headphone recommendations

[Prof.Wizard]

I'm starting med school in the fall

Good luck!

 

[Prof.Wizard]

If you'd go back and read this very thread, you'd find that Bose's highest-end speakers, the 901s, are trashed just as their low-end crap.

Instead of doing this I would rather read the subjective reviews done by real owners...
http://www.audioreview.com/PRD_120876_1594crx.aspx
When I first read it I was amazed to see the deviation of opinions! Some people give them 1 out of 5 grades, others 5/5...

Conclusion: You can't always trust board opinions.

 

[Mercutio]

I've come to the happy conclusion that you enjoy being a fool (no offense to other members so named).

Here it is, Mercutio's Second Law of StorageForum: Take a position contrary to Professor Wizard if you want to be right.

(the first law, for those who have forgotten: The interest in a topic can be determined by the ratio of posts to reads. Very good topics tend to have ratios better than 1:10)

 

[Prof.Wizard]

Here it is, Mercutio's Second Law of StorageForum: Take a position contrary to Professor Wizard if you want to be right.

That's a load of $&i+. Now stop being gay just because you're out of arguments. If you don't know how to defend yourself, your ideas, and your opinions abstain from posting in public forums.

(the first law, for those who have forgotten: The interest in a topic can be determined by the ratio of posts to reads. Very good topics tend to have ratios better than 1:10)

You're so lame! This hasn't been my thread, smart one, it has been Adcadet's. You have indirectly offended the wrong person by this.
However you're right: Flame wars are never interesting for non-participants.
But I didn't want it to become like this. Actually I started posting by a question... It was trigger-happy CouchTest.

 

[Mercutio]

PeeWee, I've made every argument I can make on the subject. I've linked to *objective reviews and measurements of Bose equipment*. I've stated my subjective opinion about Bose, a subjective opinion of the equipment in question, and several other members here have made similar statements.

You're the one who is claiming, despite qualitative and quantitative evidence to the contrary, that Bose makes some kind of good product.

The only support for your own argument that you've managed to provide are subjective reviews based on no qualification beyond "I paid for one".

You're right. I have run out of arguments. But at least I made some to begin with.

Here's one final piece of advice: Just because two products have similar costs, doesn't mean those products are in any way comparable. Something that is more expensive is not necessarily better than something that is not.

 

[CougTek]

Now stop being gay just because you're out of arguments. If you don't know how to defend yourself, your ideas, and your opinions abstain from posting in public forums.

[...]

It was trigger-happy CouchTest.

Yet you're the one dropping to name-calling level.

And the reason why I was blunt with you was because of the arrogancy yet blatant ignorance that you displayed in your first Bose-loving post. Face it, you don't know Jack-shit about audio. And you were wrong too in the analog vs digital thread. Listen, I'm a professional in electronics. I have studied electronic audio signal and I have even designed a few speaker sets. Others here have too...just not you. As for the audio quality, I trust (and you should too) Gary above others (no offence to the others). Now all those nice folks have told you the same thing : Bose speakers are overpriced crap. Now get it past your inflated ego mind shield and down your nut shell.

Or keep posting and make us feel better about ourselves, knowing there is always worst than our very own self. I'm sure I'm not the only one here hoping never to be sick in Greece or Italy, by fear of stumbling on you as doctor. The way you jump to conclusion and take position on something way before having acquired enough info on the subject is fearsome for your future patients.

 

[Prof.Wizard]

Yet you're the one dropping to name-calling level.

Eeh?

And the reason why I was blunt with you was because of the arrogancy yet blatant ignorance that you displayed in your first Bose-loving post.

Blah blah blah...

Face it, you don't know Jack-shit about audio. And you were wrong too in the analog vs digital thread. Listen, I'm a professional in electronics. I have studied electronic audio signal and I have even designed a few speaker sets.

Too bad BOSE turned you down on that work offer.

Others here have too...just not you. As for the audio quality, I trust (and you should too) Gary above others (no offence to the others). Now all those nice folks have told you the same thing : Bose speakers are overpriced crap. Now get it past your inflated ego mind shield and down your nut shell.

