Crap selection of laptops

[mubs]

What did your daughter do to have itunes inflicted on her? Was she torturing kittens? Getting bad grades? Was it arson? It was arson, wasn't it?

Kids are like that, Merc, you ought to know, you teach enough of them. It started by her cousins (who are much older than her and were earning on their own) gifting her an Ipod much before her teens. I refused to let her use it and it put away, forgotten, till, at the wife's insistence, it was pulled out for her to use. But she's averse to learning new stuff, and she let the kid play with it. The rest is history.

The first Ipod died, and you might remember I had posted about what to get next. The new Ipod won becuase there was already an existing library from the old one.

She's happy using it, and so long as she doesn't bother me, I'm ok with it. But her phone is an Andoird, Ice Cream Sandwich or better, don't remember.

I sometimes maker her read funny posts here on SF, and she gets a kick out of them. She'll be reading Merc's post later today

 

[sedrosken]

I never liked Apple, I was given a iPod touch for my 14th birthday and I traded it for my GTab the first chance I got. Which, by the way, I got KitKat on today... I am less than impressed. Web is loads less painfully slow (you used to be able to grab a cup of coffee, come back and it'd maybe be 50% done loading a relatively small web page, and it's not our connection either). I don't know if I was just expecting a dramatic improvement like what happened with ICS over Gingerbread, but...

I put Windows 7 back on the laptop. It's not that I don't like Mint, really, I do, it's that I have required programs that will not run in WINE and my laptop doesn't have the horses to run a VM with anything newer than XP running in it reliably.

Gonna see if I can find an x86 Windows 7 driver for my i865 chipset and see how putting 7 on the GX270 might go. If I'm having issues with Linux... Well, while I'm at formatting my HDD, I might as well go ahead and upgrade. The consistent UI would be a nice break for my sanity.

 

[Mercutio]

As a general rule, major-revision software upgrades on older devices are usually going to result in some sluggishness. The new software is almost always going to be built on a set of performance assumptions that aren't going to hold for older hardware, such as more CPU cores or available RAM. In the whole history of time, I think Windows 7 to Windows 8 is the ONLY time I've seen a global performance improvement from a major software update.

 

[timwhit]

As a general rule, major-revision software upgrades on older devices are usually going to result in some sluggishness. The new software is almost always going to be built on a set of performance assumptions that aren't going to hold for older hardware, such as more CPU cores or available RAM. In the whole history of time, I think Windows 7 to Windows 8 is the ONLY time I've seen a global performance improvement from a major software update.

The HotSpot JVM has gotten progressively faster with each release.

 

[Chewy509]

This is more about getting some opinions on support for laptops, and not laptop's per se.

My boss, has a 3 yr old Lenovo X201 that the wireless card just died on Monday (7 days before the warranty ran out). The laptop was purchased with 3yr next business day onsite warranty.

Calls up Lenovo (on Tuesday morning) to get the wireless card replaced, after finding his copy of the original invoice to confirm dates. (The laptop was purchased direct from Lenovo). The support rep tells him the laptop is no longer covered under warranty as the order date was over 3yrs, (but the invoice date and shipment date is next Monday), and that they can't help... My boss informs them of the invoice and shipment date and reminds them that warranty starts on the invoice/shipment date (and you can actually argue that the warranty only starts when you actually take delivery of something as well, which was 2 weeks after the invoice date, as my boss has the delivery slip from the courier). The support rep reluctantly speaks to his supervisor after being reminded of Australian Consumer Law, and a technician is booked to come out yesterday (Thursday - yep the day after they are meant to come in accordance with the warranty agreement). My boss is informed the onsite tech will call before hand to confirm the exact time, and will be out no later than 2pm (Thursday).. Nothing happens yesterday, so my boss calls Lenovo support back this morning (Friday) to inquire what happened with the tech. Apparently all technicians were over booked on Wed/Thurs, and they will be out today (no later than Friday afternoon).

