck!

 

[e_dawg]

LOL... This stuff is as bad as audio equipment. I've blown so much $ on these two hobbies this year that I can feel my retirement slipping away into the future

 

[udaman]

Fuji S5 Pro on sale. I don't know if I can resist...

http://www.vistek.ca/details/details.aspx?WebCode=228998&CategoryID=DigitalSLRs

Basically, a Nikon D200 with the Fuji Super CCD SR sensor giving an extra stop or two of dynamic range (most of it in the highlight range) vs its competitors. Only the D40x comes close. 14-bit image data and 6 MP interpolated to 16-bit 12 MP RAW. That's some good tonality that can be used with the Adobe colour space.

Nice dSLR, expensive...I'll wait for the Oly semi-pro model with articulating live LCD. So will HDR tech work for even greater than 12EV on this cam?

Back to the OP theme of PnS. for dd's dilema, I'm wondering about all the marketing hype 'improvements' for the F31 replacement, called f50fd available in September '07 (uses SD cards now). 12MP, it's got to suffer in the ISO noise/lack of detail dept, there is no miracle in 7th gen Super CCD. Also disappointed in lack of wide angle, as the non-Super CCD compact model does have a 28mm equiv wide 4x lens :-(, I'd rather have that than 12MP. 12MP in a sensor that small is a joke.:rant:

http://www.dpreview.com/news/0707/07072604fujifilmf50fd.asp

I hate these claims of 'full manual' control over exposures, highly misleading... semi-manual is more accurate.

Adds mechanical CCD shift stablization, about the only truly useful improvement on this cam that isn't just purely marketing driven.:tdown::zzz:


Just wanted to add, edit function is working much better now, seems zippy even compared to problems I was having last time editing the post...maybe my dialup connection is just running faster today?

Edit for the 3rd time, I'm just getting silly/giddy/spammy now...works so fast!

 

[e_dawg]

Totally agree with you, udaman. 12 MP? Such marketing driven utter bullshit. I was expecting it to be the usual Fuji 6 MP interpolated to 12 deal, but I guess it's actually 12 M photosites on the sensor. Maybe they learned enough about using 12 M photosites from the Super CCD SR sensor that they use in their SLR's that they managed to actually create a decent 12 MP 1/1.6" compact sensor. Hey, if Canon can do an acceptable job fitting 10 MP onto a 1/1.8" sensor (the A640), Fuji should be able to do 12 MP on a 1/1.6" sensor and beat Canon in the noise department.

If Fuji was smart, they would make the F50fd the successor to the more mainstream consumer oriented F40fd, and make the successor to the F31fd use the same 6th gen 6 MP Super CCD HR sensor as the F31 and add the CCD-shift IS to it. Now that would be revolutionary and set a new standard in low light photography.

Right now, the F31 is good in low light because of its relatively clean output at high ISO, but not much better than an image stabilized Canon A710IS, for example, at 200 ISO. Add the IS to the 6 MP Super CCD HR sensor and you have a 2 stop advantage over a competing image stabilized digicam or the F10/F30/F31 predecessors, and a 4-5 stop advantage over most other non-IS digicams! That's "SLR with an IS lens territory"!

 

[e_dawg]

Nice dSLR, expensive...I'll wait for the Oly semi-pro model with articulating live LCD. So will HDR tech work for even greater than 12EV on this cam?

Well that's the reason I wanted this camera. 10-12 EV DR (depending on how you judge DR) and 14-bit output from the sensor (compared to 8-10 EV and 12-bit usually, for those who don't know) means you have a lot to work with for post-processing. As good as the DR is out of the camera, you can still recover more than half a stop at both the highlight and shadow ends and do curve adjustments to get something like a 11-13 EV range!

When it's all said and done, the S5 addresses the DR limitations of most cameras without necessitating the use of HDR, which is often impractical. That unique capability makes it worth the price, IMO. I can't tell you how many times a grad ND filter was not practical and I found myself wishing for just 2 more stops of DR.

With the D40 and D80, I found myself tapering off the highlights on the curves ALL THE TIME, and obviously, it still wasn't enough. I don't know why Nikon insists on using a linear response at the highlight end on the curve.

 

[udaman]

Well that's the reason I wanted this camera. 10-12 EV DR (depending on how you judge DR) and 14-bit output from the sensor (compared to 8-10 EV and 12-bit usually, for those who don't know) means you have a lot to work with for post-processing. As good as the DR is out of the camera, you can still recover more than half a stop at both the highlight and shadow ends and do curve adjustments to get something like a 11-13 EV range!

