December 2006 desktop PC

[Adcadet]

Hey folks,
My Newcastle 3000+ based desktop computer is going to be 3 years old come January. I originally put 512 MB of RAM in it, thinking that I might upgrade after prices came down, but never did (got cheap, prices never fell that much). I'm now feeling the pain, and really would love to be running with at least 1 GB of memory if not 2. I don't feel like throwing money into RAM that is outdated, however. Also, my current motherboard has displayed some flakiness that I don't appreciate. I'm also running out of storage space, and am actually thinking that I'd like to build some RAID 1 (mirrored) storage 'cause I hate the idea of loosing data, perhaps as part of a dedicated storage server. I figure ~3 years is long enough for a computer lover to go between upgrades. And it doesn't hurt that I've hustled over the past year to make some extra money, and that I likely won't have time to buid a new computer anytime between mid-June 2007 to mid-June 2008 as I'll be an intern.

So, what looks like some good hardware around Christmas 2006 or January 2007? Will Conroes be a good bargain? Will AMD X2s offer good price for performance?

 

[Tannin]

Either, I think. Both will be well-priced, and both will perform.

I'd think less about which CPU to put in it, or how much RAM to use than about the really important things:

* Quality case that doesn't let things wobble around, easy to work on if needed, no stupid blue leds, plenty of room, good natural cooling.
* Good, solid PSU
* Quality RAM: Geil is my choice, but there are several other excellent brands.
* Stable mainboard. In VIA or Nvidia chipsets, think Gigabyte. In Intel chipsets, think about asking someone who knows them better than I do and actually likes them. In SiS, think about putting the money on number 4 in the 5th race: it's equally likely to work as expected, and if it does the payoff is better.
* Reliable hard drives. This means Samsung. Don't settle for anything less.
* Keyboard with decent feel and a non-stupid layout. This is a remarkably difficult thing to find these days. Oh, and if it hasn't got a cable, throw it in the bin now. (This saves time.)

 

[Adcadet]

What's wrong with blue LEDs?

 

[Stereodude]

Nothing is wrong with blue LEDs. They just tend to be overly bright, and hence annoying.

 

[Bozo]

To para-phrase Patton: " only a pimp in New Orleans would have blue leds on his computer case" :rotfl:


Bozo :joker:

 

[Tannin]

What Bozo said.

 

[sechs]

Well, I'm definitely not in New Orleans....

 

[Tannin]

There is a question there, but I ain't asking it.

 

[ddrueding]

Where is Tea when you need her?

 

[Mercutio]

To give an honest answer: Blue or White LEDs are both horribly bright. Obnoxiously bright. I tend to put electrical tape over blue LEDs when I find them.

I'll leave the matter of whether or not they are truly pimptastic to the scholars.

As far as PCs go: The end of the year might bring something with even more cores than current chips have. I'm not sure that's worthwhile to most people; there isn't very much software now that's actually multithreaded and I don't see that changing much.

But regardless, more cores mean more price reductions. Very probably an X2/5000 or E6700 will be in the range of "cheap" ($200ish) CPUs once the quads hit.

I'd expect 2GB of RAM as a minimum, and a 400GB drive.
And of course, some things just don't change: A Good case and a good PSU will always be important to whatever system you build.

 

[Splash]

A wireless mouse is now a smart affordable choice for nearly anyone, unless you are into wild gaming manoeuvres that require fast mouse response. Otherwise, a "stationary" wireless keyboard is a waste of money for nearly anyone who's not going to carry it around (unless you do presentations on the road and require a "normal" keyboard layout).

1 GB of RAM is plenty adequate unless you are doing heavy-duty whatever on your PC. 2GB of RAM would be nice. More than 2GB is kinda sorta a waste of money for a home PC.

• A bit off topic: If you are populating a Core2 "Woodcrest" system with DIMMs, you need to install at least 4 FB-DIMMs if you want to attain fully memory speed. This is required with a 2:1 interleave on a dual memory bus. You can get by with 2 FB-DIMMs, but with significantly diminished memory speed (667 MHz versus 1333 MHz). You can even get by with 1 FB-DIMM on certain "Woodcrest" mobos, but only if you install it in the one proper socket. Being that the smallest available FB-DIMM is 512MB, the minimum normal setup on a "Woodcrest" box is 2 GB of RAM. Of course, many of these "Woodcrest" mobos will allow 16 GB, 32 GB, or even 64 GB of RAM.
  
  
  
  
  
  
  

 

[ddrueding]

[/list]

This reminds me of the days when RAM was added one chip at a time, consuming a significant percentage of the motherboard.

 

[Splash]

This reminds me of the days when RAM was added one chip at a time, consuming a significant percentage of the motherboard.

