July 22nd Intel price drops

[P5-133XL]

Because of the planned Intel price cuts for the Q6600's I am seriously considering replacing my three Dell 3200 P4 machines with new Q6600's with builds very similar to CougTek's build without the x1950's.

Based on this, my recommendation would be the following :

• 
  Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600 (4x 2.4GHz) LGA775
  Thermalright Ultra 120 eXtreme heatsink
  Scythe S-FLEX SSF21E (mod to 7V) or similar
  Gigabyte GA-965P-DS3 (solid capacitors, lacks Firewire, if it's important to you)
  2GB DDR2 667MHZ, or 1066MHz if you plan to overclock. 667MHz is almost half the price.
  Sapphire Radeon X1950 Pro 512MB PCI-E (X1950XT doesn't increase FAH production, I know : I own both)
  500GB hard drive, because it's cheap. 250GB if you want to cut corners.
  Pioneer SATA 18X DVD burner

• 
  
  There's absolutely nothing wrong with the Dell machines. They do their necessary function. The cost to folding performance ratio's are just too great for me to ignore: They will be cheaper to operate and produce aprox. 14x more (around 3,200PPD each vs 220PPD) I may wait till AMD comes out with their quad processor, just to see how that performs before choosing.
  
  I find it ironic that Coug asks about the freefall in RAM prices when what I've noticed is the continued freefall in CPU prices. I rather expected the DDR2 RAM prices to drop when AMD went DDR2 because of the ecconomies of scale that occur when world wide RAM production was no longer split between DDR and DDR2. It took a while, but I'm sure that is the real cause for the RAM price fall. But I'm somewhat surprised that Intel is still dropping CPU prices, rather than trying to take a bit of profit to keep short-term investors happy. Offhand, I feel Intel wants to outright bankrupt AMD first: In the long run very bad for the consumer but very good for Intel ...

 

[CougTek]

What will you use instead of the X1950 Pro? A cheapo GeFarce 7200GS or X1050?

Even with the recent price drop regarding processors, I'm still able to make money out of it. What sells is and has been for a while CPUs between 100$ and 200$. That still exists, they are only faster. RAM price is too low now for me to make money. More expensive memory modules don't bring enough speed improvement to the average user to justify the significant cost increase, so I can't sell those.

Quad-core AMD processors will be both too expensive and arrive too late to save AMD from a disastrous year.

 

[CougTek]

Oh and opt for a motherboard with the new P35 chipset from Intel. The memory controller is quite a bit better than the one on the 965P. Now, the supply of P35-based motherboards is scarse, but it won't be at the end of July.

Get one with the DDR2 slots. Fast DDR2 modules give better performances at lower prices than the early DDR3 memory modules.

 

[P5-133XL]

Yes, I will get a low-end video card or maybe reuse the x1300's that are in my Dells: I just see no reason to signifigently increase my operating electricity costs by using a x1950. Yes, I do recognize that the p35 chipset is very good, performance wise: I read all the Antech articles too. I'll make that decision at build time, just like the DDR2/DDR3 decision because that may change by July too.

My current thinking is that I'll just sell/donate the Dells. The other alternative is to turn them into dedicated GPU folding machines, but that is harder to rationalize.

 

[Fushigi]

You know, I was pretty much set to pull the trigger and buy everything. But if I can save over $250 or get a faster CPU for the same price by waiting 2 months I'd be silly not to.

 

[CougTek]

I'll delay my new system until the Q6600 price drop too. So there will be at least one Q6600 from me, one for Fushigi and... depending on how much P5-133XL is whiling to withdraw from his RRSP... a whole lot more for P5-133XL. Let's say three (although I'm sure he won't limit himself to a small trio) ; that'll make an additional 5x 3200ppd to our collective effort. We're talking about more than 16K ppd. Not bad.

Who wants to bet LiamC won't let himself be distanced and join the crazy money-throwing quad cores folders?

 

[LiamC]

Who wants to bet LiamC won't let himself be distanced and join the crazy money-throwing quad cores folders?

Busted

I just sold my remaining E4300 and I am going to replace it with an E6420. Then I looked at the Q6600 (AUS$660) and thought "hmm, that's not bad." Then I remembered the price drop and thought that'd be foolish. That triggered the urge to drop be SF—and see what new posts there were

Yep, come July, I'll replace the E6420 with one.