Erm, the topic was headphones last time I checked. WAIT!!! .........still is!

Or keep posting and make us feel better about ourselves, knowing there is always worst than our very own self.

It's you that posts his photo as an Avatar, not me.

I'm sure I'm not the only one here hoping never to be sick in Greece or Italy, by fear of stumbling on you as doctor. The way you jump to conclusion and take position on something way before having acquired enough info on the subject is fearsome for your future patients.

Don't worry, all this "blood boiling" will probably kill you by a stroke sitting on your desk in front of your PC before you even set foot in Europe.

 

[honold]

as an outsider looking in on the hijacked aspects of this thread, i regret to admit that it is all very bad looking

 

[e_dawg]

I'm sure I'm not the only one here hoping never to be sick in Greece or Italy, by fear of stumbling on you as doctor. The way you jump to conclusion and take position on something way before having acquired enough info on the subject is fearsome for your future patients.

Okay, that's not fair CT. PW's subjective preferences and perceived lack of audio expertise should not automatically warrant labelling of him as a bad doctor. Let's try to keep the personal judgements out of this. (I know I was guilty assuming PW doesn't know anything about business myself)

 

[e_dawg]

BTW, I'm not singling you out, CT. I know it takes two (or more) to tango.

 

[CityK]

While I probably should have just let this thread die, I resurrect it for the following (off topic) curiousities:

I wonder how many of you know that Canada is one of the great speaker producing nations?...

I do! And what you said about taking advantage of the NRC is so true. My first pair of speakers were some Mirage SM-1's that I got second hand. Granted just beginner speakers, they certainly were nice at the time. The Mirage stuff I have auditioned in recent years is truly phenomenial....its funny, you get so used to listening to crappy ass speakers and then you go listen to something of quality and it blows you away.

It's rare that I meet anyone that's even heard of B&W speakers.

Your kidding me, right? B&W are excellent speakers. A couple of years ago, their 801s (I believe that was the model) were the recording house standard (if ever such a thing existed).

I had a pair of DM301s (or was it DM320s?, can't remember), and they were great, albeit a little too large for my liking. I handed them off a couple of years ago, and they have found a permanent home with my sister, who think's their the cats meow....however, I somehow doubt (no, make that I truly know) she is unable to appreciate their quality.

The 601's you mentioned were certainly nice too, however, I kind of think that there are some better options available in the same price range.

On a very limited listening experience, I have been quite impressed with KEF bookshelves too.

CK

PS. e_dawg, where are you doing your MBA? Rotmans, Shuiler, Ivey, Mac, Queens....???

 

[Handruin]

I believe PSB's are made in Canada and I love the sounds of the pair my father has. (don't recall the model #)

I've also heard of B&W, they make the funny looking spireled seashell speaker cabinet right? I've never listed to a pair of their speakers, but I've heard good things about them. (are they made in canada too?)

 

[CityK]

England

 

[CityK]

Dang, I got distracted and hit submit somehow. Yep, they make those snail looking things....they look ridiculous. Kind of saddens me that they would produce something like that....I haven't paid attention to audio stuff for a while, so I have no idea what kind of reception they are getting.

CK

PS. Google is your friend Doug :wink:

 

[Mickey]

Those must be the Nautilus line from B&W. I guess I must not know very many people that care very much about audio equipment. :wink: The usual brands recommended are just those that are available from the Good Guys or Fry's, or the Walmart HTiB sets.

Of course, I'm nowhere near an audiophile, either. The B&W's I got from the local shop to put together the HT, piecemeal as they went on clearance.

CityK, the reviews I've seen think quite highly of the Nautilus line. Then again, for the price they *better* sound good!

 

[e_dawg]

It's rare that I meet anyone that's even heard of B&W speakers.

Your kidding me, right? B&W are excellent speakers. A couple of years ago, their 801s (I believe that was the model) were the recording house standard (if ever such a thing existed).