My boss gets a message at 10am from the onsite technician to call him back (my boss was his mobile on another call, when the tech called his mobile). Boss tries calling back, but the phone rings out. Keeps trying every 30min or so, leaving messages each time. Gets a call back from the onsite tech at 3pm, saying he has finished for the day and hopefully will be out sometime next week! So, understanding these onsite techs are sub-contractors, my boss calls Lenovo support back to let them know what's going on, and what they are going to do about it... Basically, they can't do anything about the onsite support techs (since they are sub-contractors), and my boss will just have to wait. Understandably, that's not really good enough, he asks for the support reps supervisor, and the support rep hung up on him!

So, is this an isolated incident with how Lenovo supports their customers, or have they become just as bad as the other big brands? Now from what I was told, the customer support reps he spoke to were not in Australia, as the support rep asked how close we were to Sydney CBD (the office is in Brisbane CBD), and they got the local time wrong (out by 3 hours). My boss suspects he was speaking to India due to the accents, but one never knows... (They certainly were not in Australia).

Incidentally, my boss, knowing his X201 is 3yrs old has started looking at a new replacement laptop and will be buying something shortly... The only requirements: i5/i7 class CPU, 12-13" screen, 16GB RAM, and either a CardExpress slot or Thunderbolt port. (The cardExpress or Thunderbolt is needed to allow fireware and eSATA connectivity when onsite, and for other possible expansion - we already have the adapters for both, so either is fine). Basically, the only options we can find are the HP EliteBook 2570p, or the Apple MacBook Pro (13" Retina model). Kinder sucky?

 

[Chewy509]

PS. My boss is leaning towards the MacBook Pro, he personally has other Apple products at home, and most of the software we use is cross platform (Win/Mac/Linux).

 

[CougTek]

The support we get here from HP on business products is excellent, regarding the warranty replacement at least (can't say the same for on site installation/configuration of 3PAR SAN). But HP being good here doesn't mean HP being good in your hot southern inferno. Other Aussies could provide a more accurate picture of how things are down there. I doubt Apple's support is good in Australia, as they sell most of their computer products in the United States (or at least that was the case last time I've checked).

 

[Mercutio]

Lenovo sent someone to pick up my T420 (with the cracked palmrest) at quarter to 7 Tuesday night, at the place I specified. It was overnighted to a repair depot 500 miles away and returned to me 8:30 Thursday morning. I spoke to a single Lenovo support rep after a hold time of less than 10 seconds. The Depot Tech called me and told me exactly what she found and was going to do (replace the chassis parts and also my keyboard, power/volume buttons and joynipple because of wear) and to ask why the laptop was configured to boot from a drive that wasn't in the machine. When I got the machine back, there was a note explaining exactly what had been done.

No, that's not on-site service, but that's on par with what I expect. I'm not on any special service plan other than accidental damage coverage.

 

[Will Rickards]

Well lenovo service is probably vastly different between US and Australia

 

[CityK]

Well lenovo service is probably vastly different between US and Australia

I suspect this is indeed the case -- that outside the US, its not necessarily pleasant and/or easy experience. I got dragged into helping someone out with a Lenovo claim (which more or less had transformed itself into a difference of opinion between what the Lenovo reps thought they (Lenovo as a company) should be responsible for and what warranty coverage actually stipulated it provided). In the end, things worked out, but it was a completely unnecessary waste of time and energy, and an overall frustrating experience that does not endure a person to do repeat business with them in the future.

 

[ddrueding]

Stoked about my new W530 with "3k" display: 15.5" IPS 2880x1620 (16x9)

 

[mubs]

Link?

 

[ddrueding]

Sorry, it is a W540. Fairly maxed for ~$3.5k.

 

[ddrueding]

My new W540 finally shipped. I've never had an order delayed so long. Sold my T-series nearly a month ago. The X-series is sub optimal for long stretches of actual work.