Then again, we should know what Barcelona has in store by then...

 

[CougTek]

The Core 2 Quad Q6600 drop 100$ on my price lists today. Still not the July 22nd price, but one third of the road is done.

 

[P5-133XL]

They really shoot themselves in the foot when signifigent price decreases are announanced months in advance: People hold off on their purchases and all buy them when its cheap. If they didn't announance, then some of them would buy at the higher price ...

 

[Bozo]

I have a brand new Gigabyte motherboard sitting here waiting for a CPU. Don't know if I can hold off until late July...:crap:

Bozo :joker:

 

[ddrueding]

They really shoot themselves in the foot when signifigent price decreases are announanced months in advance: People hold off on their purchases and all buy them when its cheap. If they didn't announance, then some of them would buy at the higher price ...

I have a brand new Gigabyte motherboard sitting here waiting for a CPU. Don't know if I can hold off until late July...:crap:

Bozo :joker:

No doubt the reason for the $100 off starting now. I wouldn't be surprised if they did the rest of the declared cut as a series of drops to entice the impatient.

 

[LiamC]

They really shoot themselves in the foot when signifigent price decreases are announanced months in advance: People hold off on their purchases and all buy them when its cheap. If they didn't announance, then some of them would buy at the higher price ...

I tend to disagree. To enthusiasts, this is "common" knowledge. To the vast majority of purchasers, they wouldn't know about them.

 

[CougTek]

...announanced....

Is this only a comic way to say "announced" or is it another english word I've never encountered before? This is the second time I noticed you use this word.

 

[Will Rickards]

I've already got my wishlist saved at newegg and ready to purchase when the prices come down.

How do RAM prices look coug? staying flat or going up?

 

[P5-133XL]

Is this only a comic way to say "announced" or is it another english word I've never encountered before? This is the second time I noticed you use this word.

No, just my consistant mis-spelling ...

 

[CougTek]

RAM went up slightly. 2$ more for a gigabyte of DDR2 667MHz. Higher speed grades became a lot cheaper last month, but now the progression is flat. Regular DDR dropped during the last two weeks by ~10%.

 

[Wavemaker]

As far as Core2 Duo and Core2 Quadro processors go, I think I'd wait until the ones based on 45nm manufacturing technology start shipping. This is *especially* true for mobile applications.

The upcoming processors based on 45nm technology will be faster yet, less expensive, and use much less power.

The greatest benefit with the upcoming processors based on 45nm technology -- compared with today's Core2 processors based on 65nm technology -- will be less power consumed (i.e. -- less heat).

 

[Wavemaker]

PS: Since we are speaking of "modern" X86 systems, I'm really disappointed so far with the offerings of mobo and system manufacturers with respects to utilising EFI (Extensible Firmware Interface).

To my knowledge, only Apple and Gateway have taken advantage of the great potential that EFI offers. Gateway has occasionally produced systems using EFI and Apple had no choice but to use EFI when they ported the Mac ROM code to the Intel platform. Outside of these two, it's basically been zilch, zed, zero -- at least to my knowledge -- for implementing EFI in a meaningful way.

Besides replacing the increasingly-ancient BIOS, EFI can have built-in "life saving" utilities, such as the ability to perform a variety of offline (or even online) diagnostics, aid in the installation of an operating system, have a user-defined bit of space for settings, logs, and more. For example, a mobo manufacturer could install a Phoenix, AMI, or Award *EFI* that would be tailor fit to the mobo, or a mobo series. In the EFI could be a Knoppix (or BSD) build that could run several diagnostics without having to boot to an operating system. You could also run vital operations such as disc imaging routines for migrating an operating system on a failing hard drive to a new drive.

The EFI experience seems to be a lot like the recent PATA-to-SATA transition for CD/DVD drives. It seems that none of the manufacturers want to mess with EFI unless the proverbial gun is pointed in their direction (by Intel? Microsoft?), thus making them transition.

 

[udaman]

As far as Core2 Duo and Core2 Quadro processors go, I think I'd wait until the ones based on 45nm manufacturing technology start shipping. This is *especially* true for mobile applications.

