Keyboards

[Sol]

DD: Is it really double the value of the these?

http://pckeyboards.stores.yahoo.net/customizer.html

I am loosing a keyboard, so this topic is timely....

Probably not straight up double the value no. With the Das Keyboard you do pay a bit extra for the geek cachet of a keyboard without labels. But in the end, although both are aimed at the keyboard enthusiast market I think the difference in the technologies used will mean that few people would go for the buckling springs option because it's cheaper, they'll choose it because they prefer buckling springs keyboards to cherry black switches. Either keyboard is going to last for a hell of a long time so getting the one you like to type on better is generally going to be more important for most people (who are looking at buying one) than the price.

 

[ddrueding]

Sol nailed it. I prefer a keyboard with buckling springs, and I prefer one that is fairly quiet. That one qualifies as both.

 

[time]

Eh? Which one?

Buckling spring keyboards sure as hell ain't quiet. Neither are most Cherry MX switch keyboards for that matter.

Sol, the DAS use MX Blue for clicky and MX Brown for 'silent' - not MX Black, which is a different feel altogether.

And in case anyone missed it, the "Professional" DAS models have the lettering that is missing on the "Ultimate" models.

 

[LunarMist]

Yeah I know, but the unlabeled ones were the oddity that I noticed.

 

[Stereodude]

I went to Frys today. They had a Lenovo on display and I really disliked the trackball. Stereodude is spot-on in his assessment.

So Lenovo has come out with a 2nd generation unit. It is backlit and replaces the ball with an IR trackpad / virtual trackball like is found on later Blackberry phones. link

Youtube Preview w/ comparison to the first gen unit

It's currently $39.99 after coupon code: USP1S36678

 

[LunarMist]

The bottom is not flat. How stable is that (3-pointer?) on a slippery coffee table for example?

 

[Santilli]

NOT a keyboard. Start your own thread. I don't want to look at that POS when I'm considering a new keyboard.

 

[Mercutio]

NOT a keyboard. Start your own thread. I don't want to look at that POS when I'm considering a new keyboard.

It looks like a keyboard to me.

Keyboards are not hard. You decide if you want one that's clicky or soft, whether you need a big return and backspace, wireless or not and if so, what kind.

I almost always buy Logitech, though I'm told that Microsoft is far and away the way to go for standard desktop wireless keyboards.

 

[Santilli]

OK:
Coffee on the keyboard, and dead O key.
Brought the MSFT keyboard from the other room, but, it's on it's last legs, as well.
Enter and shift keys are horrible.

I went first to this website:
http://store.sealshield.com/silver-storm--keyboard-ps2-p99.aspx
and ordered one of these. However, after I hit the send button, I noticed they are back ordered.

So, I found this thread. Ordered one of the spring keyboards:
http://pckeyboards.stores.yahoo.net/en104bl.html

Hope it lives up to it's billing.

Ordered a couple cheap ones recommended in this thread as well, one from Logitech, for about 11 bucks, and another from Kennsington, for about the same.

Reviews to follow.

 

[CougTek]

Wow, there are still people ordering PS/2 keyboards. I thought only museums did. Fascinating.

 

[Adcadet]

Microsoft ergonomic 4000. Best split keyboard I know of. Would love to find a back-light split keyboard.

 

[Mercutio]

Wow, there are still people ordering PS/2 keyboards. I thought only museums did. Fascinating.

I still buy quite a lot of them. Mostly because there's still a price difference between the USB keyboards and PS/2 versions of the keyboards I like and I'll be damned if I pay an extra $3 just to use a different connector.

 

[LunarMist]

Wow, there are still people ordering PS/2 keyboards. I thought only museums did. Fascinating.

People like Greg keep them in business. I'm sure that older commercial systems need replacements once in a while too, and there may not be USB ports free or there may be some other reason not to use USB.

 

[MaxBurn]

I'm still using the pckeyboards/unicomp customizer. I guess it lasted about a year and a half to two years so far. Still works like new.

 

[ddrueding]

I can't, as most of my systems don't have PS/2 ports anymore.

 

[Santilli]

Gamers seem to think PS2 is less stress on the cpu, and, as long as you have a port, my experience has also been that when SHTF, it's a lot easier to have a keyboard that works in the bios, rather then after.

Yes, I have adapters, but see no reason to go to them.

