mubs
Storage? I am Storage!
If I get one with Win 8, am I automatically eligible to upgrade to Win 8.1 online? Thanks.
Crap selection of laptops
- Thread starter Chewy509
- Start date
Mercutio
Fatwah on Western Digital
Vostro notebooks I've seen in the past are rebadged Inspirons. They're still supported by the consumer products group, not the people who support Latitudes and Precisions. So that would be vomit, then.
As far as specs, just about anything with a mainstream CPU is probably fast enough. Unless you know you have a specific need for a top-end feature (hardware virtualization), there's almost no difference between CPUs within any particular product line; don't go out of your way to get an i5 since the only difference is a very modest bump in clock speed.
I suspect that the single most important characteristic of a modern laptop is screen resolution. I've been telling people to make sure they get at least 800 vertical pixels because a LOT of shitty notebooks right now ship with 1366x768 panels and I want those guys ruled out immediately. There's nothing more aggravating than finding an everyday application that can't be made to comfortably fit on-screen. Almost everything we do (on laptops, at least) these days is web-based or decoupled from overall processing power, so being able to pack more pixels on the screen is probably a bigger concern than a .03% speed boost.
As far as specs, just about anything with a mainstream CPU is probably fast enough. Unless you know you have a specific need for a top-end feature (hardware virtualization), there's almost no difference between CPUs within any particular product line; don't go out of your way to get an i5 since the only difference is a very modest bump in clock speed.
I suspect that the single most important characteristic of a modern laptop is screen resolution. I've been telling people to make sure they get at least 800 vertical pixels because a LOT of shitty notebooks right now ship with 1366x768 panels and I want those guys ruled out immediately. There's nothing more aggravating than finding an everyday application that can't be made to comfortably fit on-screen. Almost everything we do (on laptops, at least) these days is web-based or decoupled from overall processing power, so being able to pack more pixels on the screen is probably a bigger concern than a .03% speed boost.
mubs
Storage? I am Storage!
Thanks Mark & Merc.
Everything seems to have a 1366 x 768 display. Is going to be tough to find something with more vertical pixels. I'll look.
Everything seems to have a 1366 x 768 display. Is going to be tough to find something with more vertical pixels. I'll look.
CougTek
Hairy Aussie
The power button is usually quite obvious, either on the front or top of the tower/desktop box. Once opened, the way to shut it down depends on the operating system you use. In Windows 8 or 8.1, you send your mouse cursor to the top or bottom right corner, chose "settings" and then click on the circle with a vertical bar in it at the bottom of the screen.
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ddrueding
Fixture
Try removing the battery, keeping it plugged in, and turning it on.
mubs
Storage? I am Storage!
Thanks DD, but no cigar. The power indicator stays lit for 7 seconds, then goes off. In this period, towards the end, the Bluetooth light flashes (going thru post). After this, the battery icon flashes once then all goes dead.
Coug, I was talking about opening up the laptop's insides to see what's wrong, not Windows 8. Surely you don't think me that stupid? I used that same laptop for 5+ years in my previous job.
Coug, I was talking about opening up the laptop's insides to see what's wrong, not Windows 8. Surely you don't think me that stupid? I used that same laptop for 5+ years in my previous job.
mubs
Storage? I am Storage!
I dropped off the laptop at a nearby repair place. The guy called now and said it could be fixed for ~ $46; something in the power circuit had gone wonky. I've asked him to fix it. We'll see how it goes.
timwhit
Hairy Aussie
Not bad. Here it would be $100 just to look at it.
mubs
Storage? I am Storage!
Too good to be true? Sounds like it.
The next day another bloke called from the place and said "AMD chip is dead, will cost $80+". Couldn't tell me if was the AMD CPU or which chip. Then I got an email that it was AMD chip 216-PQUY6A6VAR. Goggle knows nothing about this chip. I told them to give back the laptop as is. Not worth blowing that kind of money on what could be a very iffy fix. They can always have it back in the shop claiming another chip died. I'll have to pay $10 because they checked it out.
Now the search is on. Plan to buy from a retail store; it appears one can get the extended warranty easily there compared to local online places where the web checkout is iffy and doesn't offer the option. The local stores have also apparently got smart and are undercutting the online stores by a small amount.