When it's all said and done, the S5 addresses the DR limitations of most cameras without necessitating the use of HDR, which is often impractical. That unique capability makes it worth the price, IMO. I can't tell you how many times a grad ND filter was not practical and I found myself wishing for just 2 more stops of DR.

With the D40 and D80, I found myself tapering off the highlights on the curves ALL THE TIME, and obviously, it still wasn't enough. I don't know why Nikon insists on using a linear response at the highlight end on the curve.

I would love to be able to afford such a $2,500 Fuji sensor/D200 (w/28-200 VR Nikkor lens). But I'll wait, as I could put stock on it that you'll see similar performance, with lots of improvements like articulating OLED's etc (assuming Fuji is still around) in 2-5 years at under $1k, which is more than enough money to pay for any digicam. I still remember when the original Canon procam, F1 & 50-300 Zoom could be bought together for just over $1k back in the mid-70's. Going off on another tangent...something random (jtr taught me well ), I've never seen the movie Full Metal Jacket, so I guess I missed out on seeing the vintage Nikon F1 or the likes, though I kind of remember them since the improved models F2 or such were being sold in the '70's:

http://photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=00JgSX


Then again, WWII tract homes in my area, 3B/2B 1,500 sq ft, remodeled are selling for $1.5 million, non-remodeled but improved are around $750K+ for 3B/1B just over 1k sq ft, all of these were selling for 1/2 than less than 10yrs ago, it's insane.

Well I would hope you could use the HDR tech to get more than 1/2 stop more at both ends, shadow & highlight. IIRC, Red One camcorder is supposedly of about 14EV DR, but then it depends on who's subjective opinion you're listening to (this is much greater than most currently available 2k or 4k camcorders, exception might be the Dalsa Origin which is rental only unless you're Lucas/Speilberg and want to buy a group of them for a million or so ..but the Dalsa Origin's 35mm format CMOS sensor is only rated at ISO240 or something pretty low IIRC for that 12 stop DR). I could always use more than 12 stop DR, as my eyes usually differentiate that much or more, who wouldn't want even more, if it were possible? Is there such a thing as too much DR? Wedding photography is not the only use for such DR, it makes all pictures look more lifelike, IMO.

I'm always, using PS 'curves' as a quick fix to bump up shadow detail and try to recover some highlight detail without mucking up the image too much.

I just checked the 'big chain' Best Buy & Circuit City electronics retailers for the TX1 (yeah, I know it's supposedly crap in low-light for vids, has no manual control... but I have to try it any way, it's the only Hi-Def 720p vid capable hybrid that fits into a pocket without bulging too much). As I though, there are exceptions, camcorders/digicams are subject to 15% restocking fee, and you only have 14days. So, not as easy as you think to use and then return for full refund, 15% of purchase price is substantial... it's a no go at either of these, and BB has the gall to overcharge by $100, over the MSRP of $500 on this Canon TX1!

Best Buy online statement:
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage...=cat10004&contentId=1117177044087&id=cat12098

Restocking fee
A restocking fee of 15% will be charged on opened notebook computers, projectors, camcorders, digital cameras, radar detectors, GPS/navigation and in-car video systems unless defective or prohibited by law. A restocking fee of 25% will be charged on Special Order Products, including appliances unless defective or prohibited by law.

Circuit City:
http://www.circuitcity.com/rpsm/cat/-13414/edOid/105452/rpem/ccd/lookLearn.do

Return guidelines

• Digital cameras, camcorders, desktop PCs, notebook PCs, monitors, printers, scanners, projectors, PDAs, mobile video, GPS and radar detectors must be returned within 14 days of the sale date, and (except where prohibited by law) are subject to a 15% restocking fee if returned opened or in a non-factory sealed box.

 

[e_dawg]

That's too bad about the return policy, but I guess I can't blame them. Technology moves quickly enough that nobody wants to get stuck with an open box returned item, especially if a new model comes out around the time you return your now obsolete model.

... I have to try it any way, it's the only Hi-Def 720p vid capable hybrid that fits into a pocket without bulging too much)

Ah, the truth comes out! You wanted to buy something that fits into your pocket and gives you a little bulge! (but not too much)

As for the S5 Pro, I couldn't pass up the great deal I got:

- saw a promo for 15% off MSRP at one online retailer
- price matched at another online retailer that resides in a province that doesn't charge sales tax, thus saving another 8%
- all told, I saved about 22%, or $500, which makes it virtually the same price that I can get the D200 for

 

[LunarMist]

Do you do weddings or similar events?

