Getting In Shape

[mubs]

Honold, I hear what you're saying and don't diasagree with it. But there's something more, isn't there?

I'm no expert on health and dieting. But what little I do know says that the body has a preference for fat over muscle. When you starve (almost to death) for instance, it will use up muscles first and hang on the the fat till the very end. So while you can lose weight dieting, it will be loss of the wrong stuff. It is better to combine diet (or good eating habits) with exercise, however mild. A sedentary lifestyle is certainly not good, and unfortunately computers have made us more so.

In this particular case anyway, I think it will do Merc a world of good to get out and about. Granted, it's not everybody's cuppa tea, but physical activity has been proven to uplift one's mood, and Merc could use that.

Often a change of circumstances helps too - a fresh start. Maybe a move out of Indiana. Like I want to move outta here. Got any openings in St. Louis??

 

[honold]

I'm no expert on health and dieting. But what little I do know says that the body has a preference for fat over muscle. When you starve (almost to death) for instance, it will use up muscles first and hang on the the fat till the very end. So while you can lose weight dieting, it will be loss of the wrong stuff. It is better to combine diet (or good eating habits) with exercise, however mild. A sedentary lifestyle is certainly not good, and unfortunately computers have made us more so.

it's not an explicit case of 'eat 100% muscle until you lose fat' - or anywhere near that really - but it is true that if you don't exercise in general, especially while dieting, you will tend to lose muscle mass.

i would contend that if you're over 300lbs this is the least of your worries. it was the least of mine too, and i was only 30lbs. i don't look or feel weak.

going from eating a ton to dieting is hard, and going from eating a ton and not exercising to dieting and exercising is even harder. if merc is like most people, i think he would do the straight hardcore diet+exercise bit and fall off the wagon as soon as he hit a slight plateau.

In this particular case anyway, I think it will do Merc a world of good to get out and about. Granted, it's not everybody's cuppa tea, but physical activity has been proven to uplift one's mood, and Merc could use that.

i'm in good health and spirits, and exercising/'getting out' more isn't remotely appealing to me. i think it would be even less appealing to somebody in a down state.

Often a change of circumstances helps too - a fresh start. Maybe a move out of Indiana. Like I want to move outta here. Got any openings in St. Louis??

perhaps i could check with the local belligerent anti-government/corporation chapter

 

[honold]

correct to '30lbs overweight' for you would-be jokers on the weak line

 

[Howell]

When I was in high school the sports trainers used to get mad at me because while I eat well and in good volume, my body fat percentage hovered around 3%. They said they didn't let the wrestlers get that low.

 

[Howell]

They say an exercise routine takes one month to become habit.

They also say that the metabolism begins to slow at 30. If you indeed can not metabolicly lose weight then I might recomend gatric bypass surgery. I would not recommend it for anything other than saving a life.

Merc, you need to find a new purpose in life. Is it possible you are still in denial? Your previous purpose no longer exists. A difference between you and Mubs is that while Mubs is still "bumbling along" you are stuck in the mud. You need to find a direction, any direction, and start moving.

 

[honold]

3% everyday? i'm not buying that. that would be pure minimal essential fat.

a friend who was a bodybuilder and still works out daily / looks great said that pro, competitive bodybuilders would hit 3% on competition day and then go pass out, and that most are around 5+% regularly. and those are nutso pros.

 

[SteveC]

The one time I had my bodyfat measured, it was 4% my freshman year in college, when I wasn't particularly active.

I ran a marathon in '95(?) but I've been on my my special diet since then.

Which one, and what was your time? My dad is training for the D.C. marathon in October. He ran it 10 years ago, when he was 50, and is going to try it again this year.

 

[honold]

at 4% bodyfat you would have an easily visible 6 or 8-pack

how were your measurements taken?

 

[Mercutio]

See above. Waiting to die. That's it.

I sincerely doubt that I have the force of will to maintain any kind of exercise regime. I used to walk with Amy, in the morning, but then I had a single motivating factor (ie Amy's company).

