I just ordered some "cheap" systems...

[ddrueding]

Specs as follows:

Shuttle SK21-G1-SV-V1 AMD Socket 754 VIA K8M800
AMD Sempron 3100+ Palermo 1600MHz HT Socket 754
Kingston ValueRAM 512MB 184-Pin DDR SDRAM DDR 400
Travelstar 5K100 40GB 5400 RPM Serial ATA150 Notebook Drive
BenQ 16x DVD+R DVD Burner Model DW1625

~$350

I've never before used a VIA chipset, a Sempron processor, or any kind of Shuttle...and I just ordered 3 of these. Am I going to kick myself?

 

[Bozo]

After my experiance (a while back) with VIA chipsets, you'll be sorry.

Bozo :mrgrn:

 

[LiamC]

Specs as follows:

Shuttle SK21-G1-SV-V1 AMD Socket 754 VIA K8M800
AMD Sempron 3100+ Palermo 1600MHz HT Socket 754
Kingston ValueRAM 512MB 184-Pin DDR SDRAM DDR 400
Travelstar 5K100 40GB 5400 RPM Serial ATA150 Notebook Drive
BenQ 16x DVD+R DVD Burner Model DW1625

~$350

I've never before used a VIA chipset, a Sempron processor, or any kind of Shuttle...and I just ordered 3 of these. Am I going to kick myself?

Depends on if you ask Merc or Tannin...

:mrgrn: :rofl: :eekers:

 

[Mercutio]

I use Via to the exclusion of anything else. Bozo's just been around Dells too long.

As far as things go, the 8VM800 is a really wonderful "vanilla" chipset. I use Gigabyte's version to power my file servers. I've also used Biostar versions. They're just dandy.

Shuttle is a company with which I have had good and bad experiences. I tend to prefer Biostar equipment; in my mind the two serve the same niche and price range, and I haven't had any per se BAD experiences with Biostar as I have with Shuttle.

The Semprons are slightly sluggish if you're used to A64s. That 3100 is probably about on par with an A64/2800. Someone who rips DVDs or games constantly will be asking "What the hell is wrong with my computer?", but if your highest aspiration is MS Office and Firefox, I defy you to tell the difference between that 3100 and an Athlon64 of any speed.

 

[Tannin]

I agree with Mercutio practically 100%. Only points of difference are that I don't have any real relevant experience with Shuttle products since K6-2 days (but they were fine for me back then) andI do use non-VIA chipsets as well as VIA - primarily the excellent Nforce 3, which we have used a heap of, plus smaller numbers of the Nforce 4. Both of these, and particularly the excellent Nforce 3, are streets ahead of the wonky, fuss-prone early Nvidia mainboard chipsets and the Nforce 3 at least is good enough to be spoken about in the same breath as the always-faithful VIA chipsets.

Sempron 3100 is by far the best of the Socket 754 Semprons, easily superior to the same-clock but smaler cache 3000 and, as Merc says, pretty much the same deal as an A64 2800.

I'm not a huge fan of BenQ, but optical drives of almost any brand are pretty much a routine and standard technology these days and I seem to remember Buck saying that the BenQs were OK.

Oh, and your system will outperform any Dell within cooee of its price range by a factor of .... er ... as Tea would say .... lots!

 

[time]

Well, no it won't actually, thanks to the laptop drive.

I agree about the Sempron 3100; in essence it's an A64 2800 (1.8GHz)with half the cache (256kB instead of 512kB), so many apps will perform similarly.

 

[CougTek]

Travelstar 5K100 40GB 5400 RPM Serial ATA150 Notebook Drive

Why? Do you plan running those systems on a 120W PSU or what?

 

[ddrueding]

Travelstar 5K100 40GB 5400 RPM Serial ATA150 Notebook Drive

Why? Do you plan running those systems on a 120W PSU or what?

Perhaps. My primary goal is a quiet system, and nothing does that better than a low-powered CPU, a large slow fan, and a laptop hard drive. If quiet is important, a 2.5" HDD is a practical neccesity.

And if the PS is too loud, than I will swap it with the very one you linked to; I've had great experiences with them (actually, the 80W version).

 

[Tannin]

Well, no it won't actually, thanks to the laptop drive.

DOH!

I forgot about that bit.

But, come to think of it, it would quite possibly still outperform a Dell. I mean we are not exactly talking rocket-powered performance machines here, and if there is a way to make a perfectly decently-speced machine perform like a crippled refugee from the previous century that Compaq haven't already patented for their own exclusive use, then Dell might just have thought of it.

