sdbardwick
Storage is cool
I'd say that is a marketing dept. error. The fastest DDR2 chip I know of (from the major manuf. anyway) is 500Mhz from Hynix. The power consumption (and thus cooling requirements) of 800MHz DDR2 would be terrible.
How do I turn this system into a HTPC?
- Thread starter Santilli
- Start date
Stereodude
Not really a
I'm just going by the specs. It says it has 800MHz memory. The other 9600GT's have >51.2GB/sec of memory BW (they run DDR3 @900MHz).
Your argument apparently is that they're lying it's really 400Mhz and they made a 9600GT that has less than 1/2 the memory BW of other 9600GT's. Right...
Stereodude
Not really a
Yes, but DDR2 if run at 800MHz would have the same BW as DDR3 @ 800Mhz.
sdbardwick
Storage is cool
After sinking way to much time into this insignificant (in the big picture) issue, my conclusion is that you cannot really trust the specifications provided either on reseller's websites or even the card maker's websites. They both seem to drop the ball on the details, especially regarding memory type and speeds.
The Sparkle 9600GT 2GB specs state 800MHz DDR2. As far as I can tell (and someone please let me know if I am wrong), the GPU requires GDDR3. So it appears they are using cheaper 800MHz rather than the standard 900MHz GDDR3 for the 9600GT (or mistyped 8 for 9).
As for the Asus card that Stereodude linked above, the specs list DDR2, which that GPU supports, but it then states 1600MHz effective 800MHz memory clock; I cannot find any DDR2 that operates above 600MHz. However, the 4350 can support DDR3 and GDDR3 as well as DDR2, so it looks like the marketing department mistyped DDR2 when they meant DDR3 (or GDDR3).
[ATi/AMD makes finding GPU specs easy; NVIDIA is the exact opposite]
The Sparkle 9600GT 2GB specs state 800MHz DDR2. As far as I can tell (and someone please let me know if I am wrong), the GPU requires GDDR3. So it appears they are using cheaper 800MHz rather than the standard 900MHz GDDR3 for the 9600GT (or mistyped 8 for 9).
As for the Asus card that Stereodude linked above, the specs list DDR2, which that GPU supports, but it then states 1600MHz effective 800MHz memory clock; I cannot find any DDR2 that operates above 600MHz. However, the 4350 can support DDR3 and GDDR3 as well as DDR2, so it looks like the marketing department mistyped DDR2 when they meant DDR3 (or GDDR3).
[ATi/AMD makes finding GPU specs easy; NVIDIA is the exact opposite]
Pradeep
Storage? I am Storage!
Ding. We have a winner. "Lying" seems harsh given you are talking about a single web page that probably has very little traffic these days. 800MHz "effective" is marketing speak. Guess how they manage to deliver a "2GB" card for about $100? They used the cheapest RAM they could find. They certainly didn't cram in 2GB of niche memory that doesn't exist (PC2-12800) to get to that price.
So to summarize our discussion. Yes, all things being equal, DDR2 800 (running at 1600MHz effective) is as fast as DDR3 800 (running at 1600MHz effective). However, there is no DDR2 800 running at 1600MHz, only 400MHz running at 800 MHz.
And yes, you managed to link to a card that does have half the bandwidth of almost all other 9600 cards. Give yourself a gold star.
Pradeep
Storage? I am Storage!
"Compared with ordinary GeForce 9600 GT graphics cards on market, SPARKLE GeForce 9600 GT 1GB/2GB DDR2 Graphics Cards come with incredible large 1GB or 2GB DDR2 video memory, making them to be first batch of graphics cards in the world with up to 2GB video memory."
http://www.guru3d.com/news/sparkle-releases-2-gb-geforce-9600-gt/
http://www.guru3d.com/news/sparkle-releases-2-gb-geforce-9600-gt/
Pradeep
Storage? I am Storage!
http://xtreview.com/addcomment-id-4424-view-Jetway-8800GT-and-9600-GT-2Gb-version.html
There are 1/2GB DDR3 based cards (900/1800MHz effective). Or at least they were announced. The Sparkle is not one of them.