 

[e_dawg]

Well, I "do" weddings sometimes, but not as a professional. Yeah, I know. They should just call the S5 Pro the WeddingMaster 2000 or something.

It's nice to be able to just take the shot sometimes without worrying so much about the lighting and DR or not even bothering to take the shot at all (and I'm not talking about weddings here... just in general). Too many times I have passed on taking what might have been a nice picture because I thought 'it's just not going to turn out. The lighting, the dynamic range, etc."

And to be perfectly honest with you, half of it is just confidence. Part of the benefit of using the S5 Pro is that it changes your mindset. I take more pics. Sure, some of them still don't turn out, but more of them do. And really, it's about getting more keepers... more gems. They're one in a hundred, but if you take 500 shots, you're going to get more gems than if you take 250 shots because you just didn't bother sometimes.

The only annoying thing is the ridiculously large RAW files that take forever to write to the card. And I honestly don't think there is any excuse here. Not just for Fuji and the S5 Pro, but for all manufacturers and all models. RAM is dirt cheap these days and they're nickel and diming us on a couple dozen megabytes here. I don't want to have to get a pro SLR just to shoot a bunch of RAW + JPEG shots without waiting.

 

[mubs]

... Canon Powershot A620 ...

Anyone know if it's safe to use Lithium AAs? I have read that Canon discourages their use in cameras meant to use rechargeables. 4 x 1.2v = 4.8v for the NiMH AAs as opposed to the full 4 x 1.5v = 6.0v the Lithiums put out.

I was wrong. The new Energizer Lithium AAs I have put out 1.8v each. Thats 20% over spec: 7.2v instead of 6.0v (compared to Alkalines). And NiMH batteries put out 4.8v, 20% under spec (compared to Alkalines). So the Lithiums will be 50% over the voltage of the NiMH AAs. The manual says the camera only supports alkalines, NiMH, or the AC adapter, which puts out 4.3 vdc.

I still can't screw up the courage to put Lithium AAs in the A620 and burn it up. Besides, the Lithiums are single use, and I'll be spending a fortune on them and filling landfills with them when they die.

Problem is, most of my shooting these days is indoors, of functions. Heavy, near continuous use of flash. The NiMHs just die using the flash. I press the shutter button, and nothing happens for 3-4 seconds; then the camera takes the shot. By then it's too late, of course.

The camera does not support an external flash. I can use a slave flash that is triggered by the built-in flash, but that doesn't solve the original problem.

I'm seriously thinking of getting the AC adapter for the camers - runs ~ $50. And the Xantrex XPower PowerSource Mobile 100 - ~ $110. It's a portable power unit that packs a 4.0 Ah Lithium-Ion battery pack and an inverter. It's a goofball situation - a battery with an inverter that converts the battery to 110 VAC, and an AC to DC adapter that converts that AC back to DC and feeds it into the camera.

This will mean I will lug the battery pack / inverter + the AC adapter in a bag slung over my shoulder. Much like the photographers of old who carried around a lead-acid battery to power their flash. Not to mention the bother of a wire sticking out of the camera, getting in the way. The question is, will the 4.0Ah battery in the inverter have enough juice for a couple of hours of flash photography? The internal voltage of the battery is 11 volts.

I am thinking of buying the external slave flash for this camera as well; another $100. The built-in flash just can't throw far enough and light up the last row of people in a group well enough.

Or should I save this money ($50 + $110 + $100 = $260) to eventually buy a DSLR? Anybody know if these DSLR batteries have enough juice to power the camera + flash for near continuous use indoors for an hour or two?

The advantage with the battery pack / inverter is that it is a generic solution that can be used for multiple purposes and I already have a fairly good camera (except for powering its flash).

 

[Will Rickards]

Dude you need a D40. It's only $525. Yes the battery lasts an hour or two indoors. More even. I haven't had the battery die yet. I've recharged it right before events. And the flash is fast enough. If not you have a shoe for a different flash. You'll miss the shot preview on the LCD before you take the picture though. And movie mode.

Or maybe you just need to use some high capacity rechargables.
I used these Maha Powerex 2700mAh with my Canon A60 and never had a problem with battery life or flash.

