Inexpensive laptops.

e_dawg

Storage Freak
Joined
Jul 19, 2002
Messages
1,903
Location
Toronto-ish, Canada
OTOH, I find IBM's X41 ThinkPad Tablet to be a POS. MOstly because it's unberarably slow. I blame the 4200 rpm 1.8" HD. It's expensive, has a small dim fuzzy screen, the keyboard feels a little cramped, and it will always be slow because it uses the 1.8" form factor. Not recommened at all.
 

Santilli

Hairy Aussie
Joined
Jan 27, 2002
Messages
5,257
http://www.mobilityguru.com/2004/12/13/nine_notebook_hard_drives_make_their_debuts/page7.html

CT: This link is for Tony, but it's kind of long. Would you please fix it?

Thanks

The question becomes:

Is it worth 150-300 dollars to upgrade your drive, when only the 300 dollar drive gives a 5 year warranty?

Do you really need 100 gigs in a laptop? Not I. Would you be better served by a 7200 rpm Hitachi 60 gig or 40 gig, if you could find one for 150-200 dollars?

What % of the total cost of a laptop should be in the harddrive?

For perspective compare prices, capacity, and speed:

http://www.computergiants.com/items/one_item.asp?part=61631

GS
 

Santilli

Hairy Aussie
Joined
Jan 27, 2002
Messages
5,257
Spec comparision on HD Tach 2.70, in
Travelstar 4200 rpm ATA 6 40 gig vs. 7k 60 gig 7200 rpm travelstar:

Access time:
4200 rpm 23.8
7200 14.7
39% Difference?



Read performance:
4200 rpm 28.6 max, average 22.6
7200 rpm max 39.4 average 29.3
29% Difference?

While the access times appear to justify the upgrade, in my case with the drive in my current Panasonic, I don't really think the reads do.

I try and look for a 50%, or more, increase in Access times prior to upgrades, and, a similar increase in sustained read performance.

Let's look at the Hitachi 4200 vs. the Seagate 5400.2 100 gig

Access time:
4200 rpm 23.8
5400 rpm 17.0
29% difference


Read performance:
4200 rpm 28.6 max, average 22.6
5400 rpm max 36 average 27.9
19% difference


On the desktop side:
Average access read times for the drives I use all the time:
Cheetah 15.3 320's
5.7ms
Quantum LM 11.5ms

I consider the LM fast enough access time wise, to be useable for a
Desktop, but, sustained transfer rate around 23-25 mb/sec leaves a lot to be desired.

So, I guess to get the perspective difference, all I have to do is compare the laptop with the 4200 rpm drive, and nearly the same sustained transfer speed, to the Dell 400 P2, with the quantum LM still churning away, nearly 7 years later.

With folding at home running:(Laptop is 1.4 ghz M, and 1.25 gig ram, P2 is 400 mhz, and 384 ram, Laptop XP, desktop 2000)

Not real scientific, but loading Firefox takes 12 secs on the laptop, and 8 on the P2. Loading IE takes 5 secs on the laptop, and 3 on the quantum/P2.

From fresh restart, f@H off:
3 seconds for both to load Firefox.
IE 2 seconds on both.
Photoshop about 16 seconds on both.

2 seconds to load word on desktop, 3 seconds on laptop.

Excel loads in under two seconds on both.
About 16 seconds for both to load photoshop.

On the duals, photoshop loads in about 10 seconds.
Word under a second:
IE under a second.


I guess my point is, if you have a decent ATA-6 4200 rpm drive, at least in my case, it's pretty much fast enough, as long as you have enough ram to keep pageing down to a minimum, and a fast, 533 mhz system bus.

I'm unconvinced the % increases really justify the costs of the 7200 rpm
drives. If you need a big drive, the % difference makes you want to take a long look at the 100 gig Seagate Momentus 5400.2.

Perhaps a faster drive would make really good sense, on something like my old Panasonic CF-37, with a 6 gig drive.

Let's pull that out, and test it...

The only problem here is it may not support over ATA 5, and I believe that's the same with the Mac Lombard laying around here.
So that limits you to the slower drives, and really makes you wonder why are you throwing money at old machines?

Can't get the CF-37 to boot right now, so this test may have to be done later



:roll:

GS
 

Santilli

Hairy Aussie
Joined
Jan 27, 2002
Messages
5,257
I guess what they should say with the comments about desktop speed with the Hitachi 7200 is the speeds are going to be of a fairly medium to low speed
desktop...

gs
 

Santilli

Hairy Aussie
Joined
Jan 27, 2002
Messages
5,257
Are ATA-6 100 gig drives compatible with older, UltraDMA laptops?

I thought the cutoff is about ATA-5 for Macs, don't know about 2000/XP.