There are 1/2GB DDR3 based cards (900/1800MHz effective). Or at least they were announced. The Sparkle is not one of them.
Stereodude
Not really a
That must explain all the outraged reviewers at Newegg who complained about the poor performance of their 9600GT. Oh wait... there aren't any of those.
Mercutio
Fatwah on Western Digital
Given the price v. performance of modern mid-range video cards I don't think you're going to find many unhappy customers. And for that matter, someone who buys a $100 video card might not be terribly discriminating about performance to begin with.
udaman
Wannabe Storage Freak
- Joined
- Sep 20, 2006
- Messages
- 1,209
Bit condescending there Merc, some people are on a budget...you heard about the recession by chance?
all the previous banter on the 9600 is for not, it's in the past, 4770 blows it way in performance/price considerations. 4770 will compare well with either 4850 or GTS250 when overclocked. xbit reviews went a bit hyperbole calling it 'revolutionary'.
Shear BW isn't all there is to performance (see 1st pg of this link for BW specs showing the GTS250 well ahead of the 4770), depends on the game, which cards are stronger under what IQ settings---and you'll note this Asus, while not the passive/massive silent heatsink model, still circulates the heat *inside* the system, as opposed to designs that expell the heat outside...all things to consider:
http://www.pcstats.com/articleview.cfm?articleid=2392&page=10
AMD has produced a scrappy little fighter with the Radeon HD 4770 graphics processor, and ASUS a fine example of it in the EAH4770 HTDI/512GD5/A videocard. This videocard handily outclasses the NVIDIA 9600GT and AMD Radeon HD 4670 and 4830 videocards that hang around the hundred dollar mark, while still trading blows with more expensive solutions like the Radeon HD 4850 and Geforce GTS 250 videocards.
While the Radon HD 4770 'RV770' doesn't have as much shader power as the RV770 or G92+, its faster core clock speeds let it compensate. In games that use shader-intensive effects like heat distortion, HDR light blooming or motion blur, the Radeon HD 4770 isn't quite as efficient.
Of course nothing is ever quite that simple, since top-quality games do all sorts of visual tricks and optimizations to eke as much performance out of a GPU as possible. In real-world gaming, the ASUS EAH4770 is generally one to five percent slower than Radeon HD 4850 cards. Both Radeon cards are a shade faster than NVIDIA's Geforce GTS 250 videocard in situations where anti-aliasing is turned up.
This is an outstanding value, considering that Radeon HD 4850 and Geforce GTS 250 videocards cost around $150 USD. The ASUS EAH4770 will only set you back $100 USD ($120 CAD, £70 GBP), and at that price it wipes the floor with every other card on the market in terms of sheer gaming value for money. It harkens back to the days of the original Geforce 8800GT, which provided performance on par with much faster videocards at lower prices than enthusiasts thought possible.
With its low power requirements, good acoustic levels and outstanding value for money, the new ATI Radeon HD 4770 videocard is a clear winner for entry-level videocard buyers. Anyone looking to spend $100 on a videocard should automatically draft the Asus EAH4770 to the top of their shortlist, and even those with some extra cash might want to reconsider given how closely the performance of this videocard compares to its more expensive peers.
Fudzilla reports a 1GB version of the 4770 due out soon.
http://www.fudzilla.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=13451&Itemid=1
If you need more performance (and have plenty of extra slots), when you have more $$$ you can always double up on the 4770's...assuming you can handle the additional power requirements and heat generated.
Stereodude
Not really a
Here's an idea... Lets ask Santilli what speed his RAM runs at.
Can you check it for us?
Can you check it for us?
Santilli
Hairy Aussie
- Joined
- Jan 27, 2002
- Messages
- 5,278
Stream Processors 64
Core clock 650 MHZ
Memory Clock: 400 mhz (800 mhz data rate)
Memory interface: 256 bit
Memory: 2048 MB
Looks like Pradeep is the winner:
However, there is no DDR2 800 running at 1600MHz, only 400MHz running at 800 MHz.
I will say only one bad comment, and, overall, a lot of people have used Sparkle cards, and, not many bad reviews...