The upcoming processors based on 45nm technology will be faster yet, less expensive, and use much less power.

The greatest benefit with the upcoming processors based on 45nm technology -- compared with today's Core2 processors based on 65nm technology -- will be less power consumed (i.e. -- less heat).

It also remains to be seen how agressive Intel will be in their upping the stakes with more powerful integrated GPU's rumored to be in the works, as competition for Nvidia &AMD/ATI. Lets not also forget with Penryn (45nm process mobile) the Monteviña chipset is rumored to support more energy efficient DDR3 800Mhz RAM, as well as a possible 1033Mhz FSB, IIRC. Still won't be up to desktop performance, but a nice bump in performance over current C2D laptops. Without question though, the greatest performance bump on the laptop front with be later in 2008 with the inclusion of the optional SSD's for those highend users who don't need max. capacity but want greater than HDD 15k rpm performance.

Damn WM, the guy knows his shit :diablo: almost make SF, not so boring

 

[Fushigi]

Sorry; I don't follow CPU roadmaps anymore. With the 45nm chips, what's the expected time frame and will they be Socket 775?

 

[CougTek]

E.O.T.Y.

 

[LiamC]

My understanding is that parts are ready to roll. They will be available when Barcelona ships. The obvious differentiators are 6MB cache vs 4MB and faster busses.

 

[Fushigi]

Well then I won't wait to upgrade another box in my folding farm.

 

[LiamC]

For quad cores, I think the larger L2 will be a huge boost.

On another note, The Inq is saying that Barcelona will ship mid/end of August

http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=40465

That would be the server version. Every roadmap I've seen has stated desktop availability 3 months later.

 

[LiamC]

Hmm. Those July 22 price cuts seem judiciously well timed...

 

[Wavemaker]

Sorry; I don't follow CPU roadmaps anymore. With the 45nm chips, what's the expected time frame and will they be Socket 775?

Core2 microprocessors based on 45nm manufacturing technology are to begin arriving 4Q/2007. They will use LGA775 -- same as what's used now. Code words for these "Penryn" technology microprocessors for the desktop are: "Wolfdale" (dual-core) and "Yorkfield" (quad-core).

Otherwise, it pays to follow those increasingly obfuscated roadmaps -- for both microprocessors and chipsets.

I was just looking over your original specifications, followed by the various responses and recommendations in the "Building new FAH/main PC" subject.


The Conclusion (my snotty opinion, of course) :zzz:

You actually would have been better off NOT getting any mobo based on the 965 chipset (a.k.a. -- "Broadwater"). Instead, you should have bought a mobo based on the recently-issued P35 chipset (a.k.a. -- "Bearslake"). The P35 chipset is superior to the 965 chipset in every way. Mobos based on the P35 chipset became available starting the last half of May. Pricing is about the same for mobos based on either 965 or P35 chipset. Mobos based on P35 will run all generations of (65nm) Conroe, Kentsfield, and Allendale at their full FSB speeds (all the way up to 1333 MHz), as well as run the first generation of (45nm) Wolfdale and Yorkfield.

Using the popular NewEgg, here's a selection of 16 mobos from Abit, Gigabyte, Asus, MSI, and Biostar using the P35 chipset:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128050 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813121314

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813130095 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813138075

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813127031 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813186119

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128048 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813130098

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813127029 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131180

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128048 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128047

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813127030 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131182

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131181 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128046

 

[Wavemaker]

My understanding is that parts are ready to roll. They will be available when Barcelona ships. The obvious differentiators are 6MB cache vs 4MB and faster busses.

Are you speaking of Intel's 45nm processors (a.k.a. -- "Penryn")?

Barring a manufacturing problem, I suspect AMD Barcelona will beat Penryn.

In any case, the medium-term future for AMD on the desktop looks to be a bit grim. Once Penryn processors begin churning out in full force, Intel will have a desktop microprocessor for every price range -- absolutely dirt cheap but reasonably peppy little "Celery" processors (probably using just the name "Pentium" ...incredibly ) right on up to fierce dual-core and quad-core processors. However, AMD will have a stronghold at the top of the server processor market, since Intel Xeons still don't scale well above 2 sockets compared to AMD Opterons. But, that will probably change once Xeons based on Nahalem processor technology shows up in 2009 -- with CSI "Quick Path" to challenge HyperTransport.

