Dead AMD 3200+, Dead ram, and possibly Power supply

[Santilli]

Well, got the 3200+, now 3800+ up and running. CPU cost 25 bucks,
PS cost 80, Seasonic 520, and the motherboard is good.

Waiting for drivers to download, and, I should have the HTPC up and running.

As close as I can tell, the constant gaming by the Menendez twins fried the cpu, taking some memory with it.

Originally this was designed to be a quiet, teachers computer, not a full on gaming rig.

My stupid for trying to be nice.

Waiting for drivers, but, the rig will get the OCZ Vertex turbo for a boot drive, which, when combined with enough ram, and XP Pro, should make this thing awesome for HTPC.

 

[Stereodude]

Waiting for drivers, but, the rig will get the OCZ Vertex turbo for a boot drive, which, when combined with enough ram, and XP Pro, should make this thing awesome for HTPC.

Unless you want to play blu-ray discs... :rambo:

 

[LunarMist]

Gaming should not destroy RAM unless the system is improperly configured.

 

[Stereodude]

I guess it wasn't adequately cooled?

 

[time]

I did a quick search through Greg's posts, but that just increased my confusion.

Apart from the flaky CPU, it's not clear that anything else failed. Perhaps the RAM was incompatible with the new motherboard, or it was cheap enough to replace anyway?

I'd agree with Stereodude - transposed to the CPU - it sounds like it wasn't cooled properly. Perhaps there was thermal pad damage or thermal compound failure?

If Greg had to replace the PSU, that might account for damage to everything else ...

 

[Santilli]

To clarify:

I ordered a new power supply, and, the old is probably bad. From what I can gather, you can have a PS that will start up a motherboard, but be out of the proper voltage range. Only way to check is with a meter I don't have.

So, with the new power supply attached to the old motherboard, I put in the 9600GT, and proceeded to attempt to boot it. I started with one memory stick, Patriot, and it booted.
Tried two, no joy. Tried all different slot configurations, no joy with two sticks. Failed memtest at 5-7% on a consistent basis.

As for the CPU configuration. Again, this was originally configured to be a quiet, office computer. The Scythe cooler did not have a fan, and, I'm not convinced it was not up to the rigors of 24 hours of hard gaming. Also, one of the kids hit the front of the computer with his knee, while the other was playing, and,shut it down in the middle of the game play, perhaps hitting two buttons at the same time. Didn't help matters.

The Antec 160 case has two, 120MM fans, and, IIRC, I had them turned down for noise, and, they probably should have been at full blast for gaming.

So, what I have so far is it runs with one Gig of Patriot ram, but not with both of them. I'm RMAing the other, and, since I have a newegg GC for their holding on to my PS for so long, I'm using that to buy the same timing, 3-3-3-8 Corsair ram.

I've got everything up and running, though I haven't checked if the removeable Antec SATA drive is working. If it is, then I can run Bluray movies on the machine using HTPC Media Classic Player, and VLC.

Need to install the Explosion card as well. Also, my external Plextor Bluray player can be moved into the living room. Next question is if I want to use wireless to connect to the net.

I ended up with two working cpus, and one bad one. Currently it has the 3800+ in it.

Probably should have spent 60 bucks and got a dual core. Still, didn't know if the thing was going to work at all...

 

[LunarMist]

So the CPU heat sink had no fan whatsoever? Yeah, that could do some damage.

 

[Santilli]

It was one of these:

http://www.scythe-usa.com/product/cpu/001/index.html

The giveaway is that almost all their new coolers have fans.'

"CPU Clock Speed Limit:
This product is not recommended to use with a high CPU frequency under the fanless mode. If you plan to use this item under fanless mode, your CPU load should be limited to low-middle loading. For high-end usage, we recommend to use an optional 120mm fan. Please use this product at your own risk."

It was fine for normal use. Gaming 24/7? I don't think so.

 

[Santilli]

While expensive, I think these are the best heat sinks I've ever worked with:

http://www.swiftech.com/mcx-vpro.aspx

They cool so well I can use Stealth Vantec fans on them, and they still keep the Xeons cool. Going on 12 years now...

This looks like an excellent product, at an excellent price:

http://www.swiftech.com/polaris120heatsink.aspx#tab3

The current one is wearing a cheap imitation of the above, with a 92mm fan.

 

[LunarMist]

You cannot really judge a heatsink by appearance. There a so many similar 120mm tower types that it is mind boggling. I sure would not a CPU without any fan at all. Even a very slow one is much better than nothing.

