How do I turn this system into a HTPC?

[Stereodude]

DDR2 is not GDDR4, or GDDR3. It's slow as a lazy wombat. It's the same as normal PC RAM.

It's no different in terms of BW vs. MHz though. Sure they never sold it 1gHz speeds, but it's not too different. My point still stands.

The useful thing to have done is to counsel him on the best bang for buck.

He had already ordered it when I pointed it out.

 

[Santilli]

"Today, the most advanced implementation of the audio-over-HDMI feature is available with ATI Radeon HD 4800/4600/4500 series cards. The integrated audio core from Realtek can output 7.1 audio (192kHz/24bits per sample) with a bit rate of 6.144Mbps in AC3, DTS, Dolby True HD, DTS HD and LPCM formats. Nvidia’s GeForce 8, 9 and GTX 200 series are limited by the capabilities of the S/PDIF interface and support 5.1 Dolby Digital, 5.1 DTS, and 2-channel LPCM. The integrated graphics cores Intel GMA 4500 and GeForce 8300 can output 7.1 LPCM audio, too."

I've got 6 speakers, center 2 front and back, and a sub. 5.1 sounds pretty good.

"Considering the current state of the market, we’d recommend you to purchase a discrete sound card that has a HDMI output and supports as many standards as possible or install a Radeon HD 4000 series graphics card."

I've got the Xplosion Azutech(SP?) card installed. Seems to output at 5.1 through the S/PDIF interface.

The 4850 consumes twice as much power as my 9600GT: 61 vs. 110 Watts...

HMMM. HQV wise the 9600 GT looks great, to p of the class. not as good at HD nosie reduction, by 10 points on 25 as 4800.ATI’s
Radeon HD 4800/4600 and Nvidia’s GeForce 9600 GPUs deliver the best image quality in the Silicon Optix HQV test (118 out of 130 points).

The quality of HD video playback on today’s PCs is also questionable, according to the Silicon Optix HQV HD. ATI’s Radeon HD 4800/4600/4500 cards deliver an ideal picture (100 out of 100 points) whereas ATI’s Radeon HD 3800/3600 and Nvidia’s GeForce 9800/9600 are very close to that (90 out of 100 points).
The most advanced HTPC-ready graphics cards in terms of gaming performance:

* ATI Radeon HD 4850. It ensures nearly ideal playback of Blu-ray, DVD and HD DVD and can transfer 7.1 audio via HDMI, which makes it a perfect choice for a high-performance HTPC. Alas, its peak power consumption of 110W may prove to be too high.
* Palit GeForce 9800 GTX+. This card boasts high-quality reproduction of Blu-ray, DVD and HD DVD formats. Palit Microsystems reduced its form-factor while its peak power consumption is 76.1W. All this makes it a good choice for a HTPC. Unfortunately, GeForce 8/9/GTX200 series GPUs offer limited support for audio-over-HDMI.

The most economical HTPC card:

* The ATI Radeon HD 4550 plays Blu-ray, DVD and HD DVD with almost ideal quality. It can output 7.1 audio over HDMI and consumes a mere 18.5W at the peak. It can thus be cooled passively and produce no noise whatsoever.


I am having a bit of a problem with skipped frames, and lip sync. Thanks to this article, I think part of that is due to running at the wrong resolutions, and, the GPU having to convert up or down from the ideal resolution for DVD, or HD.

Later today I'm going to try running the box at the DVD (720x576 for PAL regions and 720x480 for NTSC regions) don't know which one I'm in????, and see if it cures a bit of the lip sync, and, frame dropping.

Keep in mind the large VRAM was for a specific game, Quake 4, to play on Ultra High settings, and, as I stated earlier, it works with anti-aliasing set no higher then 4x.

What's Newegg's policy on returning video cards????

 

[Handruin]

What's Newegg's policy on returning video cards????

Last I remember it's a 15% restocking fee. I returned a BFG card a while back and asked if they would wave the fee if I bought something of equal or greater cost and they did.

