Evidently, I will be buying a $100 sound card in 2005
- Thread starter Mercutio
- Start date
ddrueding
Fixture
Mercutio
Fatwah on Western Digital
More than I paid for it?
Buy low, sell high, right?
Buy low, sell high, right?
Sol
Storage is cool
Damn that X-Plosion is a $189 sound card over here... Still it's nice to have a superior alternative to creative. I have an audigy and it's inability to encode DD is a real pain (As are the damn drivers)...
Mercutio
Fatwah on Western Digital
Got cards. I haven't installed 'em yet, since I'm at work, but for THIS revision of the hardware, they specify either their non-existant Digital Audio daughterboard or a Hoontech SB-DB III.
I used to use a Hoontech I/O board back when I still had an SB Live, but the connector is completely different from the one I used... and near as I can tell those Hoontech boards aren't sold anywhere in the USA any more.
Sob.
I used to use a Hoontech I/O board back when I still had an SB Live, but the connector is completely different from the one I used... and near as I can tell those Hoontech boards aren't sold anywhere in the USA any more.
Sob.
Groltz
My demeaning user rank is
Mercutio
Fatwah on Western Digital
Finally got around to installing one of the X-Plosions.
It is, needless to say, breathtaking.
For my sample this time, I treated myself to the full 2:24:03 of "Lord of the Rings" soundtracks from lossless FLAC source. There's a great mix of music in that, from strings, heavy percussion, choral pieces, blaring horns and, at times, solo vocalists. As an aside, "Special Edition" recordings of the Lord of the Rings soundtracks are now being released. The first one was absolutely worth the $50 I paid for it.
First thing: The tiny flaw in these cards is that it takes a heartbeat for sound to start, once sound is played (i.e. you usually miss the first half-second of a sound if the card has been idle) still exists. I get around that by setting my recording properties to use "line in" as the sound source and turning up recording and playback volumes for that source. That seems to correct the problem.
There doesn't seem to be an audible difference between the DD5.1 mode on the X-Plosion and the X-Mystique, although the X-P supposedly samples Dolby at a higher bit rate. The mix is still bass-heavy and lacking on the center channel. The review Groltz posted indicates that the HDA cards don't use the center at all; this is not true; the cones on my center channel speaker are moving in DD mode. The center, in either DD or DTS mode is a mix of the left and right front speaker rather than a discrete channel. Dolby Prologic II and DTS:Neo6 both use a stereo "narrowing" effect to make the center more apparent to a listener. This card does not seem to do that, but it's still possible to emphasize the center by using the volume control.
The real new toy here is DTS Connect. Bitrates are higher, but compression is lower. Does it sound like $150 worth of extra goodness?
Well, I think so.
First, the mix to the center channel seems to be better. I still had to play with the builtin multichannel volume control, but it only needs to be at +3 (+3 what? I have no idea. +3) to meet my expectations. Bass is less prominent, less "boomy" than with the Dolby Live mode, enough that I actually felt the need to bump the volume on my sub a bit.
Those were things I could tell without doing any critical listening at all.
Two places where I can usually hear compression artifacts from MP3 sources are in the crash of cymbals and in brass. Getting voices and strings to sound good usually isn't that hard. Trumpets are rough.
Since we're doing re-sampling and compressing the audio signal prior to output, I expected those things to be the best place to find differences between the different types of output the X-Plosion could produce.
I switched from my game PC, which still has an X-Mystique, and the X-Plosion in the new machine I just built, and in places the differences were night and day - in DTS, soaring brass themes were absolutely crystalline. The same tracks (Return of the King - "Anduril" was the main one I compared) in Dolby Live was somewhat muddy in comparison; horns lost the precise timbre I could hear in the straight PCM or DTS. The Dolby mix was still pleasing, but lifeless.
In straight solo vocal (e.g. Fellowship of the Ring - "Breaking of the Fellowship"), there was almost no difference between the two forms of encoding, once I matched the volumes for all channels.
As a sort of tiebreaker, I tried to consider a more generic orchestral tracks (Two Towers - "Helm's Deep" and "Samwise the Brave"). "Helm's Deep" is positively operatic - musical drama writ large. And to be honest, while I could hear some difference, but neither Dolby or DTS was more pleasing. Both cards do bombastic very well. "Samwise the Brave" is a delicate blend of strings and woodwinds... and on that track, the choice was much clearer, as I found the DTS version to once again have a more precise timbre on the high end of the scale.