 

[Stereodude]

I do hope you enjoy your F31, though, and find that my fears are unjustified. Sorry to rain on your parade before you even got your camera... but if anything, you'll be pleasantly surprised after hearing me trash it for the last few days

Some pictures of my new house as it's being built all take with the F31fd. link

 

[Will Rickards]

What's a 52 winnick? Is that the address?

 

[Stereodude]

What's a 52 winnick? Is that the address?

Are you joking? Never been through a new subdivision development before?

It's lot #52 in a development, and the Builder is Winnick Homes.

 

[Will Rickards]

Once when we were looking at a house in NJ. But there isn't much new development around where I live.

 

[Stereodude]

Once when we were looking at a house in NJ. But there isn't much new development around where I live.

Oh... Well, that's how it works... Lot number and builder usually, unless the development has only 1 builder.

 

[LOST6200]

Are there be any decent P/S cameras wtih wide angle lenese for old people? Most I see are only =~ 35m minimum equvi. in the fiklm formats.

 

[mubs]

Will,

Thanks. I suspect any camera with a Li-Io battery will be able to handle the task.

I am using good NiMH batteries - I have from 2300 to 2500 mAh Maha Powerex, Sanyo and Energizer batteries, but none of them can handle the task. They will last a week+ in cold temperatures for non-flash shooting, but sustained use of the flash just brings them to their knees.

I will check out the D40; guess I should read this thread in detail again, especially e_dawg's posts.

 

[Stereodude]

Are there be any decent P/S cameras wtih wide angle lenese for old people? Most I see are only =~ 35m minimum equvi. in the fiklm formats.

The Ricoh Caplio GX100 has a 24mm equiv. http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/ricohgx100/

 

[Will Rickards]

Mubs, sounds like even with the D40 you'll want a dedicated flash unit. There are ones for the D40 like the SB-400 which takes two AA and has a 2.5 second recycle time. That is another $150. I'll probably pick one up around christmas time.

 

[e_dawg]

Yes, the D40 is a nice little SLR, and the SB-400 external flash is an excellent value. An external flash with bounce capability adds so much improvement to the quality of your pics taken with flash that it is the first thing I would buy with an SLR. Natural looking flash photography is not easy. Help yourself by getting a flash, a diffuser, and some gels if you shoot in mixed lighting.

I would like to add some food for thought that may help you make a more informed decision, depending on what you would like to do with photography in the future:

1. Photokina is around the corner, which means cameras are being discounted left, right, and center in advance of new model launches. Some have already been discounted, had their stock depleted, and have already been announced (e.g., Fuji). Others have yet to do so (Nikon). Canon and Pentax are just starting to. Bottom line is that you can get some good deals if you know what you want and what to look for.

2. The Pentax K100D on sale is possibly the best value on the market in an entry level dSLR right now, IMO. Why? It has mechanical image stabilization built-in -- something that no other entry level has. You would have to buy a Nikon or Canon and then buy a VR or IS lens to get that feature, and by that time, you will have spent considerably more than using the Pentax right out of the box.

The problem is that you're stuck with the Pentax system, which is overall a 2nd tier system compared to Nikon and Canon's very comprehensive systems. If all you want is the best SLR right now, out of the box for the $, I might suggest the Pentax. If you are looking long term and want to buy several more lenses over the years, I say go with Nikon or Canon.

3. I am seeing the Canon Rebel XT and XTi on sale for $100-200 off MSRP. Basically, you can get an XT for less than a D40 at some places, and you can get an XTi for not much more than a D40. I still prefer the Nikon system overall for its selection of VR zoom lenses, flash system, and handling, but to be honest, you get more camera for the $ with a discounted Rebel XT/XTi.

Canon is releasing a successor to the 30D for sure, but I wonder if they are releasing a successor to the XT to compete against the D40. The discounting seems to indicate something is in the works. I don't think Nikon has any plans to release a successor to the D40 at this point. Maybe at PMA in early 2008, but not now. So I don't think you'll see the D40 discounted to the same extent as the Canons will be.

More thoughts to come... feel free to add to them.

 

[Chewy509]

Fuji is releasing two new FinePix S Series cameras, the S5800 (to replace the S5700) and the S8000fd.

Both 8MP models, big zoom, 10x on the S5800 and 18x on the S8000fd. However, neither have the Fuji Super CCD sensor, (both relying on a normal 1/2.5" CCD sensor)

Pricing still TBC.