 

[honold]

I sincerely doubt that I have the force of will to maintain any kind of exercise regime. I used to walk with Amy, in the morning, but then I had a single motivating factor (ie Amy's company).

well it sounds like you were unhealthy during the relationship as well :/

exercising requires you to actually do something. dieting requires you to do even less!

 

[SteveC]

at 4% bodyfat you would have an easily visible 6 or 8-pack

I did, and still do, and I wasn't doing any sit-ups at the time.

how were your measurements taken?

By one on the athletic trainers at the school. I don't remember exactly, but I think he took measurements from my leg, stomach, and arm,

 

[honold]

I did, and still do, and I wasn't doing any sit-ups at the time.

lucky you

interesting you mention the sit-ups, i think this is a common line of thought. getting a visible 6-pack is almost exclusively about low body fat, not exercise. the more you exercise the larger the stomach muscles will be, but without low body fat they will remain hidden.

my above-mentioned friend had a hell of a time getting them and lost a fair amount of muscle mass in the process of severe dieting to get them to show up.

 

[Jan Kivar]

Seems that Mercutio hit the 3k on posts. Congrats, and disregard the "lucky bastards" that stay fit&thin with McDonald's-diet...

Jan

 

[CougTek]

3% everyday? i'm not buying that. that would be pure minimal essential fat.

[...]


at 4% bodyfat you would have an easily visible 6 or 8-pack

how were your measurements taken?

You are right and I don't buy that either. The problem is that both Howell's and SteveC's mesurements were taken only on the thickness of the skin above their tricep (that's the most basic and common mesurement for % of body fat). But this mesurement isn't accurate.

I too have a 3% body fat according to the tricep mesurement, but when better and more complete method is used (average of mesurements taken elsewhere on the body, like below the scapula and probably the skin on the stomach too, don't remember well), well my fat % was up to 8%. Still well below average and near athletes, but nowhere near the ethiopian-like 3% I get from the tricep-only method. And please, don't argue that you could have possibly had a body fat % of only 3% or 4%. It is impossible unless you are an olympian or a sick body builder. Remember the guys running the 100m at the olympics? Well that's about 4-5% body fat. None of you has ever looked like that I'm pretty sure. Unless you train like mads, you probably hover around 9-12%, no matter what is the thickness of the skin on your tricep.

People don't stack their fat all at the same place and men generally don't store it in their arms like women do. That's partly why the tricep method gives overly optimistic results.

 

[mubs]

perhaps i could check with the local belligerent anti-government/corporation chapter

Oh, would you, please, honold, please???? You're such a sweet guy!

 

[honold]

Oh, would you, please, honold, please???? You're such a sweet guy!

*ruffles mub's hair*

 

[honold]

should be "mubs'"

 

[Howell]

Which one, and what was your time? My dad is training for the D.C. marathon in October. He ran it 10 years ago, when he was 50, and is going to try it again this year.

It was the 1994 Chickamauga Battlefield Marathon. Course Map.

ABOUT THE COURSE

The Chickamauga Battlefield Marathon course is challenging but not extraordinarily difficult. Numerous runners have qualified for the Boston Marathon on this course, which is USA T&F CERTIFIED. A list of results is provided to the Boston Athletic Association.

The course follows a rural, gentle rolling route over paved roads. It is an out and back course with a double loop in the middle. Approximately 21 miles of the course winds through the Chickamauga Battlefield Park. There are a series of three intermediate hills beginning at Mile 9 and the same hills at Mile 17.

I finished in a time of 4 hours and 50 minutes. Running this race at that time is not the smartest thing I've ever done. I only started it because a friend said he wanted to run it and didn't think he could finish it unless somebody ran it with him. :-? The race was in the second week of November so I had had a full semester of distance racing with the crew to get my body into shape.

Unfortunately, this is not the same thing as being in shape to run. While my heart and lungs were top notch, I had stopped running for training in September. To top it off, the farthest I'd ever run was 7 miles. Stubborness and a high tolerance for pain carried that day, but the following two weeks were achingly difficult enough to persuade me not to try that again.