GS
 

timwhit

Hairy Aussie
Joined
Jan 23, 2002
Messages
5,278
Location
Chicago, IL
I definitely agree that IBM T series laptops are the way to go. I have repaired laptops before and all were a major PITA except for IBM.

I actually have a Dell Latitude D600 through work. It really isn't all that bad. It is kind of flimsy feeling, but I am careful with it and it would have decent performance if it had more than 512MB of memory.
 

CougTek

Hairy Aussie
Joined
Jan 21, 2002
Messages
8,728
Location
Québec, Québec
Santilli said:
CT: This link is for Tony, but it's kind of long. Would you please fix
Since when am I supposed to have editing powers in the forums? On the front page, yes, but not in the forums.

I'll try with my mind. Hhmmmmm......hhhmmmm....... :cyclopsani:


Merc,

Is it running hot or not? Could you use it on your legs (While you're sit, of course)?
thinman said:
If I stepped on one of the Toshibas I maintain, it'd be dead. If I stepped on a Vaio, it'd be a goner. If I stepped on a Latitude, I assure you there would be something wrong with it when I lifted my foot.
What about your Gateway? Since you happen to have one around now...I'd like to know ;)
 

LunarMist

I can't believe I'm a Fixture
Joined
Feb 1, 2003
Messages
17,454
Location
USA
Greg,

Do not be concerned about the ATA mode. If the notebook supports > 32 GB drives (basically anything from 2000 on) it should be OK up to at least 120 GB, since the drive will revert to the highest ATA mode supported by the controller. I don't know about Macs.

I have a couple of the 100GB 5400.2, and well as other 80GB 5400 RPM drives and one 120GB 5400.2. The increased data density definitely helps but is not a substitute for a 7200 RPM drive. An inexpensive, single-platter 50GB 7K100 would be a nice upgrade for older notebook, but not likely. I really don't know how the platters of the 60GB and 80GB 7k100 are configured, e.g., shortstroked, lower track density and/or sector density.
 

Santilli

Hairy Aussie
Joined
Jan 27, 2002
Messages
5,257
Mercutio has a point about using a bigger drive, provided the computer can play DVD's.

CF-37 I think, is too slow, 366 mhz with 192 mg of ram, but, I could be wrong.
That's on the line for DVD players. Course with a 6 gig drive, you can't play from the drive, and, it doesn't have a DVD player. Same with Lombard.

GS
 

Santilli

Hairy Aussie
Joined
Jan 27, 2002
Messages
5,257
Mercutio has a point about using a bigger drive, provided the computer can play DVD's.

CF-37 I think, is too slow, 366 mhz with 192 mg of ram, but, I could be wrong.
That's on the line for DVD players. Course with a 6 gig drive, you can't play from the drive, and, it doesn't have a DVD player. Same with Lombard.

GS
 

Mercutio

Fatwah on Western Digital
Joined
Jan 17, 2002
Messages
22,232
Location
I am omnipresent
CougTek said:
Merc,

Is it running hot or not? Could you use it on your legs (While you're sit, of course)?

Nope. It is surprisingly cool and comfortable. I sat in bed with the notebook perched on my belly (not so thin after all!) and watched TV shows I had downloaded for about two hours last night while I loaded software on it.

My IBM gets somewhat warmer than that.

The other thing that surprised me, once I got the system in the state I prefer, was boot time. Eyeballing the startup time for XP (I put XP on it, since the disc was handy and I might as well make a ATI-chipset sysprep image), it looks like about 35 seconds to login prompt. On a 4200rpm hard disk, that's pretty damned good!

When I get my sysprep image finished, I'll load some games on it and see how it does with them.

Complaints? Gateway doesn't have drivers on their web site for the 802.11G or modem. Maybe they're on the restore CD I got. I'll have to look.

Also, it's a widescreen. Only 800 pixels tall at maximum. Bleh.

not-Canadian said:
What about your Gateway? Since you happen to have one around now...I'd like to know ;)

Better chassis than Toshiba, IMO. Keys are solidly attached. I don't think I'd try stepping on it.
 

Santilli

Hairy Aussie
Joined
Jan 27, 2002
Messages
5,257
Catch 22. CF-37 is fast enough to do DVD's, but only if the files are copied to the hard drive. It only supports USB1, so, can't play from the DVD player, only copy from it. Ripping to the hard drive might take forever, don't know.

With head phones, it's rather cool, for such an old laptop.

Seems 60 mhz works fine for LCD.

GS
 

Santilli

Hairy Aussie
Joined
Jan 27, 2002
Messages
5,257
Mercutio:

The 4200 rpm ATA-6 drives aren't all that slow, or that shabby, compared to what else is out there.