PS. Even though I've just recently ordered a FinePix S6500fd, I don't feel like I've missed on anything with these two new models coming in...

 

[LunarMist]

PK is still 13 months away - a far corner.

 

[mubs]

Thanks for the replies, guys. I read thru this entire thread, read some reviews at dpreview, and am totally confused. There's nothing but compromise after compromise. Going the dSLR route appears to be like signing an agreement to set aside 15% of my income for the rest of my life. First the camera body, then the lenses, then the external flash, then... oh, on and on.

As for the K100D, e-dawg, you said earlier in this thread:

As a direct competitor to the D40, however, I did look at the K110D (6 MP) and K100D (6 MP + anti-shake). But I passed on them due to their limited RAW output options (non-compressed RAW only -- no compressed RAW or RAW + JPEG option), auto ISO limitations (can't use w/ exposure comp), and approach to sharpening and noise reduction (JPEGs not as sharp as I would like, not enough NR for me -- chroma noise esp. too high).

If I'm spending the moolah for a dSLR, I might as well get one that has fewer compromises. But the more I learn, the more terrified I become of the endless drain on the wallet.

e_dawg already has 3 dSLRs and has opted to not have a retirement. Tannin has already sold him mother thrice. If I didn't learn from their experience, i'd be a fool. :king:

I'm too confused right now, so I'll lie low for a bit and see if that clears the air for me. Thanks, all.

 

[LunarMist]

Who needs retirement? I have four DSLRs including two with 16.7 MP. Yet like most people, I have more invested in glass than bodies.

 

[e_dawg]

PK is still 13 months away - a far corner.

What year is it? 2007? Whoops Heh, I saw all the cameras go on sale and I automatically thought it was because of Photokina...

 

[e_dawg]

There's nothing but compromise after compromise. Going the dSLR route appears to be like signing an agreement to set aside 15% of my income for the rest of my life. First the camera body, then the lenses, then the external flash, then... oh, on and on.

Not necessarily. Only if you're really into this stuff like we are. Tell me, are you prone to having bouts of OCD If you're like the other 80% of the world, you buy something the salesman says is good and you're happy with it until it's obsolete or broken (or until your friends and coworkers start talking about this new thing that you HAVE to take a look at .

As for the K100D, e-dawg, you said earlier in this thread:

As a direct competitor to the D40, however, I did look at the K110D (6 MP) and K100D (6 MP + anti-shake). But I passed on them due to their limited RAW output options (non-compressed RAW only -- no compressed RAW or RAW + JPEG option), auto ISO limitations (can't use w/ exposure comp), and approach to sharpening and noise reduction (JPEGs not as sharp as I would like, not enough NR for me -- chroma noise esp. too high).

Ah yes, I remember. Absence makes the heart grow fonder, no? Er, scratch that recommendation for the K100D... Seriously, though: it is capable of better pics in low light than the D40 or Rebel XT by virtue of its anti-shake. Unfortunately, you would have to sacrifice convenience and production efficiency to get it.

Perhaps Pentax will release a firmware update that will address these issues. They seem like they could be taken care of by firmware, anyways.

If I'm spending the moolah for a dSLR, I might as well get one that has fewer compromises.

Well then a Nikon or discounted Canon is what you want.

e_dawg already has 3 dSLRs and has opted to not have a retirement. Tannin has already sold him mother thrice. If I didn't learn from their experience, i'd be a fool. :king:

Part of the problem is that I have fallen back into the pit of despair known as audiophile...dom? The cameras are probably more of a diversion to keep me from buying audio equipment Seriously, though... There's not much I need from the D80 and S5 Pro that I can't live without. I can honestly be very happy with just the D40 if I had to.

 

[mubs]

I ain't buyin anything but some Eneloops. I've had the benefit of having a PM chat with jtr, and his awesome advice has clarified my thinking and what I have to do - like a severely myopic guy who's now wearing glasses and sees clearly.

Thanks everybody. But most of all, thanks jtr for the patient explanations and for teaching me what I had to know.

And this certainly isn't the first time jtr has been so generous with me. May he live long and prosper!

 

[LunarMist]

I captured these on Amazon this morning.

1Ds MK III 40D

 

[ddrueding]

$8k for a body, and assuming you spend more on glass, and that that couldn't possibly be your only body... That is an expensive hobby you have there.

 

[e_dawg]

Good catch, LM!