 

[Howell]

at 4% bodyfat you would have an easily visible 6 or 8-pack

how were your measurements taken?

At the time I would have been playing a couple of hours of soccer every weekday and maybe every other weekend. I did have a visible 8-pack. On-set in fact. I still have a six-pack now except that it's obscured by the wobbly jiggly stuff. I can tell the lower abs need some work 'cause my back keeps getting tight. I must correct a misstatement though. The mind fades in 15 years.

Instead of 3% it was acutally closer to 4.5% and only for maybe a year although I was only tested once. I stumbled across this while throwing away some boxes. As you can see the test was a six point caliper test. I remember him taking the measurements twice and averaging. The test was administered by, at the time, a past and future Olympic, World Games and Pan-American games trainer with 15 years experience. Hopefully I have addressed all of your concerns.

My motivation for bringing it up at all was to address the fact that a naturally fast metabolism can make up for lethargy. However, even a naturally fast metabolism will naturally eventually slow down to the point where a change in lifestyle is necessary.

It is impossible unless you are an olympian or a sick body builder.

I've always wanted to be an Olynpian. Thanks for making my dreams come true. 8)

People don't stack their fat all at the same place and men generally don't store it in their arms like women do. That's partly why the tricep method gives overly optimistic results.

Funny, that. Another comment by the trainer was that I carried my fat in places typical for women rather than men.

All of that has changed now. Previous results are not indicative of future performance.

 

[Mercutio]

I'm not anti-government. I'm anti-George Bush. I'm not anti-corporation, I'm pro-small-business.

 

[timwhit]

Howell, your picture does not work.

 

[honold]

I'm not anti-government. I'm anti-George Bush. I'm not anti-corporation, I'm pro-small-business.

i was talking to mubs

 

[blakerwry]

I think i had a body fat percent estimate of 3-4% when I was in wrestling.. this was a multiple point caliper test.

I did 3 hours of fast paced training 6 days a week. Warmups included over 100 crunches and 100 pushups in addition to leg lifts, stretches, summer salts, cart wheels, duck walks, and "wall" style pushups. Warm downs included the crunches, pushups and leg lifts.

At the end of each practice I would usually have lost about 5 lbs(between 3 and 8) of sweat .

 

[Howell]

Howell, your picture does not work.

Power failure. Should work now.

 

[SteveC]

Which one, and what was your time? My dad is training for the D.C. marathon in October. He ran it 10 years ago, when he was 50, and is going to try it again this year.

It was the 1994 Chickamauga Battlefield Marathon. Course Map.

ABOUT THE COURSE

The Chickamauga Battlefield Marathon course is challenging but not extraordinarily difficult. Numerous runners have qualified for the Boston Marathon on this course, which is USA T&F CERTIFIED. A list of results is provided to the Boston Athletic Association.

The course follows a rural, gentle rolling route over paved roads. It is an out and back course with a double loop in the middle. Approximately 21 miles of the course winds through the Chickamauga Battlefield Park. There are a series of three intermediate hills beginning at Mile 9 and the same hills at Mile 17.

I finished in a time of 4 hours and 50 minutes. Running this race at that time is not the smartest thing I've ever done. I only started it because a friend said he wanted to run it and didn't think he could finish it unless somebody ran it with him. :-? The race was in the second week of November so I had had a full semester of distance racing with the crew to get my body into shape.

Unfortunately, this is not the same thing as being in shape to run. While my heart and lungs were top notch, I had stopped running for training in September. To top it off, the farthest I'd ever run was 7 miles. Stubborness and a high tolerance for pain carried that day, but the following two weeks were achingly difficult enough to persuade me not to try that again.

The only reason my dad ran it the first time was because his cousin had run it the previous year, and of course, he had to be his time. He finished in about 4:45 (45 minutes faster than his cousin, even though he's 10 years younger than my dad). This year, he's running it with some of his ex-Marine friends from his shooting team. The course is pretty nice, and goes by most of the monuments in D.C.
I've only run a couple of 5 miles races in junior high, before I decided I didn't like running anymore. I don't think I would ever try to run a marathon.

