Howell
Storage? I am Storage!
Well what do you know: DipYourCar. There are a coupleof pieces I'm going to try to dip but I hadn't thought about a whole car.
I want to buy a new car
- Thread starter CougTek
- Start date
I really never considered painting/dipping my own car: My skills don't generally run that way, but fair enough as it will be much cheaper. My first question is how do I remove the old paint?
My problem is not rust (yet) however, the surface of the car is not smooth anymore. The clear coat is bubbling like blisters and it turns white as it stretches while the paint underneath turns a mottled black (from a solid forest green). Then as the blisters break the clear coat then easily flakes off. Just painting or dipping is not going to produce a reasonable result nor last if the original base isn't flat and is busy flaking off. Perhaps I wrong but I think everything has to be sanded off smooth before I can add anything like paint or plastic.
Also I can't just tape off trim pieces. The bubbling seems to have a preference to the edges of trim.
My problem is not rust (yet) however, the surface of the car is not smooth anymore. The clear coat is bubbling like blisters and it turns white as it stretches while the paint underneath turns a mottled black (from a solid forest green). Then as the blisters break the clear coat then easily flakes off. Just painting or dipping is not going to produce a reasonable result nor last if the original base isn't flat and is busy flaking off. Perhaps I wrong but I think everything has to be sanded off smooth before I can add anything like paint or plastic.
Also I can't just tape off trim pieces. The bubbling seems to have a preference to the edges of trim.
Stereodude
Not really a
You don't have to remove the old paint. You just need to sand it pretty smooth to promote adhesion and remove any loose / flaking chunks of clear coat / paint. Given the state of paint you're describing plasti-dip probably isn't the right product.
I'd suggest looking at this. There are lots of threads across various forums where people have done similar low cost paint jobs.
I'd suggest looking at this. There are lots of threads across various forums where people have done similar low cost paint jobs.
I'm assuming the blistering is an indication of outgasing from the paint itself chemically changing while the clearcoat is just trapping that gas till it fails. Is just removing the currently failed portions of the paint/clear coat sufficient? Even if covered by new paint, won't the old paint that remains still eventually outgas and won't that process still destroy any new product placed on top of it?
ddrueding
Fixture
Getting all the loose material off is a must. Plastidip probably isn't the best product for a lasting finish, but it is so cheap and so easy that I'd still recommend it. The only masking necessary is to keep it off the tires/brakes and out of the engine and other vents. Even going straight over the glass and peeling it off after is less than a minute per pane. It would probably take less than a day all-in.
The thing that encouraged me to play with it (I am not a handyman in any way) was that it didn't damage the surface underneath and could be completely reversed if something went wrong.
The thing that encouraged me to play with it (I am not a handyman in any way) was that it didn't damage the surface underneath and could be completely reversed if something went wrong.
mubs
Storage? I am Storage!
Yeah right. And who's doing so much construction around the house?
Stereodude
Not really a
I don't think that's likely the cause (out gassing). UV exposure has probably damaged the clear coat causing it to peel.
ddrueding
Fixture
I do get my hands dirty, but I also have a full staff of specialists handy (general contractor friend, and I work for a construction company). Anything tricky and I bring in someone (just stocked the fridge with beer for the concrete guy on Monday).
The Plastidip was something else. No specialists, no hardcore research, and my perfectly fine new-ish car. Just watched a bunch of the dipyourcar.com youtube videos and went for it confident that I could at least undo whatever I did.
ddrueding
Fixture
I'm impressed. I love the styling, the performance, and those seats! I could only hope for a return of the Avant in the US some day...not that I could come anywhere close to affording that monster.
time
Storage? I am Storage!
I can relate to the better-than-expected performance which that review attributed to the gearbox. In my case it's a Focus with only 170hp, but really fast pickup. Normally sedate, but push the pedal and things happen very quickly. I suspect it's the same with Ddrueding's A3 - power-to-weight is far from the whole story.
ddrueding
Fixture
Quite. When people get in the car I tell them what the car weighs and how much power it has, then do the launch control thing. They are amazed.