Gaming-wise, I managed to go a couple rounds of botmatches in UT2004. I turned on EAX and maxed out all the other settings in the game. Sound was appropriate for the experience. Gaming, even EAX, isn't exactly demanding for a card like this.
All in all, I do feel that I got an upgrade in sound quality I can easily hear, one that was worth the money I paid. I'm still waiting patiently for my digital inputs, but other than that, I'm quite pleased. I haven't heard the latest card Creative is shoveling, but for someone who is considering a PC connected to a home theater receiver, I really do think X Plosion is the way to go.
It is, needless to say, breathtaking.
For my sample this time, I treated myself to the full 2:24:03 of "Lord of the Rings" soundtracks from lossless FLAC source. There's a great mix of music in that, from strings, heavy percussion, choral pieces, blaring horns and, at times, solo vocalists. As an aside, "Special Edition" recordings of the Lord of the Rings soundtracks are now being released. The first one was absolutely worth the $50 I paid for it.
First thing: The tiny flaw in these cards is that it takes a heartbeat for sound to start, once sound is played (i.e. you usually miss the first half-second of a sound if the card has been idle) still exists. I get around that by setting my recording properties to use "line in" as the sound source and turning up recording and playback volumes for that source. That seems to correct the problem.
There doesn't seem to be an audible difference between the DD5.1 mode on the X-Plosion and the X-Mystique, although the X-P supposedly samples Dolby at a higher bit rate. The mix is still bass-heavy and lacking on the center channel. The review Groltz posted indicates that the HDA cards don't use the center at all; this is not true; the cones on my center channel speaker are moving in DD mode. The center, in either DD or DTS mode is a mix of the left and right front speaker rather than a discrete channel. Dolby Prologic II and DTS:Neo6 both use a stereo "narrowing" effect to make the center more apparent to a listener. This card does not seem to do that, but it's still possible to emphasize the center by using the volume control.
The real new toy here is DTS Connect. Bitrates are higher, but compression is lower. Does it sound like $150 worth of extra goodness?
Well, I think so.
First, the mix to the center channel seems to be better. I still had to play with the builtin multichannel volume control, but it only needs to be at +3 (+3 what? I have no idea. +3) to meet my expectations. Bass is less prominent, less "boomy" than with the Dolby Live mode, enough that I actually felt the need to bump the volume on my sub a bit.
Those were things I could tell without doing any critical listening at all.
Two places where I can usually hear compression artifacts from MP3 sources are in the crash of cymbals and in brass. Getting voices and strings to sound good usually isn't that hard. Trumpets are rough.
Since we're doing re-sampling and compressing the audio signal prior to output, I expected those things to be the best place to find differences between the different types of output the X-Plosion could produce.
I switched from my game PC, which still has an X-Mystique, and the X-Plosion in the new machine I just built, and in places the differences were night and day - in DTS, soaring brass themes were absolutely crystalline. The same tracks (Return of the King - "Anduril" was the main one I compared) in Dolby Live was somewhat muddy in comparison; horns lost the precise timbre I could hear in the straight PCM or DTS. The Dolby mix was still pleasing, but lifeless.
In straight solo vocal (e.g. Fellowship of the Ring - "Breaking of the Fellowship"), there was almost no difference between the two forms of encoding, once I matched the volumes for all channels.
As a sort of tiebreaker, I tried to consider a more generic orchestral tracks (Two Towers - "Helm's Deep" and "Samwise the Brave"). "Helm's Deep" is positively operatic - musical drama writ large. And to be honest, while I could hear some difference, but neither Dolby or DTS was more pleasing. Both cards do bombastic very well. "Samwise the Brave" is a delicate blend of strings and woodwinds... and on that track, the choice was much clearer, as I found the DTS version to once again have a more precise timbre on the high end of the scale.
Gaming-wise, I managed to go a couple rounds of botmatches in UT2004. I turned on EAX and maxed out all the other settings in the game. Sound was appropriate for the experience. Gaming, even EAX, isn't exactly demanding for a card like this.
