Evil Empire

[time]

People here are undoubtedly aware that rather than compete, Apple has decided to pay an army of lawyers instead. They're particularly anxious about Samsung's latest offerings, the Galaxy II phone and the Galaxy Tab 10.1 tablet.

The Galaxy Tab seems to give them the most heartburn, perhaps because the iPad is reputedly Apple's most profitable product, or perhaps because the Galaxy is much better - I couldn't say. They have succeeded in stopping Galaxy sales in Europe and Australia with injunctions (based on Apple's statements, not any defense from Samsung at this stage).

In Germany and The Netherlands, Apple has been found to have photoshopped images of the Samsung products to make them more closely resemble the iPhone and iPad.

I really, really like this argument from Samsung - that the tablet was described in detail by Arthur C Clarke and given form and function in 2001: A Space Oddysey!

 

[CougTek]

I'm just posting to tell you why there's no reply to that thread. There cannot be a discussion over a subject on which everyone agrees. I would not expect a reply if I posted a thread with a title like "Hey, guess what? Earth's round!" Likewise, everyone here knows that Apple IS an evil empire. What did you expect, except : "Yeah, you're right"?

I hope it will, but I don't expect Samsung's defense to hold in court. Patents kill innovations.

 

[CougTek]

Re-reading my post, I realize I may sound cynical. My goal was not to critique but to explain. Sorry if it felt offensive.

 

[Bozo]

BTW, the earth is flat. It just looks round because of the shape of our eye balls. :-D

 

[Sol]

I don't think Apple are specifically worried about Samsung, I think they're probably just starting with Samsung and if they can win there they'll go after everyone else.

I'm guessing they're starting with Samsung because Samsung seem to be positioning themselves directly against Apple in tablets by they're going for the premium market. Not only are their products similar, their prices are too. Samsung have high priced tablets, and Motorola have a high priced tablet and Apple have sued both of them, I don't think that's a coincidence.

Ironically the prices are, in my opinion, the very reason that Samsung and Motorola aren't much of a long term threat. Sooner or later people are going to realise that S&Ms tablets consist exactly the same hardware, and near enough exactly the same software as everyone else's less expensive tablets. (Well not the cheap crappy ones but Asus, Acer, Toshiba, Lenovo and a few others are all pumping out hardware with specs near enough identical to the Galaxy Tab and Xoom as makes no difference)

In any case the iPad is far too generic looking a device to have a design patent granted and upheld, in my opinion. As pointed out it looks like every sci-fi personal computing device devised in the last 40-50 years. Give a basic description of what it does to someone who's never seen an iPad but is familiar with the basic components from which they are built (LCD touch panels, low power SOCs and LiPo batteries) and you'd get something close enough to infringe on this design patent, and surely that's contrary to the whole idea of patents of any kind.

 

[Handruin]

I like Samsung's argument also. I hope they win, but I don't have high hopes that they will.

 

[Mercutio]

It think if one thing has been proven definitively this week, it's that the consuming public is really demanding a high quality $100 tablet. HP presumably took a bath on every Touchpad it sold, but does anyone think that an Apple product is ever going to compete on the basis of price?

 

[ddrueding]

Apple survives on high margin. As soon as a product becomes a commodity that anyone can make the margin is shot. Android is the key to tablets becomming a commodity.

 

[Handruin]

I would argue it's not just high margin. They survive on a perception of white-colored product holiness. They need to claim a good portion of market share to make it work. If they can get someone to buy their product through perception, they're not only profiting from the sale, but also at the denial of a sale from a competitor.

 

[ddrueding]

Market share is also required for their "walled garden" concept to work.

If you lock everyone out but those that use large parts of your product ecosystem, it gets claustrophobic unless there are a lot of people on the inside.

 

[Stereodude]

Apple is selling fashion, not function. As long as they're able to do that the technical merits of the product no longer matter,

 

[Handruin]

Apple is selling fashion, not function. As long as they're able to do that the technical merits of the product no longer matter,

Not entirely. I agree they're emphasis is on fashion and overall experience, but they do sell some products that function very well. I also feel they stifle certain amounts of innovation with their walled garden approach.