 

[Santilli]

Have the HTPC up and running. Explosion card is pretty incredible through the amp and speakers.

Running only one ram stick, and, this seems to REALLY slow the system down. Kind of funny when the video card has twice the VRAM of the system....

Also, the vintage DVD IDE player isn't exactly blinding, either...

Have removeable drives in SATA working, as long as the drive is under 1 gig. 1.5's and larger don't seem to be recognized.

Also, mounting images and playing isn't going well....

 

[Mercutio]

Today's punctuation lesson: Comma usage courtesy of Purdue's Online Writing Lab.

I will acknowledge that I'm occasionally guilty of this one myself but I'm not the person in this thread with a JD, either.

 

[Santilli]

Hmmm. Odd, but I thought we had different standards for writing here, vs., oh, say
editing an article for law review.

Oh, I did that?

 

[CougTek]

Woody Nitpicker strikes again!

 

[Santilli]

I am wondering if it's worth going to the X2 processors. They are around for 50-75 dollars, and, would double the speed of the HTPC.

 

[Stereodude]

Single core --> dual core doesn't exactly mean double the speed.

 

[Chewy509]

Single core --> dual core doesn't exactly mean double the speed.

Very true, but it does make for a much more responsive system.

 

[Santilli]

The 3800 does go to 100% CPU usage a bit more then I would like.
I'm still waiting for the additional ram to come in.

 

[LunarMist]

How will more RAM decrease the CPU load? Why not build a new system for the intended purpose?

 

[Santilli]

I've thought about that. The HTPC plays bluray stuff, plays sound very well, and, plays old games that my newer systems don't seem to like.

If I decided to build a new system, I'd like something MUCH faster, that would then likely require a new OS.

I'd loose my old game play stuff.

I'd also be looking at at least 500 dollars, and throwing out a bunch of spare parts.

A new box would look something like this:
Intel BOXDH55PJ LGA 1156 Intel H55 90.
Intel Core i3-540 Clarkdale 3.06GHz 110.
Crucial 8GB 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1333 60.
OCZ Agility 2 OCZSSD2-2AGTE60G 2.5" 60GB 100.
Antec New Solution VSK2450 Black ATX Mid Tower 450W use the existing tower
SAMSUNG CD/DVD Burner 20.
Windows 7 Pro 140.00

Core components are 350.00 dollars.

Right now I have a rig that works, and, a cpu that would double performance for around 80.00.

I might be able to sell the other cpus for about 25 each, giving me a net cost of 30 dollars to double the speed of the computer.

Some of the new intel processors are too fast to be believed. The The i7 and i5 2600k in particular are priced right, and incredibly fast. When I do upgrade, it will be to something like that, not something that is a 1/3 the price, and 1/3 the speed, like the i5 540.

Also, I wonder if they even have drivers for my sound card, and a few other of my components, for a 64 bit OS.

 

[Santilli]

The plot thickens. The corsair ram came in today. Just got done testing it. It works, but, the motherboard will not support DDR ram. In short, it will take one stick of ram, pretty much in any slot, but, will not work with two sticks of ram.

I tested all three ram sticks in slot one, and, they all boot the computer and work.

So, what to do now?

Send the ram back?

 

[LunarMist]

Are there any limitations on chip density and max capacity?

 

[Santilli]

Memory

Number of Memory Slots
4×184pin

Memory Standard
DDR 400

Maximum Memory Supported
4GB

Channel Supported
Dual Channel

 

[time]

With a stick in the first slot, did you try a second in all of the remaining 3 slots?

There's a risk when buying new RAM for old motherboards/CPUs; there are lots of different configurations and timings that aren't revealed on retail price lists.

There's also a risk when working with older gear, full stop. This is why we are in awe of Tazwegion, who doesn't seem to mind spending hours or even days resurrecting ancient hardware.

 

[LunarMist]

With a stick in the first slot, did you try a second in all of the remaining 3 slots?

There's a risk when buying new RAM for old motherboards/CPUs; there are lots of different configurations and timings that aren't revealed on retail price lists.

There's also a risk when working with older gear, full stop.

Exactly, but we all know how stubborn Greg is.

 

[Santilli]

With a stick in the first slot, did you try a second in all of the remaining 3 slots?

There's a risk when buying new RAM for old motherboards/CPUs; there are lots of different configurations and timings that aren't revealed on retail price lists.

There's also a risk when working with older gear, full stop. This is why we are in awe of Tazwegion, who doesn't seem to mind spending hours or even days resurrecting ancient hardware.

Yes, no joy.

It might be it's better with slower ram. Don't know...