 

[Stereodude]

I am having a bit of a problem with skipped frames, and lip sync. Thanks to this article, I think part of that is due to running at the wrong resolutions, and, the GPU having to convert up or down from the ideal resolution for DVD, or HD.

Later today I'm going to try running the box at the DVD (720x576 for PAL regions and 720x480 for NTSC regions) don't know which one I'm in????, and see if it cures a bit of the lip sync, and, frame dropping.

What software are you using, and what's the OS?

 

[Pradeep]

It's no different in terms of BW vs. MHz though. Sure they never sold it 1gHz speeds, but it's not too different. My point still stands.

Let's take this one slowly. DDR2-800 is capable of 6.4GB/sec per 128 bit channel. So two channels gets you 12.8 GB/sec of bandwidth.

GDDR5 is capable of twice the bandwidth of GDDR3, which is itself twice as fast as DDR2 SDRAM. At any particularl bus width.

If your point was that DDR2 is in anyway comparable to GDDR5 then your point has fallen over.

 

[Pradeep]

Greg, if you do swap then you want to look at the 4770 which uses about 50W. It shares the same UVD 2 and HDMI audio output capabilities as the 4850 (the article was done before the 4770 was released).

 

[Pradeep]

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&DEPA=0&Order=BESTMATCH&Description=4770

GDDR5 is 4x faster than DDR2, if they allow you to upgrade you will be set for a few years to come. You could also be CPU limited.

 

[Santilli]

"What software are you using, and what's the OS?"
XP Pro:
Media Player Classic, PowerDVD 5.0, Nero Showtime 2. Testing at 720 x 480, and, so far, Media Player Classic is not skipping or loosing sync.

 

[Stereodude]

GDDR5 is capable of twice the bandwidth of GDDR3, which is itself twice as fast as DDR2 SDRAM. At any particular bus width.

No it's not. GDDR3 is not any faster per MHz than DDR2 SDRAM. GDDR4 is not any faster per MHz than GDDR3. GDDR5 (which should probably really be called GQDR) has 2x higher bandwidth per clock than DDR, DDR2, DDR3, GDDR3, & GDDR4 memory.

The main difference between DDR, DDR2, DDR3, GDDR3, and GDDR4 memory is the voltage and MHz speed at which they run. They all however are still Double Data Rate memory sending out data only twice per clock.

 

[Stereodude]

GDDR5 is 4x faster than DDR2

No it's not! It's only 2x faster per clock cycle than DDR2 of the same bit width.

 

[Pradeep]

US is NTSC land (Region 1 DVDs).

 

[Stereodude]

"What software are you using, and what's the OS?"
XP Pro:
Media Player Classic, PowerDVD 5.0, Nero Showtime 2. Testing at 720 x 480, and, so far, Media Player Classic is not skipping or loosing sync.

I'm not sure exactly why you're having problems. I'd use MPC-HC instead. You should probably also use VMR9 for the output. The rest of your programs are quite out of date, though I'm not sure if that's causing your problem or not.

My last HTPC had a less capable AMD CPU (2800+) with an AGP nVidia 6600GT with XP Pro and got perfect 1080i60, 720p60, & DVD playback, though I wasn't using S-video out. I used DVI.

 

[Pradeep]

Do you deny that the ATI 4770 has a memory bandwidth of 51.2 GB/sec compared to your 2 GB 9600 with 12.8 GB/sec? 3200 MHz effective versus 800 MHz effective.

 

[Stereodude]

Yes, because your understanding of Double Data Rate memory is all wrong. The 4770 has 128bit GDDR5 running at 800MHz. The 2GB 9600GT Greg owns has 256bit GDDR2 at 800MHz.

They both have the same theoretical memory bandwidth of 51.2GB/sec.

 

[Pradeep]

Please show your calculation for achieving 51.2 GB/sec from 256 bit DDR2 SDRAM (PC-6400).

 

[Santilli]

I'm not sure exactly why you're having problems. I'd use MPC-HC instead. You should probably also use VMR9 for the output. The rest of your programs are quite out of date, though I'm not sure if that's causing your problem or not.