All in all, I do feel that I got an upgrade in sound quality I can easily hear, one that was worth the money I paid. I'm still waiting patiently for my digital inputs, but other than that, I'm quite pleased. I haven't heard the latest card Creative is shoveling, but for someone who is considering a PC connected to a home theater receiver, I really do think X Plosion is the way to go.
ddrueding
Fixture
As you talk of strings, the first few notes of "Green Day - Hitchin' a Ride" starts up, and I attempt to identify atrifacts in the strings...
Nice review, I'll certainly consider one for my HTPC, once I get worthwhile speakers hooked up to the reciever.
Nice review, I'll certainly consider one for my HTPC, once I get worthwhile speakers hooked up to the reciever.
Mercutio
Fatwah on Western Digital
Do you want an x-mystique or not, ddrueding? I have one left to sell...
ddrueding
Fixture
Mercutio said:
I'm afraid I have to duck out. I was just "forced" into buying an in-ceiling electric projection screen. $2400 for a screen leaves no room for a $100 sound card.
Pradeep
Storage? I am Storage!
What projector are you using?
ddrueding
Fixture
Pradeep said:
Sharp XR-20X. I was hoping to sell it to my old roommate when I moved out, but he wouldn't take it even at a discount. Now I feel compelled to make use of it at the new house. So here I am, spending twice the cost of the projector on a screen that passes the GF test.
theSwede
What is this storage?
Merc,
are you still looking for the HDA-X10 digital daughterboard? They are available here in Sweden and I'd be happy to ship one to you if you are interested.
are you still looking for the HDA-X10 digital daughterboard? They are available here in Sweden and I'd be happy to ship one to you if you are interested.
Mercutio
Fatwah on Western Digital
Name your price.
theSwede
What is this storage?
Well, the card is SEK 415 plus SEK 125 for postage. The Swedish post office charges SEK 219 to ship a small package to USA. If you would like it insured it is another SEK 60.
Divide by 7,8 to get US$. It will end up somewhere around $100...
This link might work
http://www.shg.biz/produkter/infobox.asp?varenr=730283
If not go to http://www.shg.biz, follow the link "Hårdvara", "Ljudkort" and "Intern". They call it "HDA Digital X-510 Digital I/O Module For Creative SoundBlaster cards". I have no idea if it is the correct card, but the image of the box clearly says it is a HDA-X10.
Divide by 7,8 to get US$. It will end up somewhere around $100...
This link might work
http://www.shg.biz/produkter/infobox.asp?varenr=730283
If not go to http://www.shg.biz, follow the link "Hårdvara", "Ljudkort" and "Intern". They call it "HDA Digital X-510 Digital I/O Module For Creative SoundBlaster cards". I have no idea if it is the correct card, but the image of the box clearly says it is a HDA-X10.
Mercutio
Fatwah on Western Digital
I'm perfectly willing to pay that sum, but I'm going to check with the US distributor of the product to find out why it's available in Sweden but not the USA.
Thank you so much, TheSwede!
Thank you so much, TheSwede!
Groltz
My demeaning user rank is
Mercutio
Fatwah on Western Digital
CougTek
Hairy Aussie
More accurately ,an audio solution with a similar feature to Soundstorm : Dolby Digital 5.1. But the Realtek audio codec should use more CPU cycles than the old Soundstorm south bridge did.
Will Rickards
Storage Is My Life
mubs
Storage? I am Storage!
Those guys ceratinly have the gift of the gab, as Merc has pointed out. Reminds me of that mail-order guy in Chatsworth CA that we talked about in another thread and whose name eludes me at the moment. The guy that sold audio gear, radar detectors etc, and later computer stuff in the mid and late '80s. Almost sounds like he's doing the writeup for woot. DAK! That was it.
Mercutio
Fatwah on Western Digital
You guys missed a wonderful chance to get the best sound card ever made.
ddrueding
Fixture
Merc,
Thanks so much for turning me onto this card. I just spent the last hour standing at my workbench listening to songs instead of working. This machine is destined for my comfortable desk in less than an hour, but I couldn't put the headphones down. Really amazing.
Thanks so much for turning me onto this card. I just spent the last hour standing at my workbench listening to songs instead of working. This machine is destined for my comfortable desk in less than an hour, but I couldn't put the headphones down. Really amazing.
Seems I have inadvertently made a bad decision and the motherboard I have now has no optical or coax out.
What do we have for a decent sound card these days? Hoping for something non creative...
Either old PCI or PCIEx1 is fine by me.
What do we have for a decent sound card these days? Hoping for something non creative...