 

[Bozo]

The VIA chipsets that earned a 6 out of 10 Excedrin rating were on a Tyan motherboard for a P-3.


Bozo :mrgrn:

 

[Tannin]

I have no isea why anyone thinks Tyan motherboards are so good. The few thgat I have tried have been no more than ordinary at best. In any case, I have always regarded VIA as the best of the chipset makers for AMD CPUs; their Intel platform stuff has traditionally not been a strength.

 

[Bozo]

I no sooner typed that and a VIA mini ITX system showed up on my desk.
A WYSE terminal with a VIA Epia motherboard.

I took the lid off the Excedrin....

Bozo :mrgrn:

 

[ddrueding]

...but if your highest aspiration is MS Office and Firefox, I defy you to tell the difference between that 3100 and an Athlon64 of any speed.

When I read this, I thought "yeah, you're probably right; I don't think there will be an appreciable difference." Still thinking that I'd be able to tell.

No. I can't. Not in boot times, not in Firefox, not in Office apps, not in Winamp or RDC or Google SketchUp or Google Earth...wtf? This is doing a double-blind via KVM comparison (no stopwatch).

Specs:

"Nice" Machine:
A64 3700+ @ 2.8Ghz (255Mhz FSB)
1GB Ram
72GB Raptor

"Cheap" Machine:
Sempron 3100+ @ stock
512MB RAM
40GB SATA notebook drive @ 5400RPM

And to top it all off, I stuck an X-Plosion 7.1 soundcard from Auzentech (thanks Merc) in the "cheap" one (I know, it's no longer cheap) I have no doubt which I'd prefer.

I really am amazed.

 

[ddrueding]

Travelstar 5K100 40GB 5400 RPM Serial ATA150 Notebook Drive

Why? Do you plan running those systems on a 120W PSU or what?

Oh, and this power supply is too bloody loud, so a 120W picoPSU (with P4 adapter) is on order

 

[Mercutio]

You should be seeing some difference with the waste of electricity that is a Raptor. The only thing I can think is that the 40GB drive you're using is a single platter with a massive areal density advantage over the Raptor.

On the other hand, I've been saying that those cheapie boxes as a wonderful deal for years. I am glad you've seen the light.

 

[ddrueding]

My first performance beef with the cheap systems:

Playing an XviD video stream is showing average of 80% CPU useage and dropped frames. Is this because of the crappy onboard video? I'd think a Semperon 3100+ should handle some multimedia?

 

[Bozo]

"crappy onboard video" You bet !

Bozo :mrgrn:

 

[ddrueding]

Great. It has an AGP port and very limited airflow, and I won't put more fans in. What video card should I look at to give it some more punch?

 

[P5-133XL]

Try an ATI Radeon 9600 (AGP). You can get them fanless and they are plenty capable.

 

[ddrueding]

Try an ATI Radeon 9600 (AGP). You can get them fanless and they are plenty capable.

Yes, I was thinking about those. I used to have the Sapphire "ultimate edition" of the card which was fanless. However, I'm concerned that it produces too much heat for this case. This is a SFF chassis with a large PCI sound card between the graphics card and the only fan. I don't think there will be much airflow past it at all.

I'm tempted to try some of the Gigabyte GeForce 6200 cards, as the half height might help the soundcard breathe a bit better, and I'd hope the heat would be manageable.

 

[Mercutio]

9550s are nice and work very well for being fanless. For that matter, even a 9250 is a decent option.

Remember that S3 Unichrome is essentially a seven year old chip that doesn't even fully support directX 6.

But, um, if you're watching a movie on such a machine, will you really be doing heavy multitasking such that you really care how much work the CPU is doing?

 

[ddrueding]

But, um, if you're watching a movie on such a machine, will you really be doing heavy multitasking such that you really care how much work the CPU is doing?

I'm quite alright with the CPU util being high, I just don't want it to affect the quality of the playback. It's currently at the point where it's noticeable to non-geeks, and that's pretty bad.

 

[ddrueding]

9550s are nice and work very well for being fanless.

This would be the one? And heat output is sufficiently low?

 

[Mercutio]

To be on the safe side, a 9250 is probably better for its thermal characteristics. The Gigabyte 9550s I'm familiar with can get warm from mild 3D use (e.g. someone playing Counterstrike) but are normally cool to the touch.
The 9250 is a much simpler chip. You won't be TEMPTED to mild 3D use (they are DX8 hardware), but it's full-featured for general video decoding, just like every other Radeon.

I have no idea what the nvidia equivalents are like. nVidia chips always seem hot to me, though, even when they're just doing 2D.

 

[ddrueding]

On their way, should be good. Thanks guys.