 

[CougTek]

The evil empire's emperor has resigned

 

[LunarMist]

All that money and dying fairly young...

 

[Stereodude]

Can I run out and naked short sell Apple stock now?

 

[LunarMist]

Maybe put some clothes on if you go outside?

 

[sechs]

Someone said that Apple didn't widen the tablet market; they created the iPad market.

Many people buy an iPad because it's an iPad, not because they want a tablet.

 

[timwhit]

Can I run out and naked short sell Apple stock now?

It's already down close to 5% in after-hours trading.

 

[time]

11 years ago, there was the ProGear webpad.

18 years ago, there was the EO Personal Communicator

They both look pretty minimalist to me, and I see they both have rounded corners. :roll: Mind you, so does my kitchen table, and it's pretty thin as well. Will A**le sue me?

 

[Handruin]

Will A**le sue me?

They're considering it. Then they'll want to sell you an iPad.

I'm becoming slightly interested in Amazon's new tablet that's been rumored. I hope it comes out and puts the iPad to shame at half the price. As an Amazon Prime member, this device looks attractive to me.

 

[MaxBurn]

The amazon tablet looks to be the thing to watch not because of what it is but because they have an ecosystem behind it adding to the totel value like apple does with the iPad. IMO

 

[Handruin]

I agree, that's the exact reasons why I'm interested. I also genuinely like Amazon as a company.

 

[MaxBurn]

Amazon just needs to be really careful they don't annoy the devs in their app store and drive them away. I have read some reports of them going in and changing app descriptions and price of apps without asking the devs. They have a bit of a bad rap right now and they need to turn that around quick. Happy devs make really great apps which add so much hidden value to a platform. Hopefully just growing pains.

 

[Sol]

I really hope that Amazon don't make it huge with a locked down tablet and then continue being dicks to developers, safe in the knowledge that the devs now need them.

 

[Santilli]

I've been burned by apple so bad, I still have scars. That was over 12 years ago.

Apple has long been the MSFT wannabe, except worse, since they limit software production by limiting hardware. In other words, OS X didn't have drivers for some very expensive, prior compatible scsi cards, and therefore drives. In other words, they want you to buy the complete appliance, and pay their insane pricing for now standard hardware, or, screw you, we won't support your enterprise hardware.

SIWTSDS apple.

 

[Handruin]

I've been burned by apple so bad, I still have scars. That was over 12 years ago.

Apple has long been the MSFT wannabe, except worse, since they limit software production by limiting hardware. In other words, OS X didn't have drivers for some very expensive, prior compatible scsi cards, and therefore drives. In other words, they want you to buy the complete appliance, and pay their insane pricing for now standard hardware, or, screw you, we won't support your enterprise hardware.

SIWTSDS apple.

This is nothing new. This has always been Apple's MO. Their way or the highway.

 

[CougTek]

SIWTSDS apple.

That's a new one for me. Stick it where the Sun doesn't shine. Original.

 

[Mercutio]

Apple has long been the MSFT wannabe

Apple has never wanted to be Microsoft.
Microsoft wanted to be IBM. And in a way, they are.

But Apple has never really given serious run at competing in general purpose business computing. Instead, they created a system with some practical business use (early support for networking and WYSIWYG, etc.) that wasn't widely adopted except by creative professionals in a few industries. Apple has more or less always been a niche, consumer or possibly prosumer driven player.

Microsoft is horrible at consumer-driven anything but fantastic for general purpose business needs in most markets. They do documentation really well, have great resources for developers and a first class support ecosystem.

It's really a completely different mindset, but it's very easy to see if you can go someplace where there are both Apple and Microsoft retail stores. The Apple store will be filled with slobs looking for iThing stuff and help from the three people in the area who know something about Macs, and the Microsoft store will be largely empty but there will be a lot of friendly people who can explain how you can integrate an Excel worksheet into SQL Server for Dynamics CRM that turns into a nifty display on Surface.

