Dead AMD 3200+, Dead ram, and possibly Power supply

[Santilli]

It plays Quake 4 with a gig of ram fine, at Ultra High settings. Suspect the 2 gigs of vram help with that.

Doesn't seem to max out the cpu, much, either.

 

[CougTek]

I really need to find a video of some desperate running and jumping from a cliff right now.

Sell the system on fleabay and you'll have half the money to buy new parts to build a decent HTPC. One consuming way less power and operating much quietly too.

 

[time]

Greg, I thought you said you replaced the motherboard with a $60 Asus model?

Are you using the original CPU that you had suspicions about, or the replacement one that you got from somewhere?

The Gigabyte board that you've listed comes up fine in the compatibility databases of both Corsair and Kingston. All the Corsair modules at NewEgg are on the list, and most of the Kingston ones. I don't know where you came up with prices you did; I saw Corsair 1GB for $29 and 2x1GB for $53.

Regarding Chewy's point, the Kingston data sheets say quad-bank for every module on their compatibility list. So I don't believe that's an issue here, AFAICS everything is above board and you're back to looking at the motherboard and CPU.

Looking at the motherboard manual, I see it is VERY fussy about DIMM combinations. You can only have a single DIMM if it's in either slot 1 or slot 3. Otherwise, DIMMs must be in pairs, and in slots of the same color.

In other words, there are only 5 possible RAM combinations:

Slot 1 alone
Slot 3 alone
Slot 1 + Slot 2
Slot 3 + Slot 4
Slot 1 + Slot 2 + Slot 3 + Slot 4

I suggest you try 2 modules in Slot 3 and Slot 4, to check the possibility that Slot 2 is bad and may be affecting all your attempts to populate the board.

 

[Chewy509]

It gets better. When I use the Kingston wizard, it recommends ram that runs at 2.6v??!!

So, Chewy's reference goes to ram that runs at 1.8V, using his numbering sequence, and, is available for 33.00 for 2 gigs.

The Kingston Wizard recommends memory running at 2.6v, and costs 105.00.

I don't know where you got the 1.8v from, as the datasheet I found links it as 2.6V Reg ECC DDR400 Single Rank. :frowner:

The problem is Kingston recently changed their naming scheme and removed all references to the number of ranks on the DIMM. (X64 is Registered, and X72 is Registered ECC). Even some of the datasheets no longer list the number of ranks!

But from memory, the IMC on the Athlon64 could only use 8x 64Mbit chips per DIMM in single rank configuration, If you use 128Mbit or 256Mbit chips you had to increase the number of ranks accordingly. Most 1GB DIMMs it would appear are being built as dual-rank parts so they can use the cheaper 128Mbit chips. But if the corsair stuff is dual rank, it should run at least 2 DIMMs successfully...

Maybe something in the BIOS is working correctly.

(My disclaimer, most of the AMD DDR333/DDR400 stuff I dealt with in the past was the Reg ECC flavour for Opteron based systems, which in all cases was very easy to find out the exact DIMM needed as many Opteron based systems were very picky about RAM. As Merc said, and this is especially for Opterons's, if it's not JEDEC standard configuration, all bets are off).

 

[Santilli]

1 and 3 work with single stick. No dual combinations work, with the Corsair ram.

I bought two used cpu's, for cheap. Both work. They are the 3200+ David currently had in the Asus motherboard, and, the 3800+ that is running fine on the GA K8N Pro Sli, in the other room.

David has the Asus, power supply, and 3200 cpu. He thinks the asus is bad. The cpu 3200+ worked fine in the Gigabyte motherboard. I sent that along in the Asus for David to test. The power supply I sent also appears to be good.

These observations would be the same I had with the Asus, that worked briefly, then failed to boot. I did manage to get it up and running well, for enough time to load the OS, and install some software before it went south.

So, I have a working 500 Watt Seasonic, in David's care, and a working 520 Watt Seasonic, in the HTPC.

The GA K8N might be bad, but, I sort of wonder why it would work with one DIMM in the one and three slots, but not when two are installed?

I now have Patriot replacement ram coming 2 gigs, new.
I also have two 1GiG modules, one of which is working in the HTPC.
The video card is fine, and, the 2Gigs of memory on the card is showing well with heavy texture stuff like Quake 4, with the lack of memory made up for by the Vertex Turbo
boot drive.

The 3800+ works well, and, the Auzentech sound card is awesome. Also, the 27" monitor is fine for games, and most movies.