One of the guys has spent the last decade and six figures building a 10-second car. When I started explaining how AWD and dual clutch could get him into the 10s with leather and nav for less, he almost cried. Definitely and old-school muscle guy.
C7 is getting 40mpg on the freeway if you're willing to do 70 mph. Not bad for a 450HP sports car.
http://www.autoweek.com/article/20130826/CARNEWS/130829835
http://www.autoweek.com/article/20130826/CARNEWS/130829835
mubs
Storage? I am Storage!
40mpg @ 70mph is certainly astounding!
You'd not believe what kind of fantastic Hwy mileage I can get on a Rolls Royce being towed at 70MPH for 26 miles. I would argue that my being towed numbers have as much validity as your slip-streaming numbers. They're both junk numbers that has no useful basis in reality.
You're right, it's exactly the same. Silly me. If the editor is impressed by it I'd say it is something worth noting at least.
jtr1962
Storage? I am Storage!
Yep. I can draft behind a semi on my bike at 70 mph if I have a high enough gear to keep my cadence reasonable. This video shows how little power is needed (he's only going about 55 mph but he could go faster with a higher gear). Right behind a semi it's pretty much all rolling resistance and just about zero aero drag.
jtr1962
Storage? I am Storage!
I'm going to hazard a guess here based on my knowledge of vehicle physics that fuel economy drafting a semi will be roughly inversely proportional to the weight. All you have is tire drag, and that's directly proportional to weight to a first approximation. Of course, gearing can make a significant difference also. All other things being equal, a taller gear will result in better fuel economy as I'm sure you're already quite aware of.
BTW, it wouldn't entirely surprise me if the C7 could get 60 or 70 mpg in the situation mentioned. The trip computer was past 40 mpg and still rising. Actually, this is part of the reason why Google is pushing self-driven cars. If we can run cars bumper-to-bumper on the highway, the energy efficiency will easily be twice what it is now. Large sedans should be capable of 60+ mpg, and straight electrics could easily see twice the range.
It would also be nice if whatever was done for the C7 can be applied to other GM vehicles to also get 460 HP and over 40 MPG.
Good video.
With respect to cars, though, I think the key takeaway from this is that drafting allows the active fuel management system on the C7 to aggressively kick in, shutting off fuel to 4 of the 8 cylinders of the vehicle the entire time. So I expect the C7 to benefit more from this than the typical non active fuel management vehicle could ever do. Typical C7 is rated for 29-30MPG on highway by the government, depending on configuration. I don't believe a non-AFM, car with high performance tires would be able to get a 33% increase in fuel economy, just by drafting.
With respect to cars, though, I think the key takeaway from this is that drafting allows the active fuel management system on the C7 to aggressively kick in, shutting off fuel to 4 of the 8 cylinders of the vehicle the entire time. So I expect the C7 to benefit more from this than the typical non active fuel management vehicle could ever do. Typical C7 is rated for 29-30MPG on highway by the government, depending on configuration. I don't believe a non-AFM, car with high performance tires would be able to get a 33% increase in fuel economy, just by drafting.
time
Storage? I am Storage!
Here's some real data you can use with respect to a typical sedan which has been developed by a team of Engineers who specialize in this stuff.. I'm thinking the 40% has got to be due to more than just the aero effect unless there's something I'm missing.
I remember in my 5,600lb. 2007 Chevy Avalanche with 5.3 V8 and first generation active fuel management, I was able to get about 28mph when driving on level roads at about 45-50mph, not drafting anyone. So, getting above the sticker is not hard if you find the sweet spot for your engine's 'tune'. There is obviously an aero effect when drafting, but I feel you guys are overstating it. After thinking about that though, the 33% increase in the vette is not that amazing I guess. What makes it amazing to me is that they are starting out at 29-30mpg in a car that gets to 60mph in less than 4s in the first place which I guess makes the 40mpg seem impressive.
jtr1962
Storage? I am Storage!
