Interior LED lighting

[Howell]

My goal was to replace the lights in some bedside table lamps with something more efficient than incandecent. I do not have a dimmer. I was concerned about using LEDs because they are very directional and the function of these lights needs a 360 degree light dispersion. I found these 5000k, 450lm, 80 CRI bulbs and although it is not truly omni directional it was close enough for my purposes. Is there a better bulb out there? Does anyone make an up/down oriented light for this pupose? What are others using for this application?

 

[ddrueding]

I bought several of a different type of bulb-replacement with an array of LEDs in it, but their color quality was so poor that I'm in the middle of building a better light fixture from scratch.

 

[LunarMist]

My goal was to replace the lights in some bedside table lamps with something more efficient than incandecent. I do not have a dimmer. I was concerned about using LEDs because they are very directional and the function of these lights needs a 360 degree light dispersion. I found these 5000k, 450lm, 80 CRI bulbs and although it is not truly omni directional it was close enough for my purposes. Is there a better bulb out there? Does anyone make an up/down oriented light for this pupose? What are others using for this application?

The newer Cree lamps are the closest I've seen to a real light bulb replacement in light pattern. The 100W are really bright, so you may want dimmer lights for some fixtures.
In table lamps the 5000K is too cold for my living area tastes and the 2700k is about what one expects to replace an incandescent, though a tad cooler.

 

[Howell]

Thanks lunar I'll check them out. Honestly I'd would be best for a legacy desk side lamp if the bulb reversed the direction of the light and sent it back toward the base.

 

[Bozo]

Thanks lunar I'll check them out. Honestly I'd would be best for a legacy desk side lamp if the bulb reversed the direction of the light and sent it back toward the base.

How about one of these?

 

[LunarMist]

How about one of these?

That looks like an incandescent lamp.

 

[Howell]

How about one of these?

Thanks,That would produce the right effect I think. Shame I can't find any in CFL or LED. LED would not even be bound to that shape necessarily because the light source is multipoint.

 

[Howell]

Not easy to find:
http://www.ledlight-ledbulb.com/html/LED-light-bulb/LED-Global-bulb-light/301.html

 

[mubs]

I thought incandescents weren't being sold in the US anymore?

 

[LunarMist]

I thought incandescents weren't being sold in the US anymore?

Not exactly. Certain common lamp styles are no longer available, such as the standard soft white 100w, 75w, 60W, etc., but special lamps including those with reflectors and appliance lamps are allowed.
Some states have more specific codes. New homes have a percentage of built in lights that cannot use incandescents (typically fluorescent, but LED is coming in).

 

[Stereodude]

I thought incandescents weren't being sold in the US anymore?

You can also still buy ones that are meant for "rough service".

 

[Bozo]

Not exactly. Certain common lamp styles are no longer available, such as the standard soft white 100w, 75w, 60W, etc., but special lamps including those with reflectors and appliance lamps are allowed.
Some states have more specific codes. New homes have a percentage of built in lights that cannot use incandescents (typically fluorescent, but LED is coming in).

I'm beginning to wonder if the bulb manufactures have found a loop hole. Every store that I've been in that sells light bulbs has an abundance of incandescent bulbs, even our local grocery store. You can even buy them by the case in most 'big box' stores. And the price has not gone which it should if there is a short supply.
There are more and more CFL and LED lamps on the shelves too. Maybe there a ton of the older bulbs still in warehouses??

 

[Bozo]

You can also still buy ones that are meant for "rough service".

I have a CFL bulb in my drop cord. It has lasted for at least 5 years, much longer than regular bulbs or so-called rough service bulbs. And it doesn't get hot which means you don't burn your hands and arms on it and it won't set the carpet or seats on fire.

 

[Howell]

I'm also currently struggling through researching replacing a bunch of 50w GU5.3 halogen track lighting with LED.

Problems:
The lumen levels are lower for led, meaning more lamps. The transformers in my old heads may not be compatible with led. The dimmers may not be compatible. I can't find led heads or even led electrically compatible heads. Led physical fit is not guaranteed.

I'm still looking at complete system replacement but that is really more than I wanted to get into at this time.

I have some options to play with for diy:
I have some heads with faulty transformers that I could switch in led compatible transformers for POC if I knew where to find them. Possibly I could convert one or more complete tracks to low voltage and use a non-transformed head.

An couple older interesting articles on the problem:
http://www.ledsmagazine.com/article...present-unique-driver-challenge-magazine.html

http://www.ledsmagazine.com/article...eady-for-the-50w-halogen-switch-magazine.html

 

[Stereodude]

I have a CFL bulb in my drop cord. It has lasted for at least 5 years, much longer than regular bulbs or so-called rough service bulbs. And it doesn't get hot which means you don't burn your hands and arms on it and it won't set the carpet or seats on fire.

But you have to put up with a bad CRI and perhaps an unpleasant color temperature in exchange for that.