 

[Santilli]

The timing on the new ram is the same as the old, hoping to go for 4 gigs of ram, after the RMA from Patriot.

 

[time]

Did you check the Corsair compatibility lists to see if your motherboard qualified?

If not, you're just wasting everyone's time, especially your suppliers'.

 

[Chewy509]

With Clawhammer (and Sledgehammer) CPUs, the IMC (integrated memory controller) is limited to handling 6 ranks of RAM irrespective of the speed or number of DIMM slots. So you could use 1 quad rank DIMM + 1 dual rank DIMM, or 3 dual rank DIMMS + 1 single rank DIMM or 4 single rank DIMMs, or combinations thereof, as long as you didn't exceed 6 ranks total for the CPU.

If you purchased quad rank RAM, (which is often the case with some newer 1 GB DIMMs or most often the case with 2GB+ DDR400 DIMMS), you can only use 1 stick of RAM. If you want to populate all 4 DIMM slots you'll need to try and find single rank DIMMs which are very rare for anything above 1GB in size for DDR400. Otherwise you could use dual rank DIMMs, but then would be limited to 2 slots only.

FYI - Clawhammer - Original single core Athlon64s
Sledgehammer - Original single core Opterons.

I could dig up the AMD technical manual that details all this (it's in the BIOS programmers guide for AMD Opteron - first edn), but my take some time and Google-fu to get to the right manual.

PS. I don't know how Corsair do they RAM model numbering, but with Kingston Sitcks, in the code there will be S, D or Q in the model after the speed, and this denotes Single Rank, Dual Rank or Quad Rank. for example in my old Opteron box, I had: KVR333S4R3A/512M. The S after the speed indicates Single Rank, and I could populate all 4 DIMM slots for each CPU.

 

[Santilli]

Did you check the Corsair compatibility lists to see if your motherboard qualified?

If not, you're just wasting everyone's time, especially your suppliers'.

Try their 'list' and see what you come up with...

 

[time]

I don't know which motherboard you have.

 

[Handruin]

How will more RAM decrease the CPU load? Why not build a new system for the intended purpose?

It won't. It will only help I/O performance which is constrained by swap usage.

 

[ddrueding]

Did you check the Corsair compatibility lists to see if your motherboard qualified?

If not, you're just wasting everyone's time, especially your suppliers'.

You're joking, right? Memory compatibility lists on non-server hardware have been spotty for years. RAM is RAM (or should be). If the speed/voltage/type of RAM is supported by the motherboard, it should work.

 

[CougTek]

Anyone else read Chewy's post, because it's probably the reason why Greg can't use all his sticks. And I'm with Time regarding wasting the supplier's time. As a seller myself, I sympatise. To confirm that it's the motherboard/CPU's fault, ask your supplier to try the RAM on another motherboard. He has more chances to have an old board ying around than you. I bet the RAM will work fine.

BTW, it cost your supplier money to ship (non)defective RAM sticks (shipping). Think about it before you bring them back.

 

[Santilli]

GA K8N Pro Sli F7.

If Chewy is right, and I have little doubt that he is, this becomes a bit more complicated then just matching the ram package that ran fine in the machine for nearly 6 years.

 

[Santilli]

The recommended Kingston memory is running at 1.8v. The Ram I've been using for 6 years, and, the Corsair is at 2.5 v. The bios only allows a .01 and .02 increase in voltage.

The manual, etc. list "Normal" as the stock voltage but, don't tell you what "Normal" is.

Neither does the manual.

 

[Santilli]

It gets better. When I use the Kingston wizard, it recommends ram that runs at 2.6v??!!

So, Chewy's reference goes to ram that runs at 1.8V, using his numbering sequence, and, is available for 33.00 for 2 gigs.

The Kingston Wizard recommends memory running at 2.6v, and costs 105.00.

 

[CougTek]

2.5V is the normal DDR1 voltage.
1.8V is the normal DDR2 voltage.
Confusion is Gregory's normal state.

 

[Santilli]

Rude, but thank you. That explains a bit. Odd that's it's not my confusion, since Kingston lists the 2.6v for a dual channel kit, intended for the GA K8N Pro. I guess they know it's not going to work as dual channel?

 

[Mercutio]

It gets better. When I use the Kingston wizard, it recommends ram that runs at 2.6v??!!

My longstanding stance is that I will not purchase RAM that doesn't operate at JEDEC specified voltages. That RAM is defective, even if the manufacturer claims that it's +eleventybillion% faster than RAM that's actually in spec.

, and,

Goddammitsofuckingmuch.