Thanks Maxburn. I was reluctant to spend actually 90 dollars, or more, on a keyboard, with shipping etc. Is the board sealed? ever spilled anything on it, like coffee? I just did that today for the first time in a long time.

I have noticed that once in awhile, something that I have plugged into USB seems to overload it, slowing stuff down. No reason to put a keyboard on the USB bus, when I don't need to.
I rip blurays using a USB external drive. I suspect that might just tax it a bit.

Maxburn, I was going to go with the customizer, but, my cat is rather large, and, the extra keyboard size from the current one would keep her from curling up and sleeping in front of the monitor.
Hence the smaller version.

 

[LunarMist]

What ancient MB are you using with no USB KB support in the BIOS?

 

[MaxBurn]

I don't know about sealed but there aren't any drain holes. I have spilled a little coffee and tea on it but not much and it did nothing to it. I have a feeling you could take it apart and clean it if you did flood it.

I'm sold enough on pricey keyboards that the next one is going to be one of the quieter cherry ones. Might take more than a couple years to need it though.

 

[snowhiker]

I'm still using the pckeyboards/unicomp customizer. I guess it lasted about a year and a half to two years so far. Still works like new.

My ps/2 Unicomp is dated Nov '04. Still responds to keystrokes like it did in '04. It's a tank. And that's a good thing as people always say to me, "Why are you pounding your keyboard." I'm not a light typist.

 

[Gilbo]

Microsoft ergonomic 4000. Best split keyboard I know of. Would love to find a back-light split keyboard.

++

They're the bomb. Only problem is they take up a lot of desk space and don't work as well for people with medium or small hands. I wish there was a smaller version.

 

[Santilli]

First two keyboards came in. Typing this on the K120. Feels like a cheap, working, Logitech keyboard. Better then no keyboard, which is what I had.

So, turning this one off, and going in the other room to use the Kennsington spill proof.

This keyboard works, but I don't really like it. Still, out of the box, it was better then the last set of MSFT keyboards, one of which has a sticking shift enter key combination.

I don't like the fact that it's not PS/2. I have only four usb ports on the back of this computer, and had to unplug the Bluetooth antenna to put it on the back of the computer.

 

[ddrueding]

Depending on which computer you are using, there are between 2 and 4 USB headers on the motherboard. Using these will add more without needing to resort to hubs and the like, these are native ports of the motherboard.

 

[Santilli]

Kensington keyboard for life. At least it came with a PS/2 adapter. Feels just like the other keyboard. Still, no sticking keys works.

Only complaint on these is shipping is getting a bit expensive.

Amazon shipping and handling, something I thought would go down if I bought two keyboards, was 18.10. The keyboard cost was 23.96.

Not sure I'm really good with that.

That said, I did need two new keyboards, or, at least working ones.

See how the others work.

 

[Santilli]

I hope, for 40 dollars, this keyboard has better keys, besides being spill proof.
I do like the idea of being able to put the keyboard in the dishwasher:

http://store.sealshield.com/silver-storm--keyboard-ps2-p99.aspx

 

[Santilli]

Seal Shield came in. It's just a hair better then the Kennsington keyboard. It did come with a little water proof box to put the connector in when you wash it.

Overall, it isn't noticeably better then the 10-15 dollar keyboards. Being spill proof, it may stay on the main desktop. We'll see when the next one comes in. Overall, it's ok, but the keys are not all that great, and certainly not up to their advertizing.

 

[Santilli]

"PS/2 or USB?
PS/2 wins on three fronts: First, it supports full n-key rollover. Second, PS/2 keyboards aren't polled, but are completely interrupt based. And third, it is impossible for it to be delayed by the USB bus being used by other devices. There are two types of USB transfer modes - the interrupt transfer mode (USB polls keyboard, when key is sensed the USB controller sends the interrupt to the CPU), and the isochronous transfer mode, which reserves a certain amount of bandwidth for the keyboard with a guaranteed latency on the bus. Unfortunately, there are absolutely no keyboards made that use the latter, because special controllers would have to be used, thus making it cost prohibitive.

So if your keyboard supports both PS/2 and USB, and your PC has a PS/2 port, there's no reason not to use it."