Core clock 650 MHZ
Memory Clock: 400 mhz (800 mhz data rate)
Memory interface: 256 bit
Memory: 2048 MB
Looks like Pradeep is the winner:
However, there is no DDR2 800 running at 1600MHz, only 400MHz running at 800 MHz.
I will say only one bad comment, and, overall, a lot of people have used Sparkle cards, and, not many bad reviews...
Stereodude
Not really a
Stereodude
Not really a
That was on the box, or is that from a software measurement?
If correct Sparkle totally screwed their buyers on the memory BW. A normal 9600GT has ~57GB/sec. That one only has 25.6GB/sec.
Pradeep
Storage? I am Storage!
Users who cared about performance already knew the card was crippled by using a lot of slow ddr2 when the rest used gddr3 that was over twice as fast. Those that didn't got a warm fuzzy from having "2GB".
Pradeep
Storage? I am Storage!
It can effect performance when running at high rez with high AA settings. Shouldn't affect DVD playback.
Stereodude
Not really a
It would for high resolution gaming where you've got anti aliasing cranked and anisotropic filtering juiced.
Mercutio
Fatwah on Western Digital
If you have the resolution so high, you don't those things to begin with.
Pradeep
Storage? I am Storage!
xbitlabs test with 4x FSAA and 16x anisotrophic filtering. If you have the performance to spare then why not use them?
Mercutio
Fatwah on Western Digital
I can't tell the difference between 4xFSAA and no FSAA on City of Heroes at 1080p.
I am interested to know if you solved your lip sync problem? I have one as well when using optical, I had to revert to analog to fix.
ddrueding
Fixture
I have had the same out-of-sync sound issues, but it was recording-specific. Some played fine, others didn't.
Some were DVDs that were out of sync, others were fine as DVDs but got messed up when I re-encoded using XviD.
Some were DVDs that were out of sync, others were fine as DVDs but got messed up when I re-encoded using XviD.
Santilli
Hairy Aussie
- Joined
- Jan 27, 2002
- Messages
- 5,278
By reducing the resolution to DVD resolution, the problem went away, which I found strange. I thought the stuff was HDTV stuff, and, would be done at higher resolution, but, perhaps as with Davids' stuff, it was an issue of how it was copied causing the problem.
Since changing resolutions to 720 x 480, IIRC, everything has been fine.
Since changing resolutions to 720 x 480, IIRC, everything has been fine.
Does anyone have any keyboard mouse combo's they could recommend for an HTPC setup?
I think I'm looking for a compact wireless keyboard, maybe something with a trackpad or the little IBM stick for a mouse.
I've tried googling but I'm not coming up with exactly what I'm looking for.
I think I'm looking for a compact wireless keyboard, maybe something with a trackpad or the little IBM stick for a mouse.
I've tried googling but I'm not coming up with exactly what I'm looking for.
Mercutio
Fatwah on Western Digital
I use a Logitech bluetooth keyboard for PS/3. There's another RF-based system I was looking at, which is more compact and uses a trackball rather than a trackpad.
Stereodude
Not really a
I use a Logitech BT keyboard and laser mouse for my HTPC. I never found the RF stuff to have a long enough range to be useful. Especially the mice.
Myself as well, but the weird thing for me when I use analog everything is perfect no matter what format. I believe some of the issue was the DDlive encoding but some even when I wasn't doing that. Just ticks me off and seems to not be a mature technology.
Interesting so basically something was behind a bit lagging doing the rescaling of the image then the audio was leading the video?
ddrueding
Fixture
I'm using a Logitech DiNovo Edge...very sweet looking, and works great with a Linksys Bluetooth Adapter.
ddrueding
Fixture
I think all the others mentioned are cheaper. The PS3 Bluetooth looks like a fine idea. There really is no substitute for the Linksys Bluetooth adapter if you want long range, it blows everything else away.
Nice catch, I was just thinking the other day I need an inexpensive bluetooth keyboard for the HTPC.
ddrueding
Fixture
It probably doesn't, but even if it did, the bundled ones always suck.