Shortlisted for Lenovo are:
Essentials G500 59-370358
Essentials G500 59-380860
Essentials G510 59-382757
Essentials G510 59-382826
Essentials G510 59-398343
Essentials G510 59-398431
Essentials G580 59-341688
IdeaPad Z580 59-333651
IdeaPad Z580 59-347604
IdeaPad Z580 59-370239
IdeaPad Z580 59-382934
ThinkPad W530
ThinkPad L530
ThinkPad T530
ThinkPad Edge E531
The Thinkpads may be too expensive, though.
Shortlisted for HP Pavilion:
15-B001TU (Sleekbook - no optical)
15-E015TX
15-e015tx
15-E016TX
15-E039TX
15-n010TX
15-n011TX
15-n012TX
15-n018TU
15-n019TU
G6-2103TU
G6-2309TU
G6-2320TX
May or may not shortlist Dell; . Their web site is just awful, and no options are given to customize the config, unlike their US website (in the past anyway).
Generally looking for a processor of recent vintage, 4 GB RAM (I'll add 2 GB if it comes with 2), 15.6" screen, HDD >= 320GB, at least 1xUSB3, decent battery, Win 8, no overheating or problems. Some models come with FreeDos or Lunix, and I'll put a copy of Win7 on it if that's the case, but it needs to have proper drivers etc. available for Win 7. Preference is for W8 since it is planned to keep this for the next few years and sw compatibility/support is important, as is extended warranty / Accidental Damage Protection.
The next day another bloke called from the place and said "AMD chip is dead, will cost $80+". Couldn't tell me if was the AMD CPU or which chip. Then I got an email that it was AMD chip 216-PQUY6A6VAR. Goggle knows nothing about this chip. I told them to give back the laptop as is. Not worth blowing that kind of money on what could be a very iffy fix. They can always have it back in the shop claiming another chip died. I'll have to pay $10 because they checked it out.
Now the search is on. Plan to buy from a retail store; it appears one can get the extended warranty easily there compared to local online places where the web checkout is iffy and doesn't offer the option. The local stores have also apparently got smart and are undercutting the online stores by a small amount.
Shortlisted for Lenovo are:
Essentials G500 59-370358
Essentials G500 59-380860
Essentials G510 59-382757
Essentials G510 59-382826
Essentials G510 59-398343
Essentials G510 59-398431
Essentials G580 59-341688
IdeaPad Z580 59-333651
IdeaPad Z580 59-347604
IdeaPad Z580 59-370239
IdeaPad Z580 59-382934
ThinkPad W530
ThinkPad L530
ThinkPad T530
ThinkPad Edge E531
The Thinkpads may be too expensive, though.
Shortlisted for HP Pavilion:
15-B001TU (Sleekbook - no optical)
15-E015TX
15-e015tx
15-E016TX
15-E039TX
15-n010TX
15-n011TX
15-n012TX
15-n018TU
15-n019TU
G6-2103TU
G6-2309TU
G6-2320TX
May or may not shortlist Dell; . Their web site is just awful, and no options are given to customize the config, unlike their US website (in the past anyway).
Generally looking for a processor of recent vintage, 4 GB RAM (I'll add 2 GB if it comes with 2), 15.6" screen, HDD >= 320GB, at least 1xUSB3, decent battery, Win 8, no overheating or problems. Some models come with FreeDos or Lunix, and I'll put a copy of Win7 on it if that's the case, but it needs to have proper drivers etc. available for Win 7. Preference is for W8 since it is planned to keep this for the next few years and sw compatibility/support is important, as is extended warranty / Accidental Damage Protection.
Mercutio
Fatwah on Western Digital
I strongly suspect that Windows 7 will be supported for rather longer than 8.x, in much the same way and for much the same reason as Windows XP was. Beyond that, Lenovo and Apple are the only two companies that offer internationally valid warranties on notebooks; most notebook warranties are for the country or continent of purchase only.
Also, Pavilions have utterly notorious problems with breaking and disconnecting AC charging ports, to the point that I don't even bother to open them up any more.
Also, Pavilions have utterly notorious problems with breaking and disconnecting AC charging ports, to the point that I don't even bother to open them up any more.
mubs
Storage? I am Storage!
Thanks Merc, Lenovo is certainly at the top of the list.
Chewy509
Wotty wot wot.
