First HTPC

[timwhit]

I'm building my friend an HTPC, that will connect to a 36" Sony CRT and a 17" LCD.

Here is what I have specced:

• Intel Core 2 Duo E4300
• GIGABYTE GA-965GM-S2
• G.SKILL 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 800
• GIGABYTE GV-RX165256D-RH Radeon X1650 256MB GDDR2 PCI Express x16
• SAMSUNG SpinPoint T Series HD501LJ 500GB 7200 RPM SATA
• LITE-ON 20X DVD±R DVD Burner LH-20A1S
• Antec Solution Series NSK2400

He wanted to keep the price under $600, this is about $705, which isn't out of the ballpark.

Does anyone have comments on any of the parts?

 

[Stereodude]

You don't 2GB of RAM for a HTPC, however given the current pricing of RAM you probably don't save much by dropping to 1GB (512x2).

I'd also recommend a more current video card. Either wait for an ATI 2400 or grab an nVidia GF8500. This will allow HD video (HD-DVD or Blu-Ray) to be decoded in the future.

 

[Mercutio]

I'd make an effort to find a graphics card that supports HDCP, though I don't see any reason to look for anything more powerful than that x1650. Even those are a little iffy for passive cooling.

You can save a little bit of money by looking at an Intel 946GZIS rather than the Gigabyte board. It's super-vanilla and a little picky about RAM (needs 1.8V - standard spec DDR2).

Also, 2x 1GB Corsair ValueRam DDR2/667 is probably the best deal for RAM on Newegg today, at $30 per stick.

 

[timwhit]

It is not going to be used solely as an HTPC, it will also be used for Matlab and other things, hence the 17" LCD. 2GB of memory is if it is upgraded to Vista, plus he wants to use it for the next 4 years. I bet every computer made in 4 years will have at least 2GB of RAM.

I also highly doubt he will ever put a HD DVD drive or Blu Ray drive in it. If he does, then the video card can be upgraded at that time.

 

[timwhit]

How is this for a Video Card?

 

[Mercutio]

Well, if you're gonna be like that... there's this.

I don't know how those things are for cooling.

 

[Stereodude]

I don't know how those things are for cooling.

Probably poor... You can't run with 0 airflow and expect reasonable temps. If the case has good ventilation and airflow they probably work great.

 

[Bozo]

How is this for a Video Card?

Yech...it's an ASUS. ASUS sucks donkey balls.

Bozo :joker:

 

[CougTek]

There's no good reason for a very budget-limited PC to use DDR2 800MHz instead of cheaper DDR2 667MHz (Corsair and Kingston tend to be cheaper). If he plans to play 3D games, even rarely, then the 8600GT is worth it over the 8500GT or Radeon X1650. The MSI 8600GT is supposedly well made. GeForce 8500/8600 and the upcoming Radeon X2400/X2600 do hardware H.264 decoding, which greatly offloads the host CPU.

If he can wait, then wait for the cheaper Core 2 Duo E2160 instead of the E4300. The performance will be good too and it shouldn't be more expensive than an Athlon 64 X2 3800+ currently is (that is : way cheaper than the E4300). Also, the Radeon X2400/X2600 are supposed to offer better value than the GeForce 8500/8600. They are coming in a few weeks, just after the Core 2 Duo E2160 will arrive.

Lite-On SATA DVD writers are unreliable. Opt for a LG GSA-H62N or a Pioneer DVR-212D instead.

 

[CougTek]

Yech...it's an ASUS. ASUS sucks donkey balls.

Tell the stupid donkey that it shouldn't put his balls near the cooling fan of the graphic card or at least that it should shave its balls so that the hair doesn't get stuck in the fan blades.

 

[Mercutio]

That... is not a pretty mental image.

Also, the NEC/Optiarc SATA drives are several steps above Pioneer, Samsung and LiteOn drives. They are faster at reading CDs and DVDs and they make less noise.

 

[Newtun]

. . .
If he can wait, then wait for the cheaper Core 2 Duo E2160 instead of the E4300. The performance will be good too and it shouldn't be more expensive than an Athlon 64 X2 3800+ currently is (that is : way cheaper than the E4300).

No wait? eWiz seems to have them at $85. with free ground shipping. Limit 1 per customer.

X-bit review

 

[Wavemaker]

If not there, then here (the more expensive boxed/retail version with heatsink + fan) ...

Intel Core 2 Duo E2160 Allendale 1.8GHz 1M shared L2 Cache LGA 775 Processor - Retail

http://www.interproshop.com/commerce/catalog/product.jsp?product_id=13647&czuid=1180550910678

 

[timwhit]

There's no good reason for a very budget-limited PC to use DDR2 800MHz instead of cheaper DDR2 667MHz (Corsair and Kingston tend to be cheaper).