My last HTPC had a less capable AMD CPU (2800+) with an AGP nVidia 6600GT with XP Pro and got perfect 1080i60, 720p60, & DVD playback, though I wasn't using S-video out. I used DVI.[/QU

Problem with this 9600 GT is it did not come with a composite out spliter. I have one, but, don't have the cables that would allow hooking it up in that format.

Plus, I don't have a composite video cable, only sound cables, monster mainly, for hooking up other sound devices. Do you have a link to where I could find an optical cable, and, composite splitter that would work with Nvidia cards?

The only cable that came with the card was the S-video cable. The only inputs on this TV are the three wire composite, and, the s-video.

So far in testing, the Media Player Classic is giving flawless performance at
720x480, with no lip sync problems. The picture is CRYSTAL clear, and, increasing resolution does not appear to increase visual quality. Maybe it's source limited?

 

[Pradeep]

PC2-6400 sorry

 

[Mercutio]

TechArp's GPU Comparison guide says the 4750 (no numbers on the 4770 yet) has a theoretical max of 51.2GBps while the 9600GT, which has a 900MHz internal bus, tops out at 57.6GBps.

I'm not saying their numbers are perfect but that's my standard reference for graphics card stuff.

 

[Stereodude]

Please show your calculation for achieving 51.2 GB/sec from 256 bit DDR2 SDRAM (PC-6400).

OK, but there's no black magic.

DDR2 on 2GB 9600GT
800MHz * 2 * 256 / 8 = 51.2GB/sec

GDDR5 on ATI 4770
800MHz * 4 * 128 / 8 = 51.2GB/sec

 

[Pradeep]

Composite red white and yellow or component red green blue?

You are display limited with the TV. No need to upsample as that just introduces artifacts.

 

[Santilli]

Composite red white and yellow or component red green blue?

You are display limited with the TV. No need to upsample as that just introduces artifacts.

Composite red white and yellow. The ATI adapters are red green blue.

Don't know what kind of video cable to use with the ATI adapter, either.

 

[Stereodude]

Composite red white and yellow. The ATI adapters are red green blue.

Don't know what kind of video cable to use with the ATI adapter, either.

The ATI adapters are for component video, not composite.

 

[Pradeep]

The calculation for dual channel DDR2 is 400 MHz * 256 / 8 = 12.8 GB/sec.

 

[Santilli]

Thanks. Looks like I need a new TV, or just be happy with the current output, that is very clear...

 

[Pradeep]

Once you do get an HDTV it will reveal the limitations of SD sources. Until then, enjoy.

 

[Stereodude]

The calculation for dual channel DDR2 is 400 MHz * 256 / 8 = 12.8 GB/sec.

No it's not!

First of all the 2GB 9600GT has DDR2 running at 800MHz. It's not running at 400MHz. Second DDR2 memory send out data twice per clock, just like DDR, just like GDDR2, just like GDDR3, & just like GDDR4 which you conveniently left out.

It's still 800MHz * 2 * 256 / 8 = 51.2GB/sec

 

[sdbardwick]

DDR2 (PC2-6400)
200 MHz memory clock
400 MHz memory bus i/o clock
800 MegaTransfers/Second (double data rate - this is where everybody gets confused)

800MT / 8 bits per byte=100MB/Sec per pin (bit)
64 bits per standard DDR2 channel * 100MB/Sec = 6,400 MB/Sec
Double channel (128 bits) =12,800 MB/Sec
Quad channel (256 bits) = 25,600 MB/Sec

 

[ddrueding]

Think you used enough font there, Butch?