Just to add to what Merc said, be careful with the Pavillions, as HP will often limit Windows support to only the latest version of Windows is at the time of it's release. IIRC, the only supported version of Windows on current model Pavillions is Windows 8, therefore the support area won't have any Windows 7 drivers available... (You'll need to hunt down and install the Windows 7 drivers manually from each components manufacturers website).
PS. The G6-2103TU is an old model (eg released before Windows 8 came out, so HP will only officially support Windows 7 and not 8 on it).
PPS. "AMD chip 216-PQUY6A6VAR" is a Dell Part number for a AMD Turion 64 X2 TL-60 CPU.
PS. The G6-2103TU is an old model (eg released before Windows 8 came out, so HP will only officially support Windows 7 and not 8 on it).
PPS. "AMD chip 216-PQUY6A6VAR" is a Dell Part number for a AMD Turion 64 X2 TL-60 CPU.
CougTek
Hairy Aussie
The sentence was complete right there. No need to add anything after. I've had more HP Pavilion sent to me for repair than any other brand, including Acer (that should be scary to you). The HP Elitebook are great, but the Pavilion, well, if robots could shit, Pavilion would be their turds.
ddrueding
Fixture
Brilliant.
sedrosken
Florida Man
Just curious, why do you guys censor S*ny but not shitboxes?
Some kinda royalty payment avoiding thing going here?
Some kinda royalty payment avoiding thing going here?
sedrosken
Florida Man
I didn't know you could even use a Xeon for daily use! What is it like?
sedrosken
Florida Man
Hah, took a quick look at the PC specs from '04 page. Looks like my GX270 isn't far off the mark - - w/ gigabit lan, sata, dvd rom, 80 GB HDD, and 2.8 GHz P4... AND 6 USB 2.0 ports... AND a whole gigabyte of RAM...
To my knowledge no one here has censored anything. Did you have a post edited?
sedrosken said:
Single Xeons work just like any other Intel processor when placed in a consumer MB. You are not very likely to notice much difference but there are some. They can cost more! When they can be OC'ed they tend to do better than consumer chips. They sometimes have some extra features that consumer chips do not that you are not likely to need. You do have to get a MB with a BIOS that allows them, for not all do.
Chewy509
Wotty wot wot.
I think he is refering to how Merc writes Sony. Merc's dislikes Sony so much, her can't even get to write Sony as Sony...
Exactly.... The most notable differences are:
1. All Xeon's are able to utilise Reg ECC RAM (for robustness).
2. Chipsets designed for Xeons can allow you to use your system RAM in a RAID1 like setup to further improve robustness. (You most only see this in servers from IBM/HP/Dell).
3. Xeon's tend not to have features removed for market segregation. Eg, they all have Hyper-Threading, most if not all have the full set of virtualisation technologies, they are also better tested with more thermal headroom (and becuase of this, they can overclock quite well).
4. E5/E7/E9 Xeons can be used in multi-socket systems, allowing for more CPU cores and RAM per system.
5. IIRC, all socket 2011 Xeons are quad-channel RAM capable, but socket 1150 based systems (Haswell) are only dual channel RAM capable, so only have half of the memory bandwidth available to feed all those cores. (Socket 2011 Xeons have upto 52GB/s or memory bandwidth).
6. Xeons (traditionally) have more cache than desktop CPUs, but this hasn't been the case in a while. Xeons will tend to have more cores per CPU (E7 Xeons now have 10 cores per CPU).
As for cost, comparing an E3 Xeon to the equivalent spec i7, I only see about a $40-$50 price difference for socket 1150 CPUs from local suppliers...
Chewy509
Wotty wot wot.
I just realised I wrote Sony 4 times in my last post... Sorry Merc. 
mubs
Storage? I am Storage!
Thanks Chewy. I specifically asked the bloke if it was the CPU that was fried, and he said, "No, it's the chip next to it". Go figure.
I checked out some Lenovos in a store this morning. Apparently only the Thinkpads have matte displays. All the others have glossy displays that reflect everything around. Also many models have trackpads filled with small dots that many people dislike, and the trackpads work goofy (and many hate this). Damned either way.
Lenovo's website has some models listed. The retailer didn't know about many of those (he checked his computer), but he had other models that Lenovo didn't have on their web site. The local Amazon copy cat has tons of models not listed on Lenovo's site or known to the retailer.