 

[ddrueding]

Typing on the W540 for the first time, and if anything could make the case for a $3k+ laptop in this world of tablets and cellphones, this is it. The screen is a revelation; 2880x1620 and beautiful, amazing colors and uniformity. The Pantone/X-Rite color calibrator works perfectly. The RAID-0 of SSDs is wicked-fast. The Quadro K2100M is responsible for the lowest performance score of the unit (6.9) while the SSDs manage 8.1 and the rest are 7.9.

Biggest letdown is the touchpad; I don't know why Lenovo thought that making the entire touchpad "click" was a good idea, but I hate it. Biggest win is the screen; I may actually like it more than the Dell 30".

 

[CougTek]

Reading your stories about your computers is like watching an episode from "The rich and famous".

 

[ddrueding]

It is interesting. In the past I've always steered my creative clients (photo, video, animation, CAD) away from laptops. This might be the first laptop capable of running with the workstations in these applications. I only spec'd it with 16GB of RAM, but I think it could do quite a bit. I suspect I'll be selling it in the next few months.

 

[ddrueding]

Reading your stories about your computers is like watching an episode from "The rich and famous".

I suppose it needs to be like that to some extent, as my clients are mostly rich, and that is the direction I want to grow my business. There may be another way to get this business besides possessing and demonstrating stuff that they didn't know they needed, but I don't know it.

 

[mubs]

Typing on the W540 for the first time, and if anything could make the case for a $3k+ laptop in this world of tablets and cellphones, this is it. The screen is a revelation; 2880x1620 and beautiful, amazing colors and uniformity. The Pantone/X-Rite color calibrator works perfectly. The RAID-0 of SSDs is wicked-fast. The Quadro K2100M is responsible for the lowest performance score of the unit (6.9) while the SSDs manage 8.1 and the rest are 7.9.

It is interesting. In the past I've always steered my creative clients (photo, video, animation, CAD) away from laptops. This might be the first laptop capable of running with the workstations in these applications. I only spec'd it with 16GB of RAM, but I think it could do quite a bit.

I've never considered laptops before for these reasons. Looks like when my current desktop (about 15 months old) is due for replacement I'll have to take a good hard look at at whatever laptop is available then that is as good or better. The price would be the main deterrent, and the shorter life compared to a desktop.

Biggest letdown is the touchpad; I don't know why Lenovo thought that making the entire touchpad "click" was a good idea, but I hate it.

No way to turn it off in the touchpad software?

Biggest win is the screen; I may actually like it more than the Dell 30".

Wow, that's saying something!

I suspect I'll be selling it in the next few months.

Why, if it's so good?

 

[Stereodude]

No way to turn it off in the touchpad software?

Then how do you click? Doesn't it not have any buttons?

 

[ddrueding]

Then how do you click? Doesn't it not have any buttons?

The entire touchpad moves down ~1.5mm when you apply pressure. If this is in the bottom right corner of the pad it is a right click. Anywhere else and it is a left click. Even if I disabled it in software the stupid thing would still move on me. I've switched to the joy nipple for times when I don't have a mouse.

 

[ddrueding]

Why, if it's so good?

If a product is a particularly good idea or a good value but difficult to get a hold of, I'll typically sell mine to the customer and wait for the replacement myself.

 

[thomas20]

A gadget you really enjoy is worth buying.

 

[LunarMist]

No shit?

 

[sedrosken]

Sherlock!

 

[Chewy509]

Oh so elementary...

 

[mubs]

Now, now, guys, calm down...

 

[snowhiker]

<face palm>

Now my sister-in-law needs a laptop as her old one is 10 years old. She will be using it for work. She asked me about the Toshiba Satellite S75 Laptop. I told her it was probably crap and that she should look at Lenovo or maybe a BUSINESS CLASS laptop from Dell/HP.