I'm supposed to ebay a working system because the DDR ram that doesn't seem vital, doesn't work?

Time: Can you link me to the Kingston stuff? I also ordered, on Chewy's recommendation, 2 gigs of ram for 30 bucks, that is consistent with the system he
described for ram configuration. The dual configuration was inexpensive, and, at this point, I'd be delighted to have two gigs of working ram.

Right now I'm thinking more along the lines of a 40-50 inch TV for a monitor.

 

[time]

Kingston compatibility list

Kingston 1GB DDR at NewEgg (they don't have any compatible 2x1GB kits)

I don't know what the first one on the NewEgg list actually is (KVR400/1GR). Assuming it really is KVR series, I guess it might be a Retail package version of the KVR400X64C3A/1G.

 

[Santilli]

per Chewy's writing, ordered this:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820134181

 

[Chewy509]

per Chewy's writing, ordered this:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820134181

Umm, that's DDR2 RAM? Not DDR 1 RAM (which is what you need).

Time linked to the correct RAM... (But you can only use 2 of those sticks as they are dual rank DIMMs, so using more than 3 sticks of it, will take you over the 6 rank limit).

PS. On Kingston's website - here is a reference to the 6 rank limit for Opteron based systems - the same which applies to original Athlon64's as well...
http://www.ec.kingston.com/ecom/con...nder+K8W+(S2885)&distributor=0&submit1=Search

Now why this only comes up in Opteron related literature, is that it wasn't expected original Athlon64's to be fitted with more than 2GB of RAM... (but as we know hindsight is a wonderful thing). Dual and Quad Opterons however it was expected that you would see 8GB per CPU configurations.

 

[Chewy509]

And here is how to decipher Kingston's current model numbering scheme...

http://www.valueram.com/desktop/memory.asp

What I described was their old numbering scheme for DDR. Looks like they changed it recently... Apologies for the confusion

 

[Santilli]

From your post, it's the only ram that would give 2 gigs, and, fit your posts notations.

Thanks for the link, but, if this doesn't work, I'm living with 1 gig of ram in this HTPC.

It seems enough for what I'm trying to do with it.

 

[time]

For completeness, a short PDF from Kingston that explains memory ranks.

 

[Santilli]

Anyone care to explain why the Kingston ram has the slot cut in a different point?
It won't even go into the motherboard.

 

[LunarMist]

How can it be anything else than the wrong kind of RAM? Do you have photos of the two kinds of RAM?

 

[ddrueding]

1. Different kind of RAM
2. Backwards

Those are the only reasons.

 

[sdbardwick]

Anyone care to explain why the Kingston ram has the slot cut in a different point?
It won't even go into the motherboard.

See post #48.

 

[Santilli]

Chewy said:
"PS. I don't know how Corsair do they RAM model numbering, but with Kingston Sitcks, in the code there will be S, D or Q in the model after the speed, and this denotes Single Rank, Dual Rank or Quad Rank. for example in my old Opteron box, I had: KVR333S4R3A/512M. The S after the speed indicates Single Rank, and I could populate all 4 DIMM slots for each CPU.

So, I bought KVR400D2N3K2/26 thinking the old numbering scheme would work. However, I didn't see the disclaimer about the stuff he was using being registered ecc.

The only newegg listed ram kit is for a one gig kit for 47.00.

The 2 gig kit from Kingston is 106.00:
http://shop.kingston.com/basket.aspx

So, looks like we will be running with one gig of ram, and no kit of 2.

__________________

 

[CougTek]

KVR400D2N3K2/26 : Kingston Value RAM 400MHz DDR2 N3 (timing : 3 cycles) Kit of 2.

Normally, the last number is the size of the kit or stick in either MB of GB. 26, I don't know what it is.

 

[CougTek]

So to resume, you're the proud owner of a slow-as-shit DDR2 stick of RAM that doesn't fit your motherboard and have close to no resale value because it is about the slowest kind of DDR2 RAM ever produced.

 

[LunarMist]

So to resume, you're the proud owner of a slow-as-shit DDR2 stick of RAM that doesn't fit your motherboard and have close to no resale value because it is about the slowest kind of DDR2 RAM ever produced.

That about sums it up. DDR2 is so different than DDR it should have been easy to see the difference.

 

[Santilli]

To be more percise:
Newegg wants 5 bucks to restock the ram, even though it cost 32.00.

Plus shipping, probably better to ebay it.