 

[Stereodude]

DDR2 (PC2-6400)
200 MHz memory clock
400 MHz memory bus i/o clock
800 MegaTransfers/Second (double data rate - this is where everybody gets confused)

800MT / 8 bits per byte=100MB/Sec per pin (bit)
64 bits per standard DDR2 channel * 100MB/Sec = 6,400 MB/Sec
Double channel (128 bits) =12,800 MB/Sec
Quad channel (256 bits) = 25,600 MB/Sec

Yes, but we're not talking about DDR2 PC2-6400 memory. We're talking about 800MHz DDR2 that's 256bit wide on a 2GB 9600GT card made by Sparkle. link

My math is correct for the card in question.

 

[Stereodude]

Think you used enough font there, Butch?

Nope...

 

[Pradeep]

TechArp's GPU Comparison guide says the 4750 (no numbers on the 4770 yet) has a theoretical max of 51.2GBps while the 9600GT, which has a 900MHz internal bus, tops out at 57.6GBps.

I'm not saying their numbers are perfect but that's my standard reference for graphics card stuff.

Look at the numbers for the GeForce 9400GT 128 bit @ 400MHz = 12.8 GB/sec. Oops so 25.6 GB/sec for 256 bit ddr2.

You can get to 57.6 GB/sec but it takes GDDR3 @ 900 MHz with a 256 bit bus.

 

[Stereodude]

Look at the numbers for the GeForce 9400GT 128 bit @ 400MHz = 12.8 GB/sec. Oops so 25.6 GB/sec for 256 bit ddr2.

You can get to 57.6 GB/sec but it takes GDDR3 @ 900 MHz with a 256 bit bus.

You really just don't get this do you?

DDR, DDR2, DDR3, GDDR2, GDDR3, & GDDR4 all at 800MHz will all have the same max theoretical bandwidth. They all send out data twice per clock. GDDR5 sends out data 4 times per clock.

256bit DDR2 @ 800Mhz is the same speed as 128-bit GDDR5 @ 800MHz.

 

[Pradeep]

Yes, but we're not talking about DDR2 PC2-6400 memory. We're talking about 800MHz DDR2 that's 256bit wide on a 2GB 9600GT card made by Sparkle. link

My math is correct for the card in question.

Your math is wrong (as is mine). Its 400 MHz (800 effective). The card is using the equivalent of quad channel ddr2 - 25.6 thanks sbardwick.

 

[sdbardwick]

Yes, but we're not talking about DDR2 PC2-6400 memory. We're talking about 800MHz DDR2 that's 256bit wide on a 2GB 9600GT card made by Sparkle. link

My math is correct for the card in question.

DDR2 memory that runs at 800Mhz clock does not exist. DDR3 does...

 

[Stereodude]

Your math is wrong (as is mine). Its 400 MHz (800 effective). The card is using the equivalent of quad channel ddr2 - 25.6 thanks sbardwick.

No it's not. The card has an 800MHz memory clock (not effective speed).

 

[Pradeep]

You really just don't get this do you?

DDR, DDR2, DDR3, GDDR2, GDDR3, & GDDR4 all at 800MHz will all have the same max theoretical bandwidth. They all send out data twice per clock. GDDR5 sends out data 4 times per clock.

256bit DDR2 @ 800Mhz is the same speed as 128-bit GDDR5 @ 800MHz.

256bit DDR3 @ 800MHz is the same speed as 128 bit GDDR5 @ 800MHz.

256 bit DDR2 has half the bandwidth.

 

[Stereodude]

DDR2 memory that runs at 800Mhz clock does not exist.

Are you sure about that? There are several video card makers who claim to be using it. Asus

 

[Stereodude]

256 bit DDR2 has half the bandwidth.

Please explain to me why it has half the BW? What's different between DDR2 and DDR3?

 

[Pradeep]

Because the DDR2 iis 400MHz * 2 transfers per cycle = 800 megatransfers per sec.

The GDDR3 is 800MHz * 2 transfers per cycle = 1600 megatransfers per second.

The GDDR5 IS 800MHz * 4 transfers per cycle = 3200 megatransfers per second

 

[Pradeep]

No it's not. The card has an 800MHz memory clock (not effective speed).

You are suggesting that this card is running PC2 -12800, which doesn't exist. PC3-12800 does, that is DDR3.