Mirrorless Cameras (MILC) and Lenses

[snowhiker]

What Canon will announce September 5th.

EOS R MILC and specs.

List of what Canon is announcing on the 5th. RF (the new MILC mount lenses), EF and EF-M lenses.

Looks like Canon will continue to be #1 in DSLR and MILC sales for the time being.

 

[LunarMist]

What Canon will announce September 5th.

EOS R MILC and specs.

List of what Canon is announcing on the 5th. RF (the new MILC mount lenses), EF and EF-M lenses.

Looks like Canon will continue to be #1 in DSLR and MILC sales for the time being.

It looks like a cheap body with limited controls like those of a 6D series rather than a 5D series. Since it has an abnormal mount and there is not enough room on the top or side for some lenses, I suppose the advantageous uses will be limited to the shorter lenses. It will probably be sold in a kit form at the Best Buy. :lol:

 

[Stereodude]

What Canon will announce September 5th.

EOS R MILC and specs.

List of what Canon is announcing on the 5th. RF (the new MILC mount lenses), EF and EF-M lenses.

Looks like Canon will continue to be #1 in DSLR and MILC sales for the time being.

But is that the previously rumored $1900 MILC body? A large number of people are speculating that's the MILC FF 5 series, not the MILC FF 6 series.

It seems rather promising and not immediately disappointing like pretty much all leaks of new Canon gear, but not to worry, Canon can still screw this up by gimping the video and other key features and overpricing it.

It looks like a cheap body with limited controls like those of a 6D series rather than a 5D series. Since it has an abnormal mount and there is not enough room on the top or side for some lenses, I suppose the advantageous uses will be limited to the shorter lenses. It will probably be sold in a kit form at the Best Buy. :lol:

No idea what you're smoking. It has a magnesium body... There's more room between the grip and the lens/mount for your fingers than any of the Sony's or the Nikon. The mount is the same diameter as the EF mount. It's a far cry from a $600 kit DSLR.

 

[LunarMist]

But is that the previously rumored $1900 MILC body? A large number of people are speculating that's the MILC FF 5 series, not the MILC FF 6 series.

It seems rather promising and not immediately disappointing like pretty much all leaks of new Canon gear, but not to worry, Canon can still screw this up by gimping the video and other key features and overpricing it.


No idea what you're smoking. It has a magnesium body... There's more room between the grip and the lens/mount for your fingers than any of the Sony's or the Nikon. The mount is the same diameter as the EF mount. It's a far cry from a $600 kit DSLR.

There is no indication it is more than the 6D class of body, though those categories are different with the Sony style this is trying to emulate.
The lack of AF joystick is a dead giveaway. There is nothing about the memory cards either, which is concerning.
A $2000 FF camera body is a cheap one.

 

[Stereodude]

There is no indication it is more than the 6D class of body, though those categories are different with the Sony style this is trying to emulate.
The lack of AF joystick is a dead giveaway. There is nothing about the memory cards either, which is concerning.

The lack of a joystick doesn't mean anything. It has a touchscreen. The 30MP indicates it's not a 6D class body.

A $2000 FF camera body is a cheap one.

Okay, then Mr. Moneybags...

 

[LunarMist]

The lack of a joystick doesn't mean anything. It has a touchscreen. The 30MP indicates it's not a 6D class body.


Okay, then Mr. Moneybags...

To me the joystick is the dividing line between the high grade and consumerish Canons for over ten years now. How are you expecting to use a touchscreen to select AF while using the viewfinder, holding a lens, and tracking the subjects over the frame?
The rear controls are limited in quantity and not in the best positions. We will have to see how they can be programmed. I also expect SD memory cards based on the tiny door and probably only one memory card slot.

 

[snowhiker]

I believe the new Canon is going to be their lower priced/tier'd FF MILC. Or perhaps somewhere between the Nikon Z6 and Z7.

I think the 50/1.2L and 28-70/2L are lenses designed for Canon's "5D level" MILC that will be announced in the future, and Canon is pushing out these pro lenses so their 5D MILC will have a full set of pro lenses when released. As mentioned on Canon Rumors, Canon has a patent for a 70-130/2 lens. Pair that lens with a fast-wide zoom, say a 14-28/2.8 and their, TBA later, 5D MILC will have 14-28/2.8, 28-70/2 and 70-130/2 PRO level lenses on release. Checkmate. Canon wins. Again.