MORE then I ever wanted to know about keyboards:

http://www.overclock.net/t/491752/mechanical-keyboard-guide#post_6025204

 

[Santilli]

Hmmmm. Unicomp keyboard came in. Reminds me of all those IBM buckling spring keyboards. Noisy, kind of a weird cheap plastic scraping against plastic feel.

Still, my typing seems much faster and the rebound on the keys is much faster. Little doubt that's due to the rather large spring rebounding the key, despite the fact that the key actually takes more effort to depress then the cheap keyboards.

 

[Santilli]

Getting used to the Unicomp. I hate to say it, but going back to the cheap, Kensington 120
feels horrible. I hate it. I didn't realize how comfortable, despite the noise, the buckling spring keyboard makes me feel. Spent a LOT of time typing on this type of board.

Anyone have suggestions for something with a bit less noise, less cheap feel?

That said, this thing is worth the extra money over the cheaper keyboards, or will be until I spill coffee on it.

 

[CougTek]

Anyone have suggestions for something with a bit less noise, less cheap feel?

Why? Is the clicking noise disturbing the cats?

 

[Santilli]

CAT.

No, but I spend a lot of time on speaker phone, and it is noticeable.

 

[MaxBurn]

Yeah, especially as I like the speakerphone people on the other end heat it quite clearly. I get complimented on my typing speed though.

I might do one of these next.

http://elitekeyboards.com/products.php?sub=topre_keyboards

The Realforce 103UB employs Topre's unique capacitive tactile key switches with 3 levels of pressure sensitivity in an ergonomically distributed layout to provide the most comfortable typing experience available in a standard flat keyboard.

Topre capacitive key switches are a patented hybrid between a mechanical spring based switch, a rubber dome switch, and a capacitive sensor that combined provide tactility, comfort, and excellent durability. The unique electrostatic design of Topre switches requires no physical mechanical coupling and therefore, theoretically, key switch bounce/chatter are eliminated.

I don't like the sound of that as it sounds squishey but people swear by them, I would like to try one before buying of course. I like the buckling spring as you know exactly when the keypress happened by feel and you can tell typos without even looking.

 

[Santilli]

I just spent sometime cruizing some keyboard forums. Seems the buckling spring is the Holy Grail to a lot of people who have tried a lot of different switch types. Even though some keyboards are way more expensive, the buckling springs seem to have the most loyal following, and the least bad keyswitches.

Maybe a buckling spring keyboard, but something heavier, with a less plastic type feel?

Still, this Unicomp is WAY better then any of the others, and really helps my typing speed.

 

[Santilli]

Appears what I have is about as good as it gets. Same as the IBM Model M's. Some of these were made in 1985 and still going? WTF?:-0

One of those areas where throwing more money at it doesn't make it better.

 

[Mercutio]

When people who get really, legitimately snobby about keyboards, the discussion pretty much begins and ends with IBM Model Ms and Northgate Omnikey keyboards. I bought a friend a Model M clone a couple years ago and she's told me since it's worth whatever price I paid for it.

 

[BingBangBop]

I sold all (4) of my Northgate Omnikey keyboards for $130-$110 each about a year ago. All of them were having issues with individual keys (I had been swapping them out till there were no more working properly). I contacted a refurbisher specializing in them, for repair but I decided to sell them to the refurbisher rather than pay him to repair them for me. I sold them for more than I bought them for 20+ years ago, even though they were having issues.

Now I'm typing on generic Dell keyboards that I collected off systems I sold that the customer wanted his original keyboard, rather than the Dell.

 

[CougTek]

Now I'm typing on generic Dell keyboards that I collected off systems I sold that the customer wanted his original keyboard, rather than the Dell.

The customer had an attachment to his germs?

 

[BingBangBop]

Don't know about that, but keyboards preferences are very significant to some. I know that I much prefer Northgate's but the Dell's are good enough.

I do know that those beige Northgate's could certainly get very grungy. Every few years I'd have to spend an evening with a Q-tip and rubbing alcohol to clean them even though I'm not a clean-freak.

 

[MaxBurn]

I don't mind a $6 dell keyboard very much but it only lasts like three months before the shift and control keys start sticking because they are wide and don't have the cross/swaybar support for an off center key press. They do start off mushy like any other membrane keyboard though.

 

[MaxBurn]

Spotted this for sale cheap:

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1307727

 

[Santilli]

I'm really getting addicted to this buckling spring spacesaver Unicomp.

VERY COOL.