Same thing with HP.
I guess they're playing the old game of inventing a new SKU for the same product sold through each distribution channel so a consumer can't make an apples to apples comparison.
Also both manufacturers have literally tons of models across all the distribution channels that are virtually the same. Eg. Lenovo will have about a dozen models with the same CPU, RAM, display, ports etc. I fail to see the point of this.
Mercutio
Fatwah on Western Digital
ddrueding
Fixture
Restrained swearing is allowed. Those are words with meanings, and if you mean it, use it.
sedrosken
Florida Man
Wow, that person was really unhelpful. I'm sorry Merc. I'll never write S*ny the way they do ever again. It's a curse word in my book.
On that subject, there really isn't anything fundamentally different between 2k pro and server, is there? Server just supports more RAM, right?
On that subject, there really isn't anything fundamentally different between 2k pro and server, is there? Server just supports more RAM, right?
ddrueding
Fixture
Support for more RAM and more CPUs, along with some management tools. Some software also insists on only running on "Server" OSes while others insist on not running on "Server" OSes (usually to protect a more expensive "Server" option, Acronis is one of them)
Windows 2000 server also supports and implemented the first Active Directory server and domain controller. There would be more overhead in running server 2000 vs 2000 pro.
Mercutio
Fatwah on Western Digital
Not really. They both booted on as little as 40MB RAM, it's just that a server with AD installed took longer to boot. Pretty much the same as current Desktop Windows and current Server Windows now. I can rattle off the other difference but honestly it's all ancient history.
To provide a touch of context, you need to understand that the drive in question was $400 when it was new. It's not like I was calling over a $20 POS drive, but something that I had a reasonable expectation to work for years and years since that's generally what optical drives do.
mubs
Storage? I am Storage!
Ok, granted HP Pavilions are turds. What's the feedback on HP Envy laptops? Just asking...
timwhit
Hairy Aussie
I ran Windows 2003 Server on the desktop for years before making a full switch to Linux. I found it better than the desktop OSes, but there was always software that would fail to install.
Chewy509
Wotty wot wot.
The few HP Envy's I've seen in the wild seem to be well respected by their users... But don't have anough of a sample size to make a meaningful judgement.
Mercutio
Fatwah on Western Digital
They're Gaming/Hobbyist machines, similar to Dell's XPS line. I read that as "Has a discrete GPU with a cooling system that will fail and kill the system well before the end of the laptop's useful life", but that's more of a general sentiment regarding gaming laptops than any specific observation about HP Envy models. Of course in a lot of cases the ultraportable models are being sold with vanilla Intel graphics now anyway.
CougTek
Hairy Aussie
Aussie's accent at its finest ;-)
mubs
Storage? I am Storage!
Done. Bought a Lenovo IdeaPad Z580 (Model 59-347591).
I told the dealer we wanted to check out one machine (up and running) from the Essential series (low-end), IdeaPad (mid-range) and ThinkPad (high-end). Daughter did not like the pimply track-pad on the ThinkPad. She also felt the trackpad & buttons weren't just right on the Essentials. In Goldilocks fashion, she picked the IdeaPad.
Win8-64, 3110M Core i3 3G processor @ 2.4GHz, 4GB RAM, 1TB HDD, DVD-RW, NVidia GT630M GFX video controller with 1GB dedicated RAM, 1366 x 768 display (sorry Merc, anything better was frightfully expensive), 6C/48W/3H battery, 2 x USB2, 2 x USB3, 2 years Accidental Damage Protection, 1 year on-site warranty, 1 year carry-in warranty, free Lenova backpack, free earphones.
$653 all inclusive
The dealer has to get back to me on additional warranty for a cost. I'll take it if it's worth it.
If need be, I'll add a 4GB stick of RAM later.
Updated Win8 till the cows came home, then downloaded and installed Win 8.1. All well so far. Need to install MS Office, browsers (Chrome etc.) then will be all set.
Kid likes the Win 8 interface ("I'm used to it from my friend's laptop") and didn't want anything like Classic Shell installed. I managed to actually putter my way around and find the things I wanted to do. This old dog hasn't become totally senile!
Hoping it will last the kid 5 years; that will make me happy.
Thanks everybody for your advice and help.