 

[Stereodude]

I'm beginning to wonder if the bulb manufactures have found a loop hole. Every store that I've been in that sells light bulbs has an abundance of incandescent bulbs, even our local grocery store. You can even buy them by the case in most 'big box' stores. And the price has not gone which it should if there is a short supply.
There are more and more CFL and LED lamps on the shelves too. Maybe there a ton of the older bulbs still in warehouses??

There are some incandescent bulbs that meet the new energy requirements. They're basically a Halogen lamp in a conventional looking frosted incandescent globe. I'm not sure if that's what you've been seeing though.

 

[Bozo]

But you have to put up with a bad CRI and perhaps an unpleasant color temperature in exchange for that.

When I'm working under a dash, under the hood, or putting brakes on, the lamp color is a non issue. Maybe if your are looking for color coded wiring it would make a difference.

 

[ddrueding]

LED rope light is the best light for working under and in cars IMHO.

 

[mubs]

LED rope light is the best light for working under and in cars IMHO.

How so? Wouldn't the light be all over the place, including, most importantly, aimed at one's eyes?

 

[ddrueding]

I had a long, nicely worded post listing the benefits, but it was eaten and I got annoyed. The highlights:

1. Light gets everywhere, including the places you want it, without having to fuss.
2. Light is flexible, waterproof, and rubbery. Let it dangle from the hood through the engine bay to the floor and see everything. No worry about it hitting anything or getting dirty.
3. You can get it in nice color temps and CRIs, so you don't have to suffer.
4. Runs very cool, so you can have it right next to you.

If I'm working under the dash, I put it around my shoulders and under my head. This way it illuminates everything above me equally without being in my vision. Even if it is in front of you it is a diffuse source, so isn't as bad on the eyes as any other light would be.

 

[Bozo]

That's a great idea. It lights up a large area rather than a having a spot light effect. Cool.

 

[Howell]

I have a CFL bulb in my drop cord. It has lasted for at least 5 years, much longer than regular bulbs or so-called rough service bulbs. And it doesn't get hot which means you don't burn your hands and arms on it and it won't set the carpet or seats on fire.

Is that the kind with the socket surrounded by cage and hood?

Personally I use an led headlamp when working on the car. Hands free if you want and light precisely where you want it. Plus you can use it in many other contexts.

 

[Bozo]

Is that the kind with the socket surrounded by cage and hood?
.

Yes

 

[mubs]

Thanks DD. I must look into this.

 

[Tannin]

Might as well use this thread for a new question for the LED gurus.

I have an exterior light on a sensor switch. I can set it to function in the ordinary manual way, or to turn on automatically when the switch senses movement. I've had the sensor/switch combo there for 10 or 20 years and it works perfectly. The only problem is that it must do some sort of dirty electronic switching as although it works perfectly with an incandescent bulb, if you plug a CFL into the socket the bulb hates it. It is the only light fitting in a large, open area (outdoors but under a roof) and requires plenty of output - the 100W incandescent bulb I normally use there is only just enough.

Can I replace the globe with a LED globe? Or can I replace the globe and fitting with a LED panel - something like this: http://www.nationstar.com/eng/product_show.asp?id=802

I don't want to replace the sensor switch unless there is no alternative.

 

[time]

I know Tannin won't see this, but I'm in the mood to impart some wisdom, so who cares?

Simply making outdoor lighting brighter tends to be a mistake - you actually end up creating deeper shadows, which is very much counter-productive from a security standpoint. Anyone with a variable output flashlight should have some appreciation of the dilemma. In this case, *IF* the LED manufacturer specs are correct, you would be raising the brightness by 8 times!

(If I'm generous, I'd allow 1500 lumens @360*° from a brand new 100W incandescent with no frosting. In my view, inevitable discoloration and the massive filament shadowing mean it's not truly comparable with any modern lighting, but I digress. Resulting intensity would be an optimistic 119 cd (candela). The proposed replacement claims 3000 lm @120°, which yields a whopping 1080 cd! They're normally sold as a "floodlight".)

On top of the intensity, there's the color temperature to consider. The incandescent will be just under 3000°K (yellowish, i.e. "warm white"), whereas I'll bet that of the 3 LED panel options listed, the actual one available is the cheapest to produce: 6000°K (slightly bluish, i.e. "daylight"). That would be fine in a brightly-lit indoors situation, but outside, it tends to make the shadows appear even sharper-edged. For security purposes in full darkness, 'warmer' light is less distracting to human vision (much as I hate to admit it).

The best way to solve illumination problems is through careful direction of your light sources. Ideally, you want them close to whatever you're trying to illuminate. Failing that, spread your sources apart. If you can't do anything else, use *shielded* spots, but expect strong shadows.

Regarding the original query, a 'dimmable' LED bulb might work OK, but it's a $30 gamble in Oz. Unfortunately, I can't test this because my own sensor switches (cheap Arlec units) don't have a problem with any bulb.