...and consuming significant percentage of thy wallet.

Back throughout the '80s, I recall populating EMS and XMS boards with bushel baskets of 64 KB or 256 KB RAM chips.

"What crapola," I thought then...

 

[LunarMist]

I would like an 8GB machine, but how expensive are the 2GB modules?

 

[mubs]

...and consuming significant percentage of thy wallet.

Back throughout the '80s, I recall populating EMS and XMS boards with bushel baskets of 64 KB or 256 KB RAM chips.

"What crapola," I thought then...

Ain't that the truth. Been there, done that. Sorta like Dean Witter's tag line "one customer at a time" - sticking in one chip at a time, bending the pins just-so to make them fit...

 

[Tannin]

 

[Buck]

Tannin, is your signature the Mission Statement for ECS?

 

[Gilbo]

If you want an 8GB machine Lunarmist, it will be much cheaper to go with AMD. FB-DIMMs are much more expensive than DDR2 right now. Specifically they are at least 2x the price / GB of the DDR2 DIMMs. 2.5x seems to be more common though.

 

[LOST6200]

I take issue with calling you a loser. You tried and failed, that makes you a failure.

But I am a total loserr and a major fialure!!!

 

[LiamC]

But I am a total loserr and a major fialure!!!

Well a Major outranks a Captain.
Do you really want to be a General Failure?

 

[mubs]

But I am a total loserr and a major fialure!!!

The only thing you'd fail is a typing test.

 

[Adcadet]

Since my last post I've started to finalize negotiations with a company that is willing to pay me nicely for some consulting-type of work, so I'll likely be able to make this replacement purchase whenever it makes sense. From what I can tell, Conroe processors are coming down in price to close to their official launch prices, but I'm still wary of buying a motherboard at the moment. One thing I'm pretty sure won't change much in the next few weeks is the enclosure, so that's something I'd love people's advice on. My current computer sits in an Antec (I think) full tower case. I'm generally very happy with it, and wouldn't mind another spacious case. I don't need a full tower, but I don't want a cramped case, either. It will sit under my large desk, so there's little need for a compact case. I may stick two DVD drives in it, I want to skip the floppy, and maybe up to 4 hard drives. I'm not a big stickler on quietness, but I would prefer to not have extra fans running. I don't care about a side window, but a side vent hole might be nice with cooling. I really want some front-mounted USB ports, and a front headphone jack would be nice. I don't want any doors that I have to open to access a DVD drive unless it can slide out of the way and can't easily be broken. No need for hot swap drive bays, although that would be nice as I hate having to remove a whole drive cage to remove a hard drive. I don't care about color. I don't need aluminum. I would prefer to not blow a ton of money, but I expect to use this case for years so I won't tolerate crap construction. My local Mom and Pop shop (warning: ugly website) that I trust and like carries Antec, Thermaltake, and Raidmax cases, and since I wouldn't have to pay shipping and can feel the product there I thought I'd likely go through them unless I can find something cheaper elsewhere.

So far I've been looking at Antec cases, and have a few thoughts:
--Antec LifeStyle series (Sonata II in particular) - looks too expensive, maybe not big enough.
--Antec P180 - looks nice, I like the top fan idea but I'm worried about needless noise, I don't like the front door.
--Antec SLK3800B - I like the side vents, but I can't tell if that front panel can come off or not.

Any suggestions? I've basically used very few cases in my life - I used some cheap ones for years before getting my current Antec case which has served me well for at least 5 years. Any particular specifications that I should be paying attention to?

 

[ddrueding]

I really like the P180. Don't worry about noise, put the fans on "low" and you won't hear them. The door swivels 270-degrees back to the side of the case so you never have to see it again.

 

[Mercutio]

I've found the top (blowhole) fan needs frequent cleaning on the P180 to keep it from making noise. The door might be a positive or negative for people as well. I actually had to replace someone's case because they didn't like the door.

Which was OK. I put them in a $60 solution series and suddenly had an extra P180.

 

[ddrueding]

If the top Fan is an issue...fine. Remove it completely or just unplug it; it's not like the case is short of ventilation.

 

[Handruin]

I don't even use the top fan on my P180...the other two are set on low and are more than enough to cool my system.

 

[mubs]

I'm quite happy with my 2 x modified Antec SX-1030 cases.

You may want to check out the Antec P150 as well.

 

[ddrueding]

The P150 is also a great case. The PS it ships with is nice and the case is well thought out, but it's not a full-tower case. It isn't cramped for my needs, but you may want to put more stuff in yours.