This generation of drives really seems to have doubled, and then some,
sustained data transfer. The old drives in the CF 37 and Lombard are maybe 10 mb a sec, vs. average 22-23 mb/sec for a 4200 rpm drive in the new format. IMPRESSIVE preformance increase...

gs
 

Mercutio

Fatwah on Western Digital
Joined
Jan 17, 2002
Messages
22,232
Location
I am omnipresent
I can't get Gateway's drivers for the Broadcom Wireless-G card to work on my MX7515.
But I found some for an Acer Aspire 3000 that worked just fine the first time I tried them.

notebookforums.com suggests that lots of people have problems loading drivers for sound, modem and wireless on that particular laptop. I find that very odd considering how long it's been since I've had a problem loading a driver for anything under windows.
 

Mercutio

Fatwah on Western Digital
Joined
Jan 17, 2002
Messages
22,232
Location
I am omnipresent
Nero Recode - Base file 1.68GB video in a WMV container. Target is 700MB, 1.5Mbps .MP4

AMD64/4000 @ 2.6GHz = 135fps = 4.5x Real-time
AMD64x2/4200 @ 2x2.0GHz = 198fps = 6.6x Real-time

Does anyone remember doing .VOB to divx conversions on, say, a P2-450? I remember getting 3 or 4 fps.

Hell of an improvement over maybe six years.
 

CougTek

Hairy Aussie
Joined
Jan 21, 2002
Messages
8,728
Location
Québec, Québec
To continue on this involuntary thread hi-jacking, ATI has a beta software that reduces the encoding time by a 5X factor :
[url=http://www.chip.de/artikel/c1_artikel_17670022.html?tid1=9227&tid2=0 said:
CHIP Online[/url]]
CHIP Online had the opportunity to test a beta version of ATI’s still secret „Avivo XCode“ encoding tool. It uses the power of the GPU to reduce video encoding time –into virtually any format – drastically. Our results show: The new ATI solution easily does it 5 times faster than even the fastest CPUs available today!

Traditional video encoding tools rely solely on the PC’s main processor for the extensive calculations necessary when en- and decoding video sequences. The secret ATI Avivo XCode tool, however, additionally employs the power of ATI’s X1000 series’ architecture. We assume that the XCode tool mainly utilizes the programmable pixel shader units for it’s number-crunching.
I saw it first on 2CPU.com.
 

CougTek

Hairy Aussie
Joined
Jan 21, 2002
Messages
8,728
Location
Québec, Québec
xbit said:
My personal favorites are ASUS A3500L and HP Compaq nx6110 and I advise you to consider these two models even if you have taken note of something else.
Long, long above, in a post far, far away...

CougTek said:
I don't think I'm going to find something better than that :
  • Hewlett Packard NX6110
I must have a sixth sense or something.


But truth be told, I've been to the store and the Gateway certainly feel sturdier than the Compcrap. The quality was visibly superior. I believe that if Gateway laptop in the xbit labs' review there was, a recommendation it would have been.
 

Mercutio

Fatwah on Western Digital
Joined
Jan 17, 2002
Messages
22,232
Location
I am omnipresent
CougTek said:
To continue on this involuntary thread hi-jacking, ATI has a beta software that reduces the encoding time by a 5X factor :
[url=http://www.chip.de/artikel/c1_artikel_17670022.html?tid1=9227&tid2=0 said:
CHIP Online[/url]]
CHIP Online had the opportunity to test a beta version of ATI’s still secret „Avivo XCode“ encoding tool. It uses the power of the GPU to reduce video encoding time –into virtually any format – drastically. Our results show: The new ATI solution easily does it 5 times faster than even the fastest CPUs available today!

Unfortunately, X1x00s won't be in current-generation laptops. It's pretty easy to see a future where Avivo is only partially supported by anything. I don't think it's a reason to buy an ATI card.

Not that there aren't lots of other reasons to pick ATI. Avivo just seems to have "vapor" written all over it.
 

Santilli

Hairy Aussie
Joined
Jan 27, 2002
Messages
5,257
Try again

http://www.costco.com/Common/Category.aspx?cat=29722&eCat=BC|84|29721|29722&whse=&topnav=&hierPath=84*29721*29722*
 

Santilli

Hairy Aussie
Joined
Jan 27, 2002
Messages
5,257
Why do I have to copy and paste the link to get this link to work???

gs
 

CougTek

Hairy Aussie
Joined
Jan 21, 2002
Messages
8,728
Location
Québec, Québec
You know... ->
arg-christmas-tree-wide-sm-url.gif
 

LunarMist

I can't believe I'm a Fixture
Joined
Feb 1, 2003
Messages
17,454
Location
USA
How can the tree interfere with the previewing function? You guys are too high tech for my simple mind.
 
Top