33% seems about right because you're only eliminating some of the aerodynamic drag part of the equation here. At highway speeds aero drag is probably about 1.5 to 3 times tire drag. On the flip side, for a bicycle aero drag at high speeds is well over 90% of total drag, so it's easy to see how drafting can enable speeds which otherwise wouldn't be possible. It takes roughly 6,000 watts to hold 70 mph with a typical racing bicycle riding on the drops. For some perspective, the best sprinters can briefly put out about 2000 watts. Now if you eliminate the aero drag, you only require about 150 watts-well within the capabilities of many cyclists (my 1 hour output is about 200 watts).
ddrueding
Fixture
It doesn't specify, but my guess is that these numbers include acceleration of some kind, otherwise the mass wouldn't be a factor beyond rolling resistance (which is already separately specified). Thanks for the data though, that is interesting.
ddrueding
Fixture
http://youtu.be/Vq5HkukfCEY
This is the first 'Vette I'd really consider buying.
And as a side note, that was filmed on Reservation Road, about 3 miles from my house
This is the first 'Vette I'd really consider buying.
And as a side note, that was filmed on Reservation Road, about 3 miles from my house
time
Storage? I am Storage!
I watched that with the sound off (while munching a snack).
I saw a doofus destroying a couple thousand dollars worth of rubber by disabling traction control.
I saw several minutes of non-stop talking while the car negotiated ridiculously straight roads at low speed. I think there were 3 corners, albeit slow sweepers.
WTF is the appeal? Is this why American cars don't cut it in most other countries?
I saw a doofus destroying a couple thousand dollars worth of rubber by disabling traction control.
I saw several minutes of non-stop talking while the car negotiated ridiculously straight roads at low speed. I think there were 3 corners, albeit slow sweepers.
WTF is the appeal? Is this why American cars don't cut it in most other countries?
Burning rubber isn't appealing to me either but if you want to see a better example of an American car that handles well in the corners, the C6 ZR1 does a pretty good job here:
[video=youtube;k6mEirkQN8o]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k6mEirkQN8o[/video]
That's a GM Engineer doing that. That is his job. He gets paid to do stuff like that. WTF!
ddrueding
Fixture
Those are factory wheels? From an upgrade package? Same size?
Those are the base 18's with a machined type finish that come with the Lux package (rather than painted finish on the base model). Both are fine for me, the Lux package (machine finish) ones are brighter, which I kinda like. It's a 2013.
20"s are optional and look really really nice but I didn't want to spend the $ and I doubt my dealer could have found one for me before the end of this month anyway. You either have to upgrade to the Performance or the Premium packages to get the 20"s or have them dealer installed for $2,000 + IIRC.
For my use, I'd go with the cheaper tire just in case I need to replace one (or more). Without the RTD suspension that's available, the 20"s would ride harder too, I'm sure.
For my use, I'd go with the cheaper tire just in case I need to replace one (or more). Without the RTD suspension that's available, the 20"s would ride harder too, I'm sure.
I meant it as a good thing? The car is capable of doing very well in the hands of a skilled driver.
Oh I was just saying I would sure love to have that job! I looked him up at work. Just a dude that must be very talented and have a lot of practice to be able to drive like that. :-D
ddrueding
Fixture
I was planning on getting a P85+ (or equivalent) in a couple years, but if I am going to buy sooner it would need to cost less than $100k. Looking at the base with only the "High Power Home Charging", "Tech Package", and "Rear Facing Seats" puts it at just under $70k in CA. Trying to decide whether High Power is worth it. I have 100A service to the garage, so it wouldn't be difficult. And sticking with the "60" means a 208 mile EPA range, so that means 150 for me. Would I plan two trips on the same day so that charging time would be a consideration?
Also considering the Supercharger. Two locations are already nearby, perfectly located to do a road-trip to SF or Napa, and another is being built very close soon (no actual address yet). Worth $2k?