Either old PCI or PCIEx1 is fine by me.
ddrueding
Fixture
Not bad. As long as ASUS releases their own drivers I guess that's OK, that's my main problem with creative. That optical converter jack looks like it will break VERY easily though.
I only really care about 5.1.
Researching a digital header, my onboard is Realtec ALC883, wonder if I can find a digital header somehow? Supermicro C2SBA+II motherboard.
Mercutio
Fatwah on Western Digital
In one of the weirder things I've had to do recently, I put one of these on a server that needed not just audio but a SPDIF connector.
Yes, that's right: $4250 including labor so that my customer never has to be without pure digital XM radio because he's too cheap to buy a $50 XM receiver for his mono PA system.
Yes, that's right: $4250 including labor so that my customer never has to be without pure digital XM radio because he's too cheap to buy a $50 XM receiver for his mono PA system.
ddrueding
Fixture
Heh. For a while I had a Creative USB sound card jacked into the backup server, so I could listen to tunes while working on the racks. Until the crappy creative drivers managed to crash the system.
Mercutio
Fatwah on Western Digital
You said Creative in the same sentence with drivers, and that's as much troubleshooting as needed to be done.
ddrueding
Fixture
Yup. I wasn't even playing anything. Apparently the TSR that it required conflicted with SyncToy in some inconceivable way.
I like my XM but not that much, I just have the radio here with some really old PC speakers.
Thinking about this now:
http://www.turtlebeach.com/products/mtgoddl/home.aspx
Dolby Digital Live and some form of digital out is all I'm looking for so I can game on the big TV.
Some of the quick reviews on newegg are slamming ASUS's x64 drivers.
Thinking about this now:
http://www.turtlebeach.com/products/mtgoddl/home.aspx
Dolby Digital Live and some form of digital out is all I'm looking for so I can game on the big TV.
Some of the quick reviews on newegg are slamming ASUS's x64 drivers.
Stereodude
Not really a
I have a CL USB sound "card". I never bothered to load any drivers for it, but used the MS default drivers instead, and it worked fine.
Stereodude
Not really a
You charged someone $4250 to install a $40 USB sound "card"?
Mercutio
Fatwah on Western Digital
Nope, but the USB digital sound wound up as a sales point.
Adcadet
Storage Freak
What do you guys recommend for a decent basic sound card these days? I'm currently using my on-board Realtek ALC883 hooked up to my Sennheiser HD280 headphones. I typically listen to NPR radio or MP3s; I occasionally care about sound quality, but usually don't. Would I get any benefit from getting an add-on card? CPU savings? I'm currently running a C2D 6400 @ 3.2 GHz with 2 GB RAM, with WinXP and Vista.
ddrueding
Fixture
I've found that the onboard stuff is quite good these days. The only reason I install an additional card is if the mobo doesn't support SPDIF/some other feature.
Mercutio
Fatwah on Western Digital
I can usually tell the difference between onboard sound and a decent add-in card, if the PC is hooked up to decent enough speakers. I'll admit that a lot of the time it doesn't matter, but I'd far rather have my AuzenTech hardware than some crappy Sigmatel or RealTek chip.
Well I took the really cheap way out and got some headphone splitters and some 3.5mm to RCA adapters to go to my stereos analog in. If I really hate it I will be out 5 bucks but I am sort of waiting on that X-Fi HomeTheater HD if I do anything, I think the HDMI sound processing may be worth it if I am going to spend money on it at all.
I wonder if anything will come of this?
http://www.conexant.com/news/ and click on the 10-Dec-2008 link
"...Dec. 10, 2008 – Conexant Systems, Inc.
(NASDAQ: CNXT), a leading supplier of innovative semiconductor solutions for
imaging, audio, video, and Internet connectivity applications, today announced that it has signed an exclusive agreement with Analog Devices, Inc. (NYSE: ADI) to manufacture, distribute, and support ADI’s PC audio codec product line."...
http://www.conexant.com/news/ and click on the 10-Dec-2008 link
"...Dec. 10, 2008 – Conexant Systems, Inc.
(NASDAQ: CNXT), a leading supplier of innovative semiconductor solutions for
imaging, audio, video, and Internet connectivity applications, today announced that it has signed an exclusive agreement with Analog Devices, Inc. (NYSE: ADI) to manufacture, distribute, and support ADI’s PC audio codec product line."...