 

[CougTek]

Instead of 3% it was acutally closer to 4.5% and only for maybe a year although I was only tested once.

According to that paper you linked, one 14-years-old-Howell would have fitted three times, or close to, into one Mercutio.

 

[Groltz]

I just got back from taking the first phase test for the job of Corrections Officer in a neighboring town. All it consisted of was typing ability. The minimum scoring grade was 25wpm. (I did 39wpm, not bad for a hunt & peck guy with no training)

On the 24th of this month I have to do the "agility tests" phase. This consists of a timed 1.5 mile run, pushups, and situps.
The situps shouldn't be a problem, I've been doing ab work for a couple months now and am reasonably tight there.
The pushups might be a bit of a challenge. I haven't lifted weights since '96 and have never been very strong in doing them. Still, the requirements don't look too steep.
The 1.5 mile run, I dunno. As of today I still run for 90 minutes on the elliptical trainer about 5 or 6 times each week. Having done so now regularly since New Years Day 2002, I'm barely breathing above idle after a 90 minute session. How this translates to track running I have no idea. I haven't run on a track since 1986. :dunno:

Here is a scan of the requirements ditto I was given.

 

[SteveC]

Instead of 3% it was acutally closer to 4.5% and only for maybe a year although I was only tested once.

According to that paper you linked, one 14-years-old-Howell would have fitted three times, or close to, into one Mercutio.

Or a 25-year-old SteveC. I weigh less than Howell did at age 14 (110 lbs.), hence my original post.

 

[Howell]

I assume "Corrections Officer" means working in a detention center? Use the Arnold impression for bonus points.

What I would recommend to prepare for the pushups:
Get a five pound weight and with one hand lift the wieght from your side to straight out in front of you palm to the inside(arm parallel to the ground or hand slightly above the shoulder) for ten reps. Switch hands and repeat. Now lift the weight with the starting hand from your side out to the side palm down(arm parallel to the ground or hand slightly above the shoulder) for ten reps. Switch hands and repeat. Try not to use momentum to your lifting advantage.
Repeat the whole thing twice.

Do this routine for three days before getting into the pushups.

The last time I started working out with pushups I injured my shoulder and couldn't do them again for two weeks. You may already have a good enough base from the arm swinging on the eliptical trainer.

With proper will-power you should be able to do 10-15 pushups without training at all.
--------------------------
You could roughly determine how fast you can run. Estimate or measure your stride length and then count elliptical strides for some period of time.

 

[Howell]

Or a 25-year-old SteveC. I weigh less than Howell did at age 14 (110 lbs.), hence my original post.

How tall are you Steve?

 

[SteveC]

I'm about 5' 6".

 

[Mercutio]

According to that paper you linked, one 14-years-old-Howell would have fitted three times, or close to, into one Mercutio.

Iwish I knew what the HELL to do about that fact.

 

[CougTek]

I wish I knew what the HELL to do about that fact.

Well, trying to get down to two Howell instead of being at three Howell could be an idea...

 

[timwhit]

I assume "Corrections Officer" means working in a detention center? Use the Arnold impression for bonus points.

What I would recommend to prepare for the pushups:
Get a five pound weight and with one hand lift the wieght from your side to straight out in front of you palm to the inside(arm parallel to the ground or hand slightly above the shoulder) for ten reps. Switch hands and repeat. Now lift the weight with the starting hand from your side out to the side palm down(arm parallel to the ground or hand slightly above the shoulder) for ten reps. Switch hands and repeat. Try not to use momentum to your lifting advantage.
Repeat the whole thing twice.

Do this routine for three days before getting into the pushups.

The last time I started working out with pushups I injured my shoulder and couldn't do them again for two weeks. You may already have a good enough base from the arm swinging on the eliptical trainer.

With proper will-power you should be able to do 10-15 pushups without training at all.
--------------------------
You could roughly determine how fast you can run. Estimate or measure your stride length and then count elliptical strides for some period of time.