 

[LunarMist]

I believe the new Canon is going to be their lower priced/tier'd FF MILC. Or perhaps somewhere between the Nikon Z6 and Z7.

I think the 50/1.2L and 28-70/2L are lenses designed for Canon's "5D level" MILC that will be announced in the future, and Canon is pushing out these pro lenses so their 5D MILC will have a full set of pro lenses when released. As mentioned on Canon Rumors, Canon has a patent for a 70-130/2 lens. Pair that lens with a fast-wide zoom, say a 14-28/2.8 and their, TBA later, 5D MILC will have 14-28/2.8, 28-70/2 and 70-130/2 PRO level lenses on release. Checkmate. Canon wins. Again.

Fast and wide lenses don't hold much interest, but I'm concerned about the replacement for the 5DsR and then the 5D IV. I don't see any hope for Canon being able to replace 50+ lenses in my useful lifetime.
For example, they just came out with the new 50/100/135 mm TSE lenses with exceptional IQ that will easily handle the next generation of higher res sensors. I don't know if they work on the new bodies. The 17 and 24 II TSE lenses don't fit well with the EF-S cropper bodies for example as the knobs crash.
My experiences with lens mount adapters is that they don't work very well at longer focal lengths due to the lack of necessary of precision. Canon can barely get the lens, body, and imaging sensor in the same plane as it is. :crap:

 

[LunarMist]

^^^^ About the same as the Z6. Except the Z6 is only 5.5 fps with full AF/AE, instead of the listed 12 fps.

It looks like the Canon only does 5FPS with continuous AF and 9FPS without AF. Just brilliant. That is slower than the 6D II's 6.5 FPS with AF. :scratch:

 

[Stereodude]

It looks like the Canon only does 5FPS with continuous AF and 9FPS without AF. Just brilliant. That is slower than the 6D II's 6.5 FPS with AF. :scratch:

Canon just can't stop being Canon. It's in their nature to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory by artificially limiting the performance of their models so that they have at least one Achilles heel so they don't release a superior model that undercuts an existing one on price. That's how you get a brand new $2k camera that is missing features found on the $630 model.

 

[LunarMist]

Canon just can't stop being Canon. It's in their nature to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory by artificially limiting the performance of their models so that they have at least one Achilles heel so they don't release a superior model that undercuts an existing one on price. That's how you get a brand new $2k camera that is missing features found on the $630 model.

I suspect they chose the 5D IV sensor or a variant for timing and/or economy reasons. AF in LV mode was also slower than normal PD (4.5 vs 7 FPS). It's not clear if the sensor will implement micro PD for AF assist or if AF will consist of only the dual pixels that are a Canon specialty. They patented a quad-pixel AF so that may appear in more advanced sensors.

 

[Stereodude]

Imagine if Nvidia tried the Canon strategy with graphics cards. The 1070 couldn't be faster than the 980ti. They'd have to neuter it somehow otherwise people would stop buying the 980Ti! The idea of making the 1070 all it could be and replacing the 980Ti with a new even better model wouldn't cross their minds.

 

[LunarMist]

Imagine if Nvidia tried the Canon strategy with graphics cards. The 1070 couldn't be faster than the 980ti. They'd have to neuter it somehow otherwise people would stop buying the 980Ti! The idea of making the 1070 all it could be and replacing the 980Ti with a new even better model wouldn't cross their minds.

I have no idea about the video cards. I have only the lowly Quattro.

The particular compromises made on features and performance to differentiate models at different price points is always controversial. In the case of some new products it is more difficult to please everyone and not alienate too many users.
It's pretty much as expected that Canon would introduce the new features on a lower-grade body before moving to the better cameras. That will give some time for improvements in technology and feedback.
The 1D series would be the last to change.

 

[snowhiker]

Canon Rumors has posted the official launch of the new Canon EOS R MILC. $2300.