And I am the proud owner of 4 gigs of Corsair and Patriot ram, lifetime warranty, same timing, that I can only use one gig at a time, in addition to this
2 gig memory kit.;-)

 

[time]

Now that you've gone ahead anyway, please reread CougTek's advice.

 

[CougTek]

To be more percise:
Newegg wants 5 bucks to restock the ram, even though it cost 32.00.

Plus shipping, probably better to ebay it.

eBay is a no go because no one will buy a DDR2 stick slower than an average DDR stick of a previous generation. That's why I wrote it has no resale value. If Newegg will take it back and only punish you for 5$+ shipping, take the offer. You won't get a better deal by keeping it.

AND GET RID OF THAT PIECE OF VINTAGE CRAP! Seriously. For it to be worth it with the amount of time you've put into it, you're hourly rate must be pretty cheap for a lawyer. Soon I'll believe that you pay your customers to visit you. Just the time you've spent writing the posts in this thread is too much time given to that pile of junk.

 

[Santilli]

I guess you miss the importance of some of this vintage crap;-)
I have two perfectly good laser printers that currently only connect by the old type cables. I'm sorry, but I don't throw away working Laser printers with good cartridges.

The 4000N is currently connected to the server, since it's the only way to get data to it, thanks to I'm pretty sure, a JetDirect card being dead.
Replacing that with a 615N, and hoping I can get it back on the network.

The old poj also has a port, and, works well with the Xerox 130.

But, looking back at it, this hasn't been one of my better moments.

Ram 95 dollars
PS, though this is useable in a new box
95.00
Junk ASUS board
60 dollars
cpu cooler 15 dollars.

So, it's been about 170 bucks to get it to work.

Oh, and 20 dollars in shipping stuff.

The good news is it's working well, except for AOL software, which was causing random freezes.

It's given me a place to put the Vertex Turbo for a boot drive, and, it's not slow.

Currently cleaning off the data from the velociraptor, and, I'm going
to use Acronis to backup the system image to the velociraptor.

Never did get a solution to Merc's problem with the new motherboards not supporting the old serial cable formats.
Any ideas?

I've looked at some of the converters, but, drivers are a problem, and, they are around 40-50 dollars.

 

[Chewy509]

This is my 2cents - either:
1, buy a new jetdirect adapter (or similar) : HP 300x are cheapish on eBay. And the DLink DP301P+ work ok as well as long as you stick to RAW 9100 TCP connection method (avoid the NetBEUI connection method). (These are $50 ea). With the DLink DP301P+ in RAW 9100 mode, you need NO additional drivers (except for the actual printer driver), everything from WinNT4 has built-in TCP/IP printing based on the 9100 port standard. (IIRC, the RAW 9100 option is the default for HP JetDirect cards as well).

2, Buy a PCIe or PCI to parallel port adapter and put it in a NEW box. The PCI to parallel adapters based on the MOSCHIP 9865 chipset work well (there are few on newegg for $12 ea), just get the latest driver from MOSCHIP first - http://moschip.com/mcs9865_downloads.php

 

[Santilli]

Chewy: Bought a 615N. That works, though it was about a 10 dollar waste over the 610N, maybe. Appears to be the same card, but with more memory. It works.

Hooked up both computers and the printer on my cheap little switch, and it's fine, except one of the cards doesn't seem to like to get an IP address.
It works for the Beast, and the printer is wired using the serial port on the server.

I'm not springing for a new box, yet. I'll have a spare pci slot soon in the HTPC, provided the USB N adapter works as advertized.

The sound card also is XP drivers only, last time I looked, and, it's working great.

Patriot sent me a replacement for the fried ram from them. It doesn't work, either, with both of the slots populated. So, crucial ram is RMA'd,
one stick is in the HTPC, and I'm saving for a new motherboard, etc. for the HTPC.

 

[Bozo]

KVR400D2N3K2/26 : Kingston Value RAM 400MHz DDR2 N3 (timing : 3 cycles) Kit of 2.

Normally, the last number is the size of the kit or stick in either MB of GB. 26, I don't know what it is.

I believe the 26 should be 2G for 2 GB. (I need to use a magnifying glass to read those part numbers :-D )

 

[CougTek]

Makes sense to me.

 

[Santilli]

Might this be caused by a corrupt bios? Would flashing the bios work, or should I leave well enough alone? Doesn't really appear to need anymore ram, at least for what it does, and looking at task manager.

 

[CougTek]

Doesn't really appear to need anymore ram, at least for what it does, and looking at task manager.

If it's not broken, don't try to fix it.