 

[Wavemaker]

[BUMP]

.

 

[LiamC]

Are you speaking of Intel's 45nm processors (a.k.a. -- "Penryn")?

Barring a manufacturing problem, I suspect AMD Barcelona will beat Penryn.

In any case, the medium-term future for AMD on the desktop looks to be a bit grim. Once Penryn processors begin churning out in full force, Intel will have a desktop microprocessor for every price range -- absolutely dirt cheap but reasonably peppy little "Celery" processors (probably using just the name "Pentium" ...incredibly ) right on up to fierce dual-core and quad-core processors. However, AMD will have a stronghold at the top of the server processor market, since Intel Xeons still don't scale well above 2 sockets compared to AMD Opterons. But, that will probably change once Xeons based on Nahalem processor technology shows up in 2009 -- with CSI "Quick Path" to challenge HyperTransport.

Yep. Penryn, Wolfdale et.al. Actually, Intel quad core chips will have 12MB cache as they are still 2 cores on one die.


Barcelona > Wolfdale? Will depend on workload and the clock speed AMD can deliver. In 4S/8S configs, Barcelona all the way. Barcelona will be doable in 8S as well.

 

[Fushigi]

Re: Wavemaker's 'conclusion':

I don't have any buyers remorse. I don't tend to upgrade CPUs without also upgrading the motherboard and unless there's a significant performance difference I won't feel bad about using the 965.

But it is good to keep in mind for the next round.

 

[Pradeep]

Given Intel's past performance with motherboard backward compatibility, I would never consider it a factor when buying an Intel mobo.

 

[CougTek]

Thanks for taking the time to make the P35 motherboard list, Wavemaker. Out of the 16 boards, the MSI Neo2-FSR packs a lot of features for the price. The Gigabyte boards are expensive. Asus boards too. 135$ seems like the bottom price to get a good board with decent overclocking features.

I noticed Asus and Gigabyte warranties are down to 1 year. They were 3 years not long ago. When did that change?

 

[Bozo]

This is interesting:

http://www.digitimes.com/NewsShow/MailHome.asp?datePublish=2007/6/20&pages=PD&seq=222

Hopefully it will drive Core-2-Duo prices to bargan basement prices.

Bozo :joker:

 

[CougTek]

How do RAM prices look coug? staying flat or going up?

RAM price increased a lot during the last two days. +7$ for 1Go DDR2 667MHz.

 

[Will Rickards]

Whew, good thing I bought a couple weeks ago. I bought some decently priced 667 without a mail-in rebate. I only bought it then because I heard it was going up and didn't want to get sticker shock around july 22nd when I get the MB/Proc/Case.

 

[Wavemaker]

This is interesting:

http://www.digitimes.com/NewsShow/MailHome.asp?datePublish=2007/6/20&pages=PD&seq=222

Hopefully it will drive Core-2-Duo prices to bargan basement prices.

Interesting.

So if they intend to ramp up 1333 MHz Core2 (non-Xeon) this early, it looks like there's a decent possibility the upcoming X38 chipset (with Version 2 PCI Express slots!) will support 1600 MHz FSB along with an upper-crusty line of 45nm Core2 (non-Xeon) processors supporting 1600 Mhz FSB.

In other words, "Wolfdale" (the desktop 45nm Core2) could start off being available in three FSB tiers: 1600 MHz (deluxe and eXtreme), 1333 MHz (mainstream), and 1066 MHz (economy).

 

[LunarMist]

All these CPU types are confusing. Does this mean I can reasonably upgrade from 2006 model E6700 to something faster in the same MB?

 

[ddrueding]

Version 2 PCI Express? Now I know I haven't been reading enough...

 

[Bozo]

All these CPU types are confusing. Does this mean I can reasonably upgrade from 2006 model E6700 to something faster in the same MB?

I would imagine that would depend on the motherbaord and chipset.

Bozo :joker:

 

[LunarMist]

It is an Asus and the BIOS indicates 975X and 82801 of some sort. Does that mean anything? I can't remember the exact model anymore and disassembly is a pain.