Now I'm left with a 250GB Samsung 840 SSD that was in the old laptop. I'll probably try to stick it into my already fast desktop as the boot drive one of these days when I have time.
I told the dealer we wanted to check out one machine (up and running) from the Essential series (low-end), IdeaPad (mid-range) and ThinkPad (high-end). Daughter did not like the pimply track-pad on the ThinkPad. She also felt the trackpad & buttons weren't just right on the Essentials. In Goldilocks fashion, she picked the IdeaPad.
Win8-64, 3110M Core i3 3G processor @ 2.4GHz, 4GB RAM, 1TB HDD, DVD-RW, NVidia GT630M GFX video controller with 1GB dedicated RAM, 1366 x 768 display (sorry Merc, anything better was frightfully expensive), 6C/48W/3H battery, 2 x USB2, 2 x USB3, 2 years Accidental Damage Protection, 1 year on-site warranty, 1 year carry-in warranty, free Lenova backpack, free earphones.
$653 all inclusive
The dealer has to get back to me on additional warranty for a cost. I'll take it if it's worth it.
If need be, I'll add a 4GB stick of RAM later.
Updated Win8 till the cows came home, then downloaded and installed Win 8.1. All well so far. Need to install MS Office, browsers (Chrome etc.) then will be all set.
Kid likes the Win 8 interface ("I'm used to it from my friend's laptop") and didn't want anything like Classic Shell installed. I managed to actually putter my way around and find the things I wanted to do. This old dog hasn't become totally senile!
Hoping it will last the kid 5 years; that will make me happy.
Thanks everybody for your advice and help.
Now I'm left with a 250GB Samsung 840 SSD that was in the old laptop. I'll probably try to stick it into my already fast desktop as the boot drive one of these days when I have time.
sedrosken
Florida Man
Why didn't you put the SSD from the old laptop into the new? Hoping she won't notice the difference? :twistd:
mubs
Storage? I am Storage!
The new one came with a 1TB HDD; what do I do with it? It also came with Win8-64; the old lappy ran Win7-64. With the old lappy, I had given her an external 2.5" HDD and asked her to store all her docs, iTunes library etc. on it. With the new lappy, she can store everything on the built-in HDD and use the external for backups. Also she's not that sensitive to speed, and the only time the SSD would have made a difference (realistically speaking) would have been the boot times. I find it a tad long on the new lappy; don't know if it's doing extensive POST. There's no obvious way to get into the BIOS; must be the new fangled UEFI type. I'll have to actually crack open the manual to see how to get in and check the BIOS settings.
I haven't yet reached the optimization stage; I haven't even partitioned the drive yet. Hoping to get some stuff done today.
I haven't yet reached the optimization stage; I haven't even partitioned the drive yet. Hoping to get some stuff done today.
sedrosken
Florida Man
I was messing with you
Yeah, those UEFI types always throw me for a loop - - DEL or F12 or F2 just don't seem to work. Maybe a key combination? Either way, all the UEFI types I've fixed didn't need BIOS fiddling to be fixed.
On the subject of UEFI, opinions on that in general? I think it's really killing the market for other operating systems. I think this guy said it best here (http://toastytech.com/evil/rants.html, scroll down to 5/31/2012). He's the guy who still maintains that Athlon XP with Windows 95, completely without IE, man does he not like IE, or Windows 8, or just Microsoft in general... but he hit the nail on the head with UEFI.
Yeah, those UEFI types always throw me for a loop - - DEL or F12 or F2 just don't seem to work. Maybe a key combination? Either way, all the UEFI types I've fixed didn't need BIOS fiddling to be fixed.
On the subject of UEFI, opinions on that in general? I think it's really killing the market for other operating systems. I think this guy said it best here (http://toastytech.com/evil/rants.html, scroll down to 5/31/2012). He's the guy who still maintains that Athlon XP with Windows 95, completely without IE, man does he not like IE, or Windows 8, or just Microsoft in general... but he hit the nail on the head with UEFI.
sedrosken
Florida Man
Jeez the editor's glitchy... I've noticed we've all been double posting more and more often recently...
Mercutio
Fatwah on Western Digital
What did your daughter do to have itunes inflicted on her? Was she torturing kittens? Getting bad grades? Was it arson? It was arson, wasn't it?
sedrosken
Florida Man
^ I lol'd.