 

[Adcadet]

I think a well designed larger mid-tower would work just fine. Will ATX cases likely remain usable for the next 5 years? I thought Intel rolled out the BTX specification a few years ago, though I haven't heard anything about that lately.

What about a power supply? I'm thinking a Conroe or Athlon 64 X2. Maybe up to 4 hard drives initially, 2 opticals. Anything special I should be looking for?

 

[ddrueding]

The P150 ships with an Antec NeoPower 430W. That should be fine for anything shy of an SLI gaming rig, and it is very quiet.

 

[Adcadet]

Woo hoo! I got my consulting job on terms that I am happy with. So I can now afford to build a nice computer, and now if I felt like it. Do people see nicer Conroe-based motherboards coming out soon? Right now it looks like motherboard selection is rather thin, to the point of me going with an AM2-based board and an X2 4600 or so (something around $200).

 

[ddrueding]

Congrats on the gig Adcadet!

On another note; I'm just about to do another system build. "Hm" I think "everyone is talking about how competitive Intel's new chips are, let's have a look".

They start at nearly $200. $200? WTF? I haven't bought a chip (for someone else) that cost more than $200 in months! This is their new competitve solution?

I build relatively high-end machines compared to most system builders, and most of my systems get $120 CPUs (Single-core 3800+, or the occasional X2) . $200 for CPU, plus $150 for MB, plus $250 for RAM (2GB of course)...wait! We're out of money. No case, no PSU, no optical, no video....nada.

 

[Adcadet]

I build relatively high-end machines compared to most system builders, and most of my systems get $120 CPUs (Single-core 3800+, or the occasional X2) . $200 for CPU, plus $150 for MB, plus $250 for RAM (2GB of course)...wait! We're out of money. No case, no PSU, no optical, no video....nada.

Yeah, that's exactly what I'm thinking. Where are the good $83 boards with onboard everything? $220 for the Asus P5B Deluxe? Last time I spent that kind of money on a motherboard it was a dual CPU board with onboard SCSI. And why is RAM so expensive these days? I thought a new computer would run me $600 until I started to add things up - I'm looking at over $1000. Hence the need for the second...er, third job. Well, really just the first paying one. Sortof. At this rate I'll have to start selling prescriptions on the street!

 

[ddrueding]

$600 Rigs are easy...they just aren't Core 2 Duo. Stick with a X2 3800+ (or a 3600+ if you can find one). If you can keep it S939 as opposed to AM2 you can use the (cheaper and faster) DDR vs. DDR2. Good motherboards with decent onboard video for $100-$130, dual-core CPU for $150. Not a problem.

If Intel thought this chip would win some users, they missed by about 30%.

 

[Mercutio]

I got my first batch of Antec NSK4400s today. I was shocked and delighted to discover that beneath the classic black and silver exterior is the exact same chassis as my beloved Compucase 6812. I haven't seen a new one in over two years.

With the Antec name on it, it was ~$12 more than I was paying for my old standby, but honestly, the looks more than make up for it. We've been talking about Antec's offerings in this thread but unless I need a full tower for some reason, I don't see a reason to look at anything else.

 

[Bozo]

I've been buying the Antec SLK1650B case. Internally it is identical to the Antec NSK4400. But, the NSK 4400 has a better power supply. High efficiency and PF correction.
Hmmm, looks I'll be making a change.

Bozo :joker:

 

[Adcadet]

anybody ever lay hands on an NSK6500? From what I can tell it's very similar to the NSK4400 except for a bigger power supply, a little bigger overall, side vents, and little level thingies rather than self retaining screws for the case. I'm worried about noise with those side vents

 

[Santilli]

I LIKE blue LED's, and, I like this case

Antec P160W Silver Mid Tower

Can be had for under 100 dollars now.

Have two, like both, a lot.

Greg

 

[Handruin]

I also have the P160 and I like the case. I find the air flow for the power supply is much better in the P180 though. My PS would get very warm in the P160, but stays cool to the touch in the P180.

 

[Clocker]

I don't even use the top fan on my P180...the other two are set on low and are more than enough to cool my system.

Similar here. I only have one exhaust fan out back set to low. No other fans in my case other than the 80mm unit blowing though my Scythe Ninja cooler at just under 600RPM (controlled by the motherboard). I probably don't need it at all but I like to keep it enabled and I can't hear it at that low speed anyway. My system is pretty damn quiet even with the X1900XT (it only gets loud when gaming and then I have headphones on).

I had a top fan for the P180 for a little while (one of those 120mm turbine fan thingys) that spun at 900RPM. That was almost inaudible.

I hate Antec PSUs right now because of the failures I've had but the SmartPower 2.0 is basically inaudible since one of the dual fans is off all the time (because the PSU runs so cool in a P180 case).