ddrueding
Fixture
Testing with the following:
i7-4960X @ 4251MHz
1x Titan
i7-4960X @ 4251MHz
1x Titan
Folding@Home
- Thread starter The JoJo
- Start date
I was happy to see the pre-announcement of the GTX780Ti only because it may mean price reductions on their older cards. Seeing as nvidia needs to offset whatever the outcome may be of the AMD 290X, I hope to see GTX780 prices drop to fit these new cards into their lineup.
CougTek
Hairy Aussie
A single GTX780 can do about 2/3 of Mark's production, so it would bring you much closer to our pace. Your production is already quite good though, considering that you have only one machine running the client (and you are not insane).
That's my hope. I'd like to produce more for the team. If I can gain significant processing (PPD) with one GTX780 vs multiple machines and multiple cards I'd like to do that. If for some reason they have a significant price drop, I'll consider two of them. If not, I'll even try running both graphics cards in non-SLI if it's worth the extra gain.
As of right now this is what I have folding:
System #1:
CPU: Core i7 860 (SMP with 2 threads not doing work to allow for GPU folding)
GPU: GTX560 Ti 448 Core
System #2:
CPU: Core i7 3770K
GPU: (no GPU folding because it's using the Intel HD graphics)
As of right now this is what I have folding:
System #1:
CPU: Core i7 860 (SMP with 2 threads not doing work to allow for GPU folding)
GPU: GTX560 Ti 448 Core
System #2:
CPU: Core i7 3770K
GPU: (no GPU folding because it's using the Intel HD graphics)
You won't get GPU lag if you fold with a GTX 780 on machine #2 and continue using the Intel HD graphics to display on the screen. Lag comes about from folding on the same GPU as you are using for display purposes. Folding does work in big chunks, and when you have to move a mouse Windows has to wait till the folding chunk is done before updating the screen producing lag. There is no priority system or an ability to interrupt work in the video subsystem like with a CPU.
That's a good idea and I'll consider it. I was planning to keep the GTX780 on machine #1 since I still play games and would appreciate the added performance from it. Most of the day the machine is sitting without a user so it can crunch undisturbed. If I can manage the cost I could put a second one on machine #2 and do as you suggested with the display. I don't really notice too much of a mouse or video lag with my GTX560 while running F@H. I do see it with HD video playing. The lag is very apparent if I forget that F@H is running and I launch a game. I've had some hard lockups in those cases if I try to stop F@H while a game is running.
I should probably ask the logical question if a GTX780 is a decent choice for crunching folding @ home work or are there better options to consider aside from a Titan (due to excessive cost)? My question may be difficult to answer without knowing the budget or price/performance I'm looking for and I also won't really know more until I see some kind of reduction in price on a GTX780 (if any). I could see spending around $500-$600 for a good folding GPU.
I should probably ask the logical question if a GTX780 is a decent choice for crunching folding @ home work or are there better options to consider aside from a Titan (due to excessive cost)? My question may be difficult to answer without knowing the budget or price/performance I'm looking for and I also won't really know more until I see some kind of reduction in price on a GTX780 (if any). I could see spending around $500-$600 for a good folding GPU.
If I were buying a bunch of video cards right now, I'd consider 660Ti/760s. Mainly because they are relatively inexpensive and yet good producers. There is a very significant increase in PPD (2x+) moving from 560 to 660/760. If you are only going to buy just a few cards, high-end gaming, or care about PPD/W then the Titan or 780 are a very good choices.
AMD in general doesn't do as well right now as Nvidia either absolutely or for the price with the one exception that it doesn't use a CPU core like Nvidia does so it doesn't interfere as much with CPU folding which is important if you are folding bigadv's with a mega CPU machine.
Just note that the GPU landscape is constantly changing. The AMD R9 290(x) may be a game changer (The currently released brand new cards of the series are just re-releases of the 7xxx series). The specs say it will beat the Titan but it hasn't been tested folding and of course Nvidia won't stay still either.