 

[Santilli]

Our local Apple shop has been packed every time I walk by. People playing with over-priced, under functional computers.

It always seems like there is something that Apple won't let you do with your ipad, etc. that you would be able to do with a normal product. Print without using airport and an apple printer, for example.

Apple appeals to the yuppies around here.

 

[MaxBurn]

From what I have read apple has the ability to say no, no we aren't going to do x, y and z. We are focusing on a, b and c and doing that the best we can at that. Then if there is overwelming customer demand we might do b at some point in the future.

That final cut everyone was bitching about being discontinued and replaced with something inadequate reappeared, plenty of demand drove it. But they sure did put that other thing out and let it sit there for a while first.

 

[time]

Apple fears Samsung tablet will 'seduce' customers

I found this report of Apple's legal arguments quite illuminating and well worth a read (it confirms much of what people here have said). If half true, Apple's future looks a lot less rosy than the halcyon days since the iPhone release. And frankly, it sounds like the tiger who's tail they've been pulling has finally become impatient.

 

[Sol]

It just sounds like standard lawyer bullshit posturing. My understanding is that in order for the court to sustain the ban on sales for the duration of the trial Apple have to demonstrate that the damage the sales during that period would cause irreparable harm to Apple. I.e. that the court couldn't just order Samsung to pay some cash and sort it out should they lose.

Apples lawyers have to make an argument that the Galaxy Tab will irreparably harm them, making an argument which is half way plausible nets them bonus points, but is of lesser importance at this stage.
Apple are pissing more and more people off all the time, and if they don't change that I think they will inevitably lose their current market position. But I think they have a pretty long time before that happens at the current rate and they may well change tack before it does.

 

[Sol]

It just sounds like standard lawyer bullshit posturing. My understanding is that in order for the court to sustain the ban on sales for the duration of the trial Apple have to demonstrate that the damage the sales during that period would cause irreparable harm to Apple. I.e. that the court couldn't just order Samsung to pay some cash and sort it out should they lose.

Apples lawyers have to make an argument that the Galaxy Tab will irreparably harm them, making an argument which is half way plausible nets them bonus points, but is of lesser importance at this stage.
Apple are pissing more and more people off all the time, and if they don't change that I think they will inevitably lose their current market position. But I think they have a pretty long time before that happens at the current rate and they may well change tack before it does.

 

[Howell]

Apple's argument that an android product is as comperable to an apple product as it is to other android products is in conflict with it's argument that buyers will become android people. Is it one ecosystem or two, Apple.

 

[time]

Samsung to seek injunctions today against Apple iPhone 4S. This comes after Apple refused Samsung's last offer of conciliation and to lift their own injunction on the Galaxy Tab in Australia.

 

[Mercutio]

As stale as things are in the world of desktops and notebooks, it's interesting to note that while there's plenty of news in the mobile sector, it's almost all due to litigation rather than legitimate innovation.

Samsung and Apple are feuding.
Microsoft is bullying handset and tablet makers into paying it to license IP that's in Android.
Oracle is going to hand Google its ass over Android's Java integration.

I don't view any of this as positive.

 

[Chewy509]

I don't view any of this as positive.

The new way of modern business: If you can't out innovate, then out litigate...

 

[MaxBurn]

Here's some evil for you.

Siri has existed for a long time in the app store, now that it is being integrated with the OS they pulled the app from the store, killed functionality for people that have it on their phone and as far as I can tell deleted it right off my drive.
http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?p=13482696#post13482696

 

[Santilli]

Apple has long stifled development and inovation, at least in my memory, on their computers.
It was SOP for them to either write code to stifle a developer, threaten with legal action, steal and integrate, or buy the program.

Likewise hardware was equally or more so restricted.

They remind me of the kid that catches the bird, then crushes it in their hand, trying to hold on to it.

 

[ddrueding]

Will Steve's death make them more or less evil? I know it will make them less profitable.