Thank you for bringing that up. I forgot to reply to Mickey's comment originally. Yes, B&W I would have likened to the... uh, BMW of speakers. Everyone knows they're good -- even the newbie audiophiles. Indeed, the Matrix 801's were the official studio monitor of the EMI Abbey Road studio, among others (Decca, DG, probably the BBC, which used the legendary Rogers LS3/5a for years). Some more Candiana: did you know that the Canadian-made Camber 3.0ti was selected as the official studio monitor for CBC recording studios across Canada, resulting in Camber adding the /SM suffix to the x.0ti lineup to capitalize on that fact.

I had a pair of DM301s (or was it DM320s?, can't remember), and they were great, albeit a little too large for my liking. I handed them off a couple of years ago, and they have found a permanent home with my sister, who think's their the cats meow....however, I somehow doubt (no, make that I truly know) she is unable to appreciate their quality.

DM302, actually, me thinks. I was thinking about getting some low-priced speakers in that range. I looked at the DM302, but the Mission 731's were better. Then the guys at the old Compuserve Audio forums turned me onto NHT's. I was set to get the NHT SuperOne's, but then I auditioned them against the Paradigm Reference/20's on tube gear and the R20's won. And then I stumbled across a set of NHT 1.3A's on clearance at a big box electronics store in Montreal and was blown away by their sonic value. While they may not have been better overall than the R20's, they were cheaper, had a piano lacquer finish, and had such an addictive focus to their soundstage that I was hooked.

The 601's you mentioned were certainly nice too, however, I kind of think that there are some better options available in the same price range.

That's what I felt as well when I auditioned them shortly after buying my NHT's. While the NHT's present perhaps a somewhat small, excessively focussed soundstage, the B&W's I found lacked focus.

PS. e_dawg, where are you doing your MBA? Rotmans, Shuiler, Ivey, Mac, Queens....???

Mac. Ah, the smell of steeltown. Nothing like the Hammer on a muggy summer's day. I'm working in downtown T.O. these days. Whereabouts are you?

 

[CityK]

I used to follow audio stuff (albeit never caught the disease e_dawg confesses too). I really don't think it is a very healthy hobby or interest...you begin to start coveting frivalious things a little too much...same thing applies with computer hardware, but at least with computers some utility may exist...although certainly not necessarily.

CK

 

[CityK]

Sorry, didn't see your post when I started e_dawg.

did you know that the Canadian-made Camber...

I seem to recall something about like that. I think I read some article by Andrew Marshall once going over the story...but its all fuzzy.

Whereabouts are you?

Not in school. Unemployed by self choice, but starting to get the itch to be back on to Bay St. again. Just sat for the CFA last Saturday, so I'm kind of relaxing right now after a lot of hard work.

CK

 

[e_dawg]

The 601's you mentioned were certainly nice too, however, I kind of think that there are some better options available in the same price range.

That's what I felt as well when I auditioned them shortly after buying my NHT's. While the NHT's present perhaps a somewhat small, excessively focussed soundstage, the B&W's I found lacked focus.

I suspect the Kevlar woofer could be the problem. I noticed that the DM601's were pretty forward in the mids (another reason I didn't get them)... could be that the kevlar lacks a little internal damping relative to traditional poly woofers, getting a little peaky just south of 1 kHz. This brings the soundstage forward and affects the soundstaging.

This is not to say that they are not good speakers, mind you. Apologies to Mickey for criticizing his speakers I just love to "talk shop" about audio is all.

 

[CityK]

Yeah Mickey, your speakers su....I mean are awesome :wink:

So NHT 's are that good are they? I don't think I've ever heard a set ... something about the name sets me off though ... can't stop thinking about cash registers (ala NCR)

CK

 

[e_dawg]

They're good, but not that good. If the 1.3A's weren't on clearance, I would have bought the R20's. NHT's have their strengths and flaws; it's a question of which characteristics are important to you and which ones are not. Dynamics, bass extension, and a lack of warmth are weak points IMO. But they do have a pure, flat midrange, decent treble, and that seductive focus. This focus, IMO, has a halo effect on the rest of the speaker, distracting the listener from the flaws. If you've ever heard speakers with that kind of focus, you will know exactly what I'm talking about.