AMD in general doesn't do as well right now as Nvidia either absolutely or for the price with the one exception that it doesn't use a CPU core like Nvidia does so it doesn't interfere as much with CPU folding which is important if you are folding bigadv's with a mega CPU machine.
Just note that the GPU landscape is constantly changing. The AMD R9 290(x) may be a game changer (The currently released brand new cards of the series are just re-releases of the 7xxx series). The specs say it will beat the Titan but it hasn't been tested folding and of course Nvidia won't stay still either.
Thanks again for the feedback. That's good to know that the 660/760's are much better producers than my current GPU. I'd like to run fewer cards in fewer systems which may be why the GTX780 is appealing as a higher PPD option.
I hope to see F@H results of the R9 290(x) soon now that people have been able to order some of them. The pricing was announced and there were a few available on newegg for a short period of time for around $550 and I'm really hoping that the performance reviews released for gaming will push nvidia to drop their premium to match the R9 290.
I'm usually far behind in adopting newer GPUs but I feel like some of the rapid changes are leveling out and slowing down a bit. Even if I were to purchase a GTX 780 now, it's been out for quite some time making me a later adopter. I think I read their next GPU Maxwell is slated some time in 2014 so they'll be on this platform for a least a little while longer until Maxwell introduces its major/minor changes.
I hope to see F@H results of the R9 290(x) soon now that people have been able to order some of them. The pricing was announced and there were a few available on newegg for a short period of time for around $550 and I'm really hoping that the performance reviews released for gaming will push nvidia to drop their premium to match the R9 290.
I'm usually far behind in adopting newer GPUs but I feel like some of the rapid changes are leveling out and slowing down a bit. Even if I were to purchase a GTX 780 now, it's been out for quite some time making me a later adopter. I think I read their next GPU Maxwell is slated some time in 2014 so they'll be on this platform for a least a little while longer until Maxwell introduces its major/minor changes.
Until someone reports specific PPD on the R9 290(x) you can use AnandTech's Compute Folding@home Explicit single precision benchmark as a reasonable comparative estimate of relative folding capability (not PPD though). The benchmark being used is FAHBench and it actually runs a folding test WU using Core_17.
FAHBench does not directly correlate to PPD because it produces output in ns/day of folding which is closer in concept to frame times. The problem is that PPD, for high-end cards is exponential because of the quick return bonus (QRB) and ns/day is a linear measure. So they do not linearly correlate but the benchmark should be a good measure of relative folding capability between cards.
FAHBench does not directly correlate to PPD because it produces output in ns/day of folding which is closer in concept to frame times. The problem is that PPD, for high-end cards is exponential because of the quick return bonus (QRB) and ns/day is a linear measure. So they do not linearly correlate but the benchmark should be a good measure of relative folding capability between cards.
So based on their measurements and graphs, the GTX780 still looks like the better GPU card computationally for F@H when compared to a R9 290X that Anandtech has tested. I don't really follow why there wouldn't be a correlation between the ns/day and QRB if the ns/day is higher, wouldn't that indicate that more work is being done in a day therefore a possibility for having a unit returned faster for a higher QRB?
There is a correlation it just isn't linear, it's geometric and that is what makes it more difficult to predict PPD from ns/day. Faster ns/day will get you more PPD/day but one extra ns/day at the bottom gets you a lot less PPD than an extra ns/day at the top end of the scale.
I agree that the GTX 780 looks to be a better folding performer, it also initially costs more. However, the R9-290(x) uses more power so in the long run it will cost more because electricity costs. On the other hand, if your primary goal is gaming rather than folding from the reviews, the AMD card appears to slightly out perform the GTX 780. In the ending analysis, it is a judgement call that can go both ways.
I agree that the GTX 780 looks to be a better folding performer, it also initially costs more. However, the R9-290(x) uses more power so in the long run it will cost more because electricity costs. On the other hand, if your primary goal is gaming rather than folding from the reviews, the AMD card appears to slightly out perform the GTX 780. In the ending analysis, it is a judgement call that can go both ways.