Fortunately for Nikon, Canon gimped the camera enough to not totally destroy the Z6 and Z7.

2k 60 video.
Cropped 4k.
1 SD card slot.

 

[Stereodude]

It's not quite as nerfed as I expected, but they definitely are stingy with the video features.

 

[LunarMist]

Canon Rumors has posted the official launch of the new Canon EOS R MILC. $2300.

Fortunately for Nikon, Canon gimped the camera enough to not totally destroy the Z6 and Z7.

2k 60 video.
Cropped 4k.
1 SD card slot.

Compatibility of Nikkors is more limited, so I doubt people will be using Canons.

 

[snowhiker]

Canon officially announces their new FF MILC the Canon EOS RP. $1300.

Canon Rumors link.
PetaPixel link.

Small. Very light. Low price. Nerfed video specs.

Lots of glass announced as well. Mostly high-end glass.

RF 85mm F1.2 L USM.
RF 85mm F1.2 L USM DS.**
RF 24-70mm F2.8 L IS USM.
RF 15-35mm F2.8 L IS USM.
RF 70-200mm F2.8 L IS USM.
RF 24-240mm F4-6.3 IS USM.

**Defocus Smoothing. Allows, "beautifully smooth defocused bokeh."

And rumors of two additional lenses.

RF 100-400mm f/3.5-5.6L IS USM.
RF 70-300 f/4-5.6 IS (Non-L).

 

[snowhiker]

Nikon announces their Z mount 24-70 f/2.8 S lens. $2300. Shorter and lighter then the F mount 2.8E lens. A bit sharper in the center, (according to theoretical MTF charts). It will be interesting to see if the build quality is better than the Z mount 24-70/4 S lens.

 

[LunarMist]

Canon officially announces their new FF MILC the Canon EOS RP. $1300.

Canon Rumors link.
PetaPixel link.

Small. Very light. Low price. Nerfed video specs.

Lots of glass announced as well. Mostly high-end glass.

RF 85mm F1.2 L USM.
RF 85mm F1.2 L USM DS.**
RF 24-70mm F2.8 L IS USM.
RF 15-35mm F2.8 L IS USM.
RF 70-200mm F2.8 L IS USM.
RF 24-240mm F4-6.3 IS USM.

**Defocus Smoothing. Allows, "beautifully smooth defocused bokeh."

And rumors of two additional lenses.

RF 100-400mm f/3.5-5.6L IS USM.
RF 70-300 f/4-5.6 IS (Non-L).

Yet there are nothing but cheap bodies so far. The real issue is that they already have a 30 MP R for cheap, so how will the 5D IV be replaced?

 

[LunarMist]

Nikon announces their Z mount 24-70 f/2.8 S lens. $2300. Shorter and lighter then the F mount 2.8E lens. A bit sharper in the center, (according to theoretical MTF charts). It will be interesting to see if the build quality is better than the Z mount 24-70/4 S lens.

What they need is a new 24-105/4 or something like it. The 24-120 rather sucks.
Meanwhile they put out a 50/0.95 without focus. It is beyond stupidity for 2019.

 

[snowhiker]

Yet there are nothing but cheap bodies so far. The real issue is that they already have a 30 MP R for cheap, so how will the 5D IV be replaced?

Canon and Nikon have to ship their flagship cameras (DSLR 1DX3 & D6) before they ship their high end MILC. Don't want to eat into those sales.

What they need is a new 24-105/4 or something like it. The 24-120 rather sucks.
Meanwhile they put out a 50/0.95 without focus. It is beyond stupidity for 2019.

To nit-pick it's a 58/0.95 not 50. Nikon does have the Z mount 24-70/4 but it's a bit pricey. They do need a cheaper kit lens such as a DECENT 24-105/3.5-4.5.

 

[Stereodude]

...Nerfed video specs...

It's the Canon way. They don't know how to do anything else. They don't believe in even slightly cannibalizing their own products. Even if one of them is 4 years old and will be discontinued in 3 months.

Cause, I mean really, why would you expect to be able to shoot 1080p24 video with a 2019 full frame MILC?