 

[Santilli]

Emailed Gigaybte about the motherboard. They informed me that the memory controller is on the cpu. Apparently, on that CPU, the AMD 64 series, they fail. So, I've had two chips, a 3200 and 3800+ that both had failed memory controllers. They still work, just not able to use the dual channel ram feature.

I ordered a AMD Dual Core X2 64 off ebay, and, wonder of wonders, it actually has a memory controller that works. Not only did the chip double the speed of the computer in actual computer functions, but, it uses both ram sticks, so I'm back to having Dual Channel ram, and 2 gigs. All for 33 dollars, off ebay.

 

[time]

Ram 95 dollars
PS, though this is useable in a new box
95.00
Junk ASUS board
60 dollars
cpu cooler 15 dollars.
...
A64 CPU 25 bucks
X2 CPU 33 dollars
Corsair DDR ?? dollars
Kingston DDR2 26 dollars
...
Shipping stuff 20 dollars

Total = $274 to $369, depending on whether or not you count the PSU.

OR

GIGABYTE s1155 with USB3 $80
Intel G840 CPU $89
Kingston 4GB (2x2) DDR3 $26

Total = $195 and it out-performs all AMD X2 solutions and uses less power. Or you could drop $30-50 off the CPU with a Celeron or AMD X2 and $20 off the motherboard if you didn't want USB 3.0.

Apart from the flaky CPU, it's not clear that anything else failed.

 

[Santilli]

Ram 95 dollars
PS, though this is useable in a new box
95.00
Junk ASUS board
60 dollars
cpu cooler 15 dollars.
...
A64 CPU 25 bucks
X2 CPU 33 dollars
Corsair DDR ?? dollars
Kingston DDR2 26 dollars
...
Shipping stuff 20 dollars "

RAM: No cost. Patriot lifetime warranty, replaced with better timed ram then prior.
The two other ram purchases cost me a new egg restocking fee, IIRC about 5.00, since they refunded the first one.

60 bucks Asus board, 15 bucks cpu cooler. 3200+ 3800+, both with defective memory controllers: 50 dollars. I could sell these on ebay, but, I'm kind of reluctant to pass a defective product to someone else.

New power supply ok, but so is the old one. Possible use for that, or ebay it.

33.00 for AMD 64 X2 3800.

Total 153.00

"GIGABYTE s1155 with USB3 $80
Intel G840 CPU $89
Kingston 4GB (2x2) DDR3 $26"

My system is running a Xplosion 7 sound card, that, IIRC, doesn't have newer operating system drivers past XP. Works great by the way.

The Xerox 130DF, while long in the tooth, has a new laser cartridge in it, and works just fine as a copier and printer. 1200 dollars new, and, requires a motherboard with the old standard connector. Also, the PictureMate has XP drivers. I would have to buy Windows
7, so that would equal the total cost of the entire system.

The processor you suggest would be around 175% faster then what I have now.

However, when you start adding a new laser printer(try finding a decent one right now with a cartridge that lasts more then 2 pages for under 200 dollars),
a new picture printer, a new sound card, and Windows 7, you are looking at least 500 dollars.

The existing system does everything I need it to do, with a considerable margin for error on most of the things it does. In all likelyhood, I won't be beyond 55% of cpu usage for most tasks now, and, I got the usage of all my ram back as well.

I did my homework on this one. If I am going to build a new system, it would look something like The Beast, but without the insane video card, and, the dual X-25M raid boot drive.

the i7 2600, and some of the i5's are just too fast to not go to. I'd rather spend a bit more money, and get a system 4 times faster then the one you suggested, if I really need it, when I don't for what this computer does, and does well.

 

[Mercutio]

All the Auzentech sound cards are fully supported on newer versions of Windows.
And time is right: You would have been far better off tossing the old hardware and getting low-end new stuff than dicking around with what you have. Saying that you'd rather spend money on another expensive machine is nothing but misdirection, because you DID spend money on something that wasn't an expensive machine.

 

[CougTek]

Sometimes Greg, when I read what you do and I try to understand your motives, I just :

 

[Santilli]

Mercutio:

I spent time, which is something I had when I was doing this, and learned a bit.

I don't really see tossing the components, and peripherals, of what at the time was a 2500 dollar system for something maybe twice as fast, when I can double the speed of the system with a 33 dollar upgrade.