Thanks for the feedback. It seems like everything you outlined earlier would make this a GPU folder that runs a bit warmer, but doesn't need as much (or any) CPU time to do the work. I wonder if the net sum of wattage used for NVIDIA + required CPU time is equal to AMD without the needed CPU time in terms of power consumption. They could still be pretty close when looking at it that way.
I still feel if Nvidia can bring their costs in line with AMD's R9 290X I'm still more likely to go with them over AMD. I'm also excited to see if the rumors pan out for the GTX 780 Ti being put ahead of Titan rather than in between the narrow margin that exists today between the 780 and Titan.
How much of the underlying motherboard/chipset/PCIexpress bus performance matters when a higher-end GPU is used for folding @ home? I'm specifically curious if my computer which is a few years old now would be a significant limiting factor if I upgraded to a higher end GPU like a 780 or R9 290X when used for folding @ home?
- CPU: Intel Core i7 860 (2.8 GHz Lynnfield)
- Motherboard: Gigabyte P55M-UD4
- Intel® P55 Express Chipset
- 1 x PCI Express x16 slot, running at x16 | PCI Express 2.0 standard
- Memory: 4x 2GB Corsair XMS3 DDR3 (8-8-8-24 1.65v)
- Power: PC Power & Cooling 750W
The CPU and RAM are relatively unimportant when GPU folding. I GPU fold on 2x P4's with 1GB of RAM on a GTX 460 (x16 lane PCI-E 1.0) and get the same PPD as with a Q6600. I limit myself to a 460 on those Dell Dimension 8400's (P4) machines only because of the 350W Dell PS is not capable of delivering more power that a higher-end card needs.
Your machine should do fine, no matter what video card you use. With that same PS as you have, I run 2x GTX 580's on a Q9550 without problems and those two video card use a lot more power combined than a single 780 or a single Titan.
Your machine should do fine, no matter what video card you use. With that same PS as you have, I run 2x GTX 580's on a Q9550 without problems and those two video card use a lot more power combined than a single 780 or a single Titan.
GTX 780 Price Cuts
Nvidia has also announced that the GTX 780 Ti will be released Nov. 7th at a $700 price point.
AnandTech said:
Nvidia has also announced that the GTX 780 Ti will be released Nov. 7th at a $700 price point.
Woohoo! Thanks for the link; I love the news. I hope Nvidia's confidence in the GTX780 Ti is as good as they're pricing it to be.
How long do you think it might take for the pricing change to trickle down to the retailers even after announcing tomorrow as the new price change?
Never mind, it looks like newegg already dropped their prices!
Thoughts on this card? It looks like their holiday bundle of games is also available.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130918
CougTek
Hairy Aussie
Wow Doug. You've tripled your usual production today. I guess the new card works well. I hope it isn't too noisy.
I'm super excited. It seems to be working well. It's actually quieter than the GTX 560 it replaced. The 560 had the fans running at 60% and it was noisy but I didn't care because it runs while I'm at work. This GTX 780 with the ACX cooler is running at a higher percentage (80%) and it's quieter.
Oddly where I find the 780 card noisier is playing games. The coils make all kinds of odd noises but not when folding.
I'm really considering getting a second one but I don't think my power supply is enough. I plan to put the 560 into my other machine to give me a little more boost.
I notice that the core_17 process does consume a decent amount of CPU while GPU folding. I hope nvidia can make improvements on that down the road.
Oddly where I find the 780 card noisier is playing games. The coils make all kinds of odd noises but not when folding.
I'm really considering getting a second one but I don't think my power supply is enough. I plan to put the 560 into my other machine to give me a little more boost.
I notice that the core_17 process does consume a decent amount of CPU while GPU folding. I hope nvidia can make improvements on that down the road.
I was able to put my GTX 560 Ti 448 core back into service for folding in a different machine. It should maybe give me another 30K PPD but a slight decrease from the 3770K now that a core is dropped offer to account for the GPU.