 

[LunarMist]

I'm so tired of cheap stuff. I wish they would make better bodies without any video or consumer nonsense.
This transition to MILF has created more junk and sucked resources from making other improvements.

 

[LunarMist]

Canon and Nikon have to ship their flagship cameras (DSLR 1DX3 & D6) before they ship their high end MILC. Don't want to eat into those sales.

To nit-pick it's a 58/0.95 not 50. Nikon does have the Z mount 24-70/4 but it's a bit pricey. They do need a cheaper kit lens such as a DECENT 24-105/3.5-4.5.

I don't know why I thought it was a 50. Perhaps it was the comparison with the old Canon 50/1 EF lens.
Given the horrific vignetting in this type of design, the T-stop will be around 1.1-1.2.

 

[snowhiker]

I wonder...when the Z 6 and Z 7 (as well as D5, D850, D500) receive their firmware update to work with CFex cards they will utilize the full speed of there babies. 1700/1480 MB/s read/write speeds. The D5 buffer might get close to being bottomless with those write speeds.

 

[LunarMist]

The performance of the chipset as well as the power supply may be maxed out before that.
As you know there is already a max shutter burst to prevent overheating. If there is overheating I can't remember if it slows down or completely stops.

 

[snowhiker]

I wonder...when the Z 6 and Z 7 (as well as D5, D850, D500) receive their firmware update to work with CFex cards they will utilize the full speed of there babies. 1700/1480 MB/s read/write speeds. The D5 buffer might get close to being bottomless with those write speeds.

ProGrade Digital CFexpress memory cards coming in addition to the Sony cards. Up to 1400 MB/s write speeds.

 

[LunarMist]

Do you have a camera that can use it for testing?

 

[snowhiker]

Do you have a camera that can use it for testing?

No. My D610 has dual SD slots.

 

[LunarMist]

Upgrade!

 

[snowhiker]

ProGrade Digital CFexpress memory cards coming in addition to the Sony cards. Up to 1400 MB/s write speeds.

Sandisk will also make CFex cards.

 

[LunarMist]

Well of course. SanDisk (now WD) was always behind it since CF and CFast were doomed.

 

[LunarMist]

Canon seems to be going nowhere fast now that the lower end of the RF body is released.

 

[snowhiker]

Sony's new big boy glass.

600mm f/4 GM OSS lens. 200-600 f/5.6-6.3 G OSS lens.

$13k and $2k respectively. With Sony's already shipping, $12k, 400mm f/2.8 lens, they now have the major big glass used by Canikon pros and wildlife shooters. And with a new A9 update coming, things could be interesting for the Olympics.

The 200-600mm lens is something Canon hinted about nearly 3.5 years ago but never delivered. Sigma, Tamron and Sony have this zoom range covered and Nikon has the super low priced 200-500mm on sale for $1250. Canon missed the boat.

 

[LunarMist]

Absolute IQ of a $2000 lens remains to be seen, but should be better than the 200-500 Nikkor at 500 mm.
The lack of a 500/4 is rather disappointing.

 

[snowhiker]

Rumor:

Canon RF 16-28 f/2 zoom is coming. This will complement the already released 28-70 f/2 zoom. Will a 70-135 f/2 be the third lens that completes Canon's RF f/2 trinity zoom set?

 

[LunarMist]

I feel like it is back to the 70s with the limited zoom ranges and trends toward fast lenses.

 

[DrunkenBastard]

So I have an a6000 and looking for an external charger. Is the BCQM1 the best option if I want fastest charge times (FW50 batteries) and not too concerned about charger size?

https://www.amazon.com/Sony-BCQM1-Compact-Battery-Charger/dp/B00FX48OO2

I see some third party options like Nitecore which has a very cheap dual battery USB powered charger but reports are it usually taps out below 90% state of charge.

Thanks.

 

[Stereodude]

I feel like it is back to the 70s with the limited zoom ranges and trends toward fast lenses.

Can you point me to the F2.0 zooms from the 70s?

 

[LunarMist]

Can you point me to the F2.0 zooms from the 70s?

I recall using fast zooms on movie cameras in the 70s. I wanted to be a DP at one point in my youth.
Nevertheless, what part of AND in that sentence above is unclear?