So she sends me this link for the Lenovo Z710. Spec wise it's very nice but I'm thinking a "lower" spec'd machine from a better line would be the way to go.

PLEASE any suggestions for around the same price or maybe a bit more? Extended warranty? etc?

MUCH THANKS IN ADVANCE.

 

[LunarMist]

If a user typically keeps a laptop for many years, it might be better to buy a good one.

 

[CougTek]

Take a look at the Yoga 2 Pro. It's much smaller and therefore portable (would probably fit in her purse). It's reasonably fast and has a nice display. I think it can also come with 8GB of RAM. The small Asus Ultrabook with FulHD screens are also worth a look.

 

[sechs]

I need to spec out a laptop for a college student. Normally, I just pick out a nice midddle-to-high end Thinkpad, but, while I wasn't looking, Lenovo fragmented the crap out of their lines.

What models should I be looking at now to last four years of university life?

 

[Mercutio]

I'd probably look at a Thinkpad T440s as a good general-purpose option. The S-series are supposed to have nicer screens, and they're lighter than the regular T-series. The only problem the regular T-series has is the lack of a 1920x1080 screen option, but that's enough to make me not consider such a thing.

 

[time]

Four years of daily use is a big ask for any laptop, let alone a student's laptop. I'll predict now that they will upgrade before 4 years is up.

If they have the money, I'd go for the T-series (although if you option up the display, you could just as easily get an X1 Carbon).

Back in the real world where students aren't always rich, I'd strongly recommend a ThinkPad L-series, eg L440. The most obvious difference is that they are not as light, but otherwise they are 'milspec' tough. We have had (and still have) 2, and I can vouch that they are hard to kill.

If budget is really tight, the ThinkPad Edge series is tailor-made (we have one of those too). But I agree with Mercutio's assessment that they barely qualify as ThinkPads. So good value: yes, but four years: unlikely.

 

[sechs]

I'd probably look at a Thinkpad T440s as a good general-purpose option. The S-series are supposed to have nicer screens, and they're lighter than the regular T-series. The only problem the regular T-series has is the lack of a 1920x1080 screen option, but that's enough to make me not consider such a thing.

Based on my poking around, T-series would be my choice, but I think that it's going to be well out of budget once we throw in the bells and whistles we want.

The S-series are Ideapads. Not very customizable, and I'm afraid not reliable enough. Do you have experience with them?

 

[sechs]

Back in the real world where students aren't always rich, I'd strongly recommend a ThinkPad L-series, eg L440. The most obvious difference is that they are not as light, but otherwise they are 'milspec' tough. We have had (and still have) 2, and I can vouch that they are hard to kill.

If budget is really tight, the ThinkPad Edge series is tailor-made (we have one of those too). But I agree with Mercutio's assessment that they barely qualify as ThinkPads. So good value: yes, but four years: unlikely.

The price difference between the L and E series looks to be small enough that I'd be able to get them to go with the L.

Any word on the X-series?

 

[ddrueding]

The S-series are Ideapads. Not very customizable, and I'm afraid not reliable enough. Do you have experience with them?

I believe Merc meant the Txxxs (s at the end, a subcategory of T-series).

 

[sechs]

That makes infinitely more sense. Way, way out of the budget, however.

 

[Mercutio]

The Ls are fucking tanks, the way the Rs used to be.
On the other hand, any random tablet with an Office 365 subscription plus One Note or Evernote is probably doing anything anyone outside a technical field actually needs for their studies and I do think they're credible at this point.

Also, and I know this isn't going to be a popular opinion, this is exactly what the non-Pro Surface tablets are MADE for. One of my friends is borrowing my Surface2 until the end of her semester and she's in lust with it in a way that frankly shocked the hell out of me.

 

[sechs]

Looks like we're going with a basic L440. Splurging for Windows 7.

 

[LunarMist]

Looks like we're going with a basic L440. Splurging for Windows 7.

Is Win 7 an extra cost over 8?