I added some fans into my case with the GTX 780 as it was producing a bunch of heat. I was able to get the card's temps down to 64C under full load from 70C without adding much noise. I decided to give the 140mm noctua NF-A14 fans a try. They seem to be decent so far.
I added some fans into my case with the GTX 780 as it was producing a bunch of heat. I was able to get the card's temps down to 64C under full load from 70C without adding much noise. I decided to give the 140mm noctua NF-A14 fans a try. They seem to be decent so far.
CougTek
Hairy Aussie
I see that StarBlazer and w1ecb have joined the team. Good job Doug.
I'm thoroughly confused now as to what has happened. I returned home today and my machine is perfectly fine and F@H is running. I'm even seeing results from this machine that were done much earlier in the morning. I've been looking through the F@H logs and I can't determine what happened from 11/8 -> 11/10. It looks like work was done, but I got almost no point or no credit? Every error I grep for has a result "error:NO_ERROR". When I searched on the patterns for "Final credit estimate, 5757.00 points" I see 18 occurrences during this time frame which accounts for the majority of work my system was given. Was I just getting really low point value work or not getting any kind of bonus for some reason?
After looking through the log a bunch, I see many runs on project:8018. I guess maybe F@H needed these to be worked on and they just don't have very many PPD? Is this because I have an option set for "client-type:advanced" for my GPU slot? Should I not use this, or should I be setting it to a value of beta?
I don't see anything particularly wrong in your log. I think you have it right that your drop in points correspond to those p8018 Core_15 projects. only Core_17 projects gives QRB points and that is where the majority of points come from. P8018 just gives base points so your PPD will be far smaller.
There is no guaranty that you will get Core_17 on anything right now so getting a few low scoring Core_15's does not surprise me. Core_17 just recently moved from advanced to general release so there is a much greater demand for them. I suspect that they are running out of Core_17 work. They will make more.
If you want, I can PM you on how to get an Alpha Core_17 project that gives slightly more than normal PPD. The info is not confidential. I don't know how long it will last however but its already been months running.
There is no guaranty that you will get Core_17 on anything right now so getting a few low scoring Core_15's does not surprise me. Core_17 just recently moved from advanced to general release so there is a much greater demand for them. I suspect that they are running out of Core_17 work. They will make more.
If you want, I can PM you on how to get an Alpha Core_17 project that gives slightly more than normal PPD. The info is not confidential. I don't know how long it will last however but its already been months running.
CougTek
Hairy Aussie
I've finally configured my GTX 580 to run the client on the system I've converted from Windows to Linux two weeks ago. That should bring back my production to the level it was in October, when everything ran fine.
It's great to see perform as well as it does now. With the additions of Timwhit and StarBlazer, plus the return of Ddrueding and the rise of Handruin, it now feels more than just a race between P5-133XL and me. Handruin even managed to beat my daily production for the past two or three days.
It's great to see perform as well as it does now. With the additions of Timwhit and StarBlazer, plus the return of Ddrueding and the rise of Handruin, it now feels more than just a race between P5-133XL and me. Handruin even managed to beat my daily production for the past two or three days.
timwhit
Hairy Aussie
Who is StarBlazer?
CougTek
Hairy Aussie
One of Handruin's co-workers who's generously helping our team and the FAH project.
It's going to take me a really long time to catch up to either you or P5 (if ever). I'm happy that I'm able to contribute more and also for the new team members that are also able to contribute. I'm still trying to find other people to get involved in F@H and our team. I wasn't expecting much from my coworker because I didn't know how interested he would be but his numbers are really good! He's got an army of machines that he's using to contribute. I just hope he can sustain it. We chat about it a few times a week and I try to relay any info I can to get his numbers up. Maybe Bozo might join us again some day or even LiamC.
CougTek
Hairy Aussie
Bozo maybe, but from what I remember, the only way LiamC will ever rejoin the team is if gets divorced.
timwhit
Hairy Aussie
For a brief moment today my name showed up at the #1 spot for highest 24 hour avg. It wasn't long and the crown has returned back to the king.
Nice job. Just add a couple more $500 video cards and it will be at the top all the time.