In Canada, at least, I would say NHT's are not the best value when compared against some of the homebred competition unless they're on sale. Nevertheless, Ken Kantor, NHT's chief designer, is one of today's speaker design celebs, along with John Tchilingurian of Energy, Ian Paisley of Mirage, and Jim Thiel of well, Thiel. He knows how to design a good speaker.

Speaking of Thiel, his CS2.5's (or something around that model number; I can't remember) are easily the best speakers in terms of dynamics that I've heard. Run them full-range with a sub low-passed below 70 Hz and you have a system that can reproduce the dynamics of a live performance (maybe not the acutal volume, but the transients and attack).

 

[Mickey]

This is not to say that they are not good speakers, mind you. Apologies to Mickey for criticizing his speakers I just love to "talk shop" about audio is all.

*blinks* It was your opinion. What do I have to get annoyed about?

Besides, what counts is *I* like them, since I'm the one listening to them (and they do sound nice in this room). I have noticed they need to be cranked up a bit to really sound good, though. I just do so when no one else is home.

 

[timwhit]

I love my NHT 2.5i's, and I listened to a lot of speakers before I chose them. I was in at least five different home theater stores before I decided on them.

In regards to Bose. I have owned two different pairs of Bose speakers. The 201's which are low end bookshelf speakers and the 701's which are $700 towers. The 201's would be ok speakers if they had cost half as much as they did. The 701's would never be good speakers...ever. Bose uses paper cones which do not sound good. They distort quite easily at higher volume as well. Prof Wizard, do you own any Bose speakers? Are you just talking out of your ass? Have you ever been to a high end audio store to listen to some real audio gear?

 

[Handruin]

Dang, I got distracted and hit submit somehow. Yep, they make those snail looking things....they look ridiculous. Kind of saddens me that they would produce something like that....I haven't paid attention to audio stuff for a while, so I have no idea what kind of reception they are getting.

CK

PS. Google is your friend Doug :wink:

I might have to look into google some day. Three people on this have told me to use google now...

 

[e_dawg]

Nah, what's really happening is that these people work for Kleiner Perkins or Seqouia Capital to encourage the use of google amongst the opinion leaders of their respective social groups. Just happens that there is a large percentage of them on these boards.

I'm kidding, of course... (well, mostly)

 

[e_dawg]

Aha! Just as I suspected: the DM601's have a slight hump between 600 Hz - 1 kHz. Use a little parametric EQ(*1) (-1.5 dB @ 750 Hz) and you're good to go.

This frequency response graph was taken from http://www.hometheatermag.com/showarchives.cgi?16:2

Check out the article. The DM601's and the rest of the B&W HT system received lots of praise.

*1: This is a lot easier said than done with audio speakers (while it is ridiculously easy for computer speakers, since Winamp has a wonderful parametric EQ plug-in), as most standard 10-band EQ's are both non-parametric and do not have center frequencies at 750 Hz. Home audio parametric EQ's are both hard to find and expensive.

 

[e_dawg]

Just sat for the CFA last Saturday, so I'm kind of relaxing right now after a lot of hard work.

When you say "sat", you mean you wrote it, right? Yeah, I heard the CFA is tough. I also heard there were multiple hard tests or modules, too -- not just one, like the CA where only the UFE's are killer.

 

[Mickey]

Interesting graph, e_dawg. I'm only just beginning to understand what I'm supposed to look for in those plots.

I've actually never used an EQ. Maybe I'm lucky my ears aren't fussy enough yet.

 

[e_dawg]

A basic 10-band graphic EQ is pretty cheap and useful; I recommend you pick one up -- even if only to learn. Frequency response is the most important measurable and user-correctable characteristic of one's audio system. While a parametric EQ is ideal, even a graphic EQ does a decent job at fixing response problems.

For example, using just a 10-band graphic EQ with your DM601's, you could achieve the following frequency response (top curve modified by hand):

That was a quick and dirty simulation based on the following adjustments using the typical center frequencies found on a 10-band GEQ: +2 dB at 60 Hz, +1 dB at 250 Hz, +1 dB at 500 Hz, -1.5 dB at 1 kHz, +1 dB at 2 kHz.

Your two choices are probably the AudioSource model here or the TEAC model around the same price range.