From Newegg it doesn't look like he will save anything with the slower memory, so I will stick with the DDR2 800.

If he plans to play 3D games, even rarely, then the 8600GT is worth it over the 8500GT or Radeon X1650. The MSI 8600GT is supposedly well made. GeForce 8500/8600 and the upcoming Radeon X2400/X2600 do hardware H.264 decoding, which greatly offloads the host CPU.

The MSI 8600GT has a fan, he really doesn't want a fan on the video card. Can you recommend a GeForce 8600 that is fanless for under $150?

He rarely if ever will play any 3D games, so this really is not a major concern, or a reason to spend extra money.

If he can wait, then wait for the cheaper Core 2 Duo E2160 instead of the E4300. The performance will be good too and it shouldn't be more expensive than an Athlon 64 X2 3800+ currently is (that is : way cheaper than the E4300). Also, the Radeon X2400/X2600 are supposed to offer better value than the GeForce 8500/8600. They are coming in a few weeks, just after the Core 2 Duo E2160 will arrive.

Is the E2160 any slower than the 4300? Does it run cooler? An OEM is $85, so after a HSF is added it is within $15 of the 4300, plus, he would have to buy from 2 different places, which is a pain.

Lite-On SATA DVD writers are unreliable. Opt for a LG GSA-H62N or a Pioneer DVR-212D instead.

I guess I need to decide who to trust more, you or Merc when it comes to optical recommendations. Should I go for the LG, Pioneer, or NEC?

 

[timwhit]

Well, if you're gonna be like that... there's this.

I don't know how those things are for cooling.

That only has 1 DVI port. He wants to have 2. Plus, an s-video out.

If he goes with HDCP, and 2 DVI ports in a fanless card, that Asus card is $35 cheaper than anything else out there.

I think I will just tell him to buy the crappy, unreliable, ugly, Asus card and hope it works out. I think I have a crappy Asus card in my machine and it works fine.

 

[timwhit]

Anyone have anything negative to say about the SONY NEC Optiarc Black 18X DVD+R 8X DVD+RW 8X DVD+R DL 18X DVD-R 6X DVD-RW 16X DVD-ROM 48X CD-R 32X CD-RW 48X CD-ROM 2M Cache E-IDE/ATAPI DVD Burner - OEM?

That is one long product title.

 

[ddrueding]

Besides being IDE? nope.

 

[timwhit]

Besides being IDE? nope.

Damn. They are out of stock on the SATA models.

How about the Pioneer DVR-212DBK?

 

[CougTek]

I haven't used NEC DVD burners in a while, so I can't comment how they compare to the Pioneer and LG. I didn't have any problem so far with the LG, but I've only started to use it recently.

If he doesn't plan to play much games, then I think the best solution for him is a passively cooled GeForce 8500GT. He'll still benefit from the hardware H.264 decoding.

I haven't checked the prices on Newegg. I know my market, not the one in your area. Here the DDR2 667 is way cheaper than the 800MHz. I still haven't seen the E2160 on my price lists. I assumed it would cost the same thing as the X2 3800+ (40$CAN less than the E4300).

 

[LiamC]

I bought a Pioneer DVR-212 (the D model cannot burn DVD-RAM if you were wondering what the difference was) to replace an NEC 3540A.

The Pioneer drives can be picky about the SATA port they are plugged into. Mine was. According to CDRFreaks, this is a known issue. Mine would not burn Verbatim DVD-R 16X–well it would burn 1 out of 3 on the spindle. I have burnt about 200 of these on the NEC without issue.

So I tried to update the firmware, and that's when I ran into the issue about the device not being recognised on the SATA port it was on (SATA 3). The Gigabyte 965P-S3 has six SATA ports, 4 native Intel, 2 JMicron. I swapped the drive to the JMicron port (5) with no joy and then back to the last Intel port, where it works. That type of quirk can drive you nuts.

I have only burnt one disc since the firmware update so I cannot comment on the burning issue.

The Pioneer definitely is faster at reading than the NEC. But the NEC was troublefree, except for not liking Mitsubishi DVD+RW.

 

[timwhit]

Thanks for the report on the Pioneer, Liam. Newegg doesn't have any SATA LG drives, so that is out. The Sony NEC Optiarc SATA drives are out of stock. I don't want to buy the Pioneer because of Liam. Now I have no idea of what to get. I guess I could always go back to the Lite-On...

 

[Mercutio]

The NECs will be in stock Monday. I'm sure of that.

 

[timwhit]

The NECs will be in stock Monday. I'm sure of that.

Thanks for letting me know. He was planning on ordering today, but maybe he can wait until tomorrow.

Back to the video card, are there any real negatives to that Asus card, other than it is made by Asus and it might run a bit hot?