So, lets really look at the system. The X2 for 33 dollars doubled my passmark score, from around 600 to 1200. It dropped the CPU usage on that one webpage from 100% to 53%. All other functions are fine. XP Pro 3 boots in less then 30 seconds, using the Vertex Turbo that was an RMA from Vertex, when the drive failed in the raid array on the Supermicro server.
No Cost.
The 9600 Sparkle card has as much VRAM as the system, and, all players, including
PowerDVD 10 play flawlessly at low cpu usage.

My girlfriend much prefers XP Pro to Vista, and doesn't know 7. It's primarily her machine.

I don't have to buy another printer, or picture printer.

I now have new ram, no cost, and it's faster, and the system sees all of it.

With the hotswap setup, I don't need to worry about file transfers, and networking between my 7 machines and XP. Just move the drive, much faster then wireless.
In fact, I like having the XP machine pretty much invisible.

I've found the SSD's give these machines new life, not to mention the X2 doubles the processor speed for 33 bucks, no shipping, and, I get to use dual channel ram, rather then
single, a no cost extra.

CT: I didn't know you typed with two fingers;-) and your head.

In another thread, you all were discussing the terrible condition of the consumer laser market, and the problem of the new motherboards not having the old style printer ports for HP 4-5's, not to mention my 4000N.

Also, there are games I can now play on that machine that don't run on 7 that I really enjoy. Quake 4 comes to mind, and on a 40 inch TV, with a full Klipsch system, it's pretty incredible.

It's odd, but there are certain games that I played with my girlfriend that we really enjoyed, and wish we could do again.

The Tex Murphy series for instance. Wish I had a box that would run those games, and wish I still had the games. Titanic, more of the same, though I think that will play on the XP Pro box in the other room.

 

[Mercutio]

Mercutio:

I spent time, which is something I had when I was doing this, and learned a bit.

You also spent somewhere between $150 and $350.
For purposes of comparison, I can build a complete budget build machine for $215.

You can't go by how much stuff cost when it was new. Things depreciate. A 1986 Mercedes 560 was probably $40k when it was new but it's not worth a damned thing now.

It is true that I still see value in parallel port printers, but one can get a modern motherboard with a parallel port if one looks hard enough.

 

[Santilli]

Sam:
I put out over 600 bucks, to buy different products to test this thing. When I got done, I'm in it for 100 bucks or so, and, 90 of that is due to a scumbag roommate throwing out stuff for the shipped power supply, that I would have had near 90 for credit from newegg.

That said, it's kind of sad that no one here knew, or posted, that the memory controller was on the chip for this version of AMD processors.

So, it took about 50 bucks in processors to find one that would use all my high quality memory, and, the dual core processor. I'm really glad I took the one extra step to get the
twice as fast, 33 dollar processor, to upgrade the machine, to a twice as fast processor, and, dual channel 128 bit memory, for 2 gigs of ram.

I find it strange that you advocated the speed of such a setup as an office computer, yet didn't mention that the memory controller was on the chip.

But, I guess even the best tech guys can't know everything....

 

[LiamC]

That said, it's kind of sad that no one here knew, or posted, that the memory controller was on the chip for this version of AMD processors.

That's probably because even before the Athlon 64 came out, AMD touted it as a feature. Every review of every desktop and server chip I've ever read mentions this fact at least once. The fact it is probably falls into the "common knowledge" category that is so obvious that no one thinks to mention it because "everyone knows". Then we are all surprised when someone says "they didn't know". Shrugs. It happens.

Having said that, even if I knew that you didn't know that, it would still be the last thing I'd check, because in my experience, everything else is more likely to fail first. I had a similar experience a while back when somebody gave me a Pentium 4 motherboard and chip. It wouldn't boot, but I didn't have a similar working system to test it against—I never bought a P4. Somebody gave me Celeron socket 478 chip, but they couldn't guarantee that it was working. When I plugged it in, board still didn't boot.

I could have gone down the path that you did, and bought parts to test it and ended up with a working system. Instead I gave the parts to a guy I know who has experience with them in exchange for an AMD socket 754 chip he had no use for. He got the better of the deal, but it probably saved me $$$ and time, so in my books, I did OK out of the deal.

 

[Mercutio]

To be honest, I think you got sold a line of bullshit with regard to AMD CPUs and dead memory controllers. Seriously. When CPUs fail, they pretty much fail totally, and even that is extremely rare. I RMA perhaps one processor every two years. If there were a rash of defective AMD chips it would be all over the internet, even years after they were common.

 

[Bozo]

I believe Intel is moving to CPU mounted memory controllers. Or have they already?

It would be interesting if you could mount those AMD processors in another motherboard to see how they work.