I was doing pushups everyday last summer and would just do as many as I could and then go to bed each night. The first time I did them the most I could do was 19. I got up to about 40 after a month or so, then I stopped doing them. I should really start that again.

 

[timwhit]

I just got back from taking the first phase test for the job of Corrections Officer in a neighboring town. All it consisted of was typing ability. The minimum scoring grade was 25wpm. (I did 39wpm, not bad for a hunt & peck guy with no training)

On the 24th of this month I have to do the "agility tests" phase. This consists of a timed 1.5 mile run, pushups, and situps.
The situps shouldn't be a problem, I've been doing ab work for a couple months now and am reasonably tight there.
The pushups might be a bit of a challenge. I haven't lifted weights since '96 and have never been very strong in doing them. Still, the requirements don't look too steep.
The 1.5 mile run, I dunno. As of today I still run for 90 minutes on the elliptical trainer about 5 or 6 times each week. Having done so now regularly since New Years Day 2002, I'm barely breathing above idle after a 90 minute session. How this translates to track running I have no idea. I haven't run on a track since 1986. :dunno:

Here is a scan of the requirements ditto I was given.

I think the best way to estimate a time is to go to a track and run six laps on it. A mile and a half is really easy. Junior year in high school I ran a mile in 4:44. But, I was in cross-country and track so I was running 30-40 miles per week 9 months a year. The best time on that sheet is 15:17 which is dog slow. That is greater than a 10 minute mile pace. Back in the day I could run 3 miles at a 5:30/mile pace, which isn't that fast. If you can do 90 minutes on the elliptical trainer without breathing heavily I wouldn't think running 1.5 miles will be that hard for you. But, before the 24th I would get outside and just do some running, because it might use different muscles than the elliptical machine.

 

[Groltz]

Corrections Officer = Jailer, I believe it could be called. Or in old UK english, Gaoler.

Tomorrow I'm going to go try the track with my wife timing me and see what I can do. I agree with Tim that my elliptical likely isn't training the exact leg muscles as used in actual running. In any case, I at least know that I have good lungs from what I have been doing. Today the elliptical's odometer show me as having run 10.52 miles in 95 minutes.
I followed that with 4 sets of pushups at max reps and 4 sets of situps at 20 reps each following a first set of maxing out (25). I normally run almost every day so I'll just try to keep that up until the 24th. Probably not run, or go very light on the 23rd. The pushups and situps every other day until then.

All that and I'll probably still get blown out during the written and oral testing afterward. It seems there is quite a bit of competition and candidates typically don't score a job on their first try.

I'll save the A.S. impersonations until after I have paychecks coming in.
:wink:

 

[Howell]

Good luck on the training.

 

[Groltz]

I think the best way to estimate a time is to go to a track and run six laps on it. A mile and a half is really easy. Junior year in high school I ran a mile in 4:44. But, I was in cross-country and track so I was running 30-40 miles per week 9 months a year. The best time on that sheet is 15:17 which is dog slow. That is greater than a 10 minute mile pace. Back in the day I could run 3 miles at a 5:30/mile pace, which isn't that fast. If you can do 90 minutes on the elliptical trainer without breathing heavily I wouldn't think running 1.5 miles will be that hard for you. But, before the 24th I would get outside and just do some running, because it might use different muscles than the elliptical machine.

Finally got a chance to try the track this evening.

First time running on a track since 1986. Earlier today I had done my usual 95 minute run on the elliptical so my legs were already kind of tired.

Anyway, I still managed to do 6 laps/1.5 miles in 13 minutes 39 seconds.

The time needed for the maximum score on the agility test is 16 minutes 37 seconds or less.

 

[CougTek]

Not surprising that you could beat the best time indicated since you were already in relatively good shape. I wonder what running has in common with agility though.

Now it's push-ups time for you. 23 isn't that hard. Many average people make 40 or 50 regularly. You too are able to I'm sure.

 

[honold]

my roommate can pretty much do infinite pushups. he actually stops due to being winded, not muscle fatigue.