It does H.264 and HDCP, it is not the fastest 3D card by any means, but that is not an issue for my friend.

 

[timwhit]

On Newegg, it says ETA is 6/8/07, you sure it will come in on Monday?

 

[Mercutio]

Now I'm not...
Newegg is rarely out of stock on a ppopular item for more than 1 or 2 days.

 

[time]

Can you recommend a GeForce 8600 that is fanless for under $150?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814125061

Same performance as Asus, no fan.

I've personally checked the Gigabyte 8600GT model; after running a few loops of various 3D Mark versions, it was still well under 70C - slightly cooler than the XFX 7600GS I tested a few months ago.

I realize that the Tech Report had poblems with their GTS SP3 version, but he's a known dickhead (a buzzing card, for Chrissake? Maybe it's time to call the manufacturer? Sheesh). Other reviews seem fine, except like for any high-power passively-cooled card (and this is near or at the top), you need to have airflow over the card.

I'd consider the Asus if it was significantly cheaper than the passively cooled Gigabyte, but it's not. Must be one expensive fan ...

 

[Stereodude]

One thing to keep in mind is under Windows XP the full H.264 decoding the on the GF 8500/8600 cards doesn't yet work. They're promising a driver during June to make it work.

 

[time]

Also, the NEC/Optiarc SATA drives are several steps above Pioneer, Samsung and LiteOn drives. They are faster at reading CDs and DVDs and they make less noise.

Faster than Samsung, maybe, but according to Liam:

The Pioneer definitely is faster at reading than the NEC.

Beginning April 1st, 2007 the optical drive business has been transferred to Sony NEC Optiarc America. Please contact Sony NEC Optiarc for support ...

I'm struggling to reconcile all this with Merc's most famous post.

 

[Mercutio]

I've been doing a computer-building class for the past few weeks. I got to watch a whole bunch of PCs with different optical drives load up XP and/or Vista a couple classes ago. The computers with NEC drives consistently finished the OS load before machines with LiteOn, Pioneer or Samsung drives. I was making people wait to take steps through the process, so it was pretty easy to observe.

Current LiteOn drives, by the way, are unacceptable in every way I can think of. Really too bad. They used to be phenomenal.

 

[Mercutio]

I'm struggling to reconcile all this with Merc's most famous post.

I ignore the S*ny part and concentrate on the NEC part.
A lot of LiteOn drives also have a S*ny logo on them. I'm not sure whether LiteOn made drives for S*ny or the other way around, but that name seems inescapable in optical drives.

 

[timwhit]

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814125061

Same performance as Asus, no fan.

I've personally checked the Gigabyte 8600GT model; after running a few loops of various 3D Mark versions, it was still well under 70C - slightly cooler than the XFX 7600GS I tested a few months ago.

I realize that the Tech Report had poblems with their GTS SP3 version, but he's a known dickhead (a buzzing card, for Chrissake? Maybe it's time to call the manufacturer? Sheesh). Other reviews seem fine, except like for any high-power passively-cooled card (and this is near or at the top), you need to have airflow over the card.

I'd consider the Asus if it was significantly cheaper than the passively cooled Gigabyte, but it's not. Must be one expensive fan ...

Thanks for finding that, time. I will definitely recommend he go with that card over the Asus.

Only question is, does this card do HDCP?

 

[CougTek]

HDCP is a feature of the GPU, not a feature of the manufacturer. Same GPU, same feature.

 

[timwhit]

HDCP is a feature of the GPU, not a feature of the manufacturer. Same GPU, same feature.

OK, thanks for the info.

 

[Stereodude]

HDCP is a feature of the GPU, not a feature of the manufacturer. Same GPU, same feature.

But only with certain GPUs... The GF 8600's have HDCP in the GPU. Most others do not.

 

[timwhit]

Everything was ordered yesterday. Hopefully, the build goes smoothly.

Thanks for the advice, everyone.

 

[Will Rickards]

Still using the NSK2400 case? Did you use the stock cooler?

Anybody think I'll have a problem with the ultra 120 extreme cpu cooler in this case?

 

[Mercutio]

Yes.
It isn't tall enough to support an "extreme" cooling system like that.

 

[timwhit]

Yes, that is the case he ordered. We will be using the stock cooler, but I have not built the box yet. I think we are going to do it tonight.

I think Merc could tell you if it will fit or not. Or maybe email Thermalright?

 

[Will Rickards]

Thanks merc.
I saw on silentpcreview it only supports coolers shorter than 12cm or 4.75 inches. The ultra 120 extreme is 160.5 mm. Way too big.

 

[timwhit]

Does anything think heat will be a problem with the stock cooler on a Core2Duo 4300?

How is noise with the stock fan? He is interested in having a quiet machine, but I didn't want to order one without first testing the stock unit.