Final warning for anyone reading this is that 99% of LED bulbs are more directional than the 120-150° they might claim. Most outdoor lights present the side of the bulb as the light source, so efficiency-wise, LEDs have to defer to CFL in this situation.

 

[ddrueding]

CFL bulbs in general are very finicky. If your motion sensor even twitched away from full brightness as part of the relay many CFLs wouldn't work at all. As Time said, a dimmable bulb/light source might be needed.

I'm a big fan of LED lighting panels. The shadows are soft and the light itself isn't as hard to look at.

 

[Howell]

As popular as GU5.3 bulbs are in various vertical markets around the world I'm disappointed to find that there is not yet an affordable LED replacement for halogen. $50/bulb is not economical for a small business, especially as long as halogen bulbs are on the shelves.

I found what appears to be a thorough LED review site in ledbenchmark.com which is run by the same people who run passmark software. I hope that with standardized testing and exposure the manufacturers will improve the claim to performance ratio.

 

[iGary]

I bought one of these about 6 months ago to put inside a caged safety light.

Bright as hell, and only $7.95 at Wallyworld. They had 5000K as well as 6500K varieties (blue tag versus orange tag on box). Moths just love this thing!

I believe these are actually manufactured by GE.

http://www.walmart.com/ip/Great-Value-GVRLAS11W27KND-Great-Value-LED-Light-Bulb-Soft-White/25524369

 

[iGary]

Just by chance, when I was clearing out my e-mail spam bucket, I saw a "deal' on a bulk pack of 4-each LED light bulbs, for $30 + free shipping.

Only problem is you have just 3 measly hours left to snag these, at 23:00 (-6GMT). :erm:

http://www.neweggflash.com/Campaign/2347

 

[Tannin]

I bought a few different LED bulbs to try out. One hates the switch, another one seems to work fine on manual, and works fine on auto when the motion sensor is ON, but goes spastic when it's off. OK, sure, the switch/sensor is 20-30 years old and should be replaced with something better, but I can't find a drop-in replacement anywhere, not even on-line. The leftover LED bulbs can get used in other rooms.

As a temporary measure, I've fitted a halogen globe instead of the old-style incandescent one (only 30% better power consumption, but that's the only thing that will work with this switch, so 30% will have to do). Later on, I'll replace it with a small, not-too-bright halogen bulb and get the main sitting-and-reading light from a second fitting.

So I need a second light and a second switch (just an ordinary manual switch for this one). This means I'll have to rip the wall paneling out and install more cabling. Yuk! I just spent a week sanding and priming and painting that wall! Now I'll have to do it again. Sob. I bought one of those panels I linked to earlier (not the exact one, a slightly smaller square one about 600mm on each side.) It's very nice. I'll probably use that. And I think I'll get another one as well, for the kitchen. (I like heaps of light when I'm cooking - I can't stand dim fumbly kitchens.)

 

[ddrueding]

It might be easier for you to go with a wireless switch solution like Insteon before opening up that wall. Not sure if they have a version to deal with your super-deadly-double-voltage you have down there, maybe to fend off all the spiders and snakes?

 

[CougTek]

I bought 4 Cree bulbs like this one. They are installed, but it's still daytime here, so I can't judge how good they are. The CRI is low (80), but the other specifications are quite ok for me and the price was hard to beat (~5$ each after the local electrical distributor discount).

They look a lot like the first bulb Gary linked, but those mine are made by Cree.

 

[CougTek]

It is night time and I absolutely don't regret my purchase. Great lighting.

 

[Stereodude]

Anyone tried the 4' linear LED shop light style fixtures? Costco has these in store for $29.99 each. http://www.costco.com/4’-Linkable-LED-Shop-Light-with-Pull-Chain-2-pack.product.100284402.html

They used to have a more efficient 38W version. I'm not entirely sure why they've moved to a less efficient version, but I'd guess it's a cost savings measure.

I'm thinking to put a few in my garage on the ceiling to replace a very basic 100W incandescent bulb. I have to replace the A19 socket with a GFCI outlet since these need an outlet and can't be hardwired.

 

[timwhit]

I bought something pretty similar to that at my local hardware store for my workroom in the basement. It works fine.

 

[Stereodude]

Anyone tried the 4' linear LED shop light style fixtures? Costco has these in store for $29.99 each. http://www.costco.com/4’-Linkable-LED-Shop-Light-with-Pull-Chain-2-pack.product.100284402.html

So I noticed they were $23.99 in store today. Some sort of promotion that expires today. I bought the five I wanted for my upgraded garage lighting.

 

[timwhit]

So I noticed they were $23.99 in store today. Some sort of promotion that expires today. I bought the five I wanted for my upgraded garage lighting.

That's a good price based on what I paid for a similar light. How do you like them?

 

[Stereodude]

That's a good price based on what I paid for a similar light. How do you like them?

You don't know me very well. They're so in the box.

 

[timwhit]

You don't know me very well. They're so in the box.

How do the boxes look?