More Vista nonsense

[Chewy509]

Microsoft responds to multimedia/networking complaints in Vista.

You all ready for this? It's expected behavior that only impacts LAN operations and not internet connections. Uh-huh. Because that makes it better. The dual Pentium/133 I had in 1996 could play MP3s and handle a 100Mbit network connection at full speed, but ddrueding's X2/6000 can't.

That is endlessly amusing.

Kind of sucks for all the Vista users using their boxes as Media Centres.

Seems strange that no other modern OS (other than some hard real-time OSes) suffer the problems that MS is trying to address. (cracking/popping in audio playback). With modern sound cards that have onboard buffers of a couple of MB, I don't see the need for throttling the rest of the I/O bus (be it PCI or PCIe or HT) to such a point that one operation greatly affects another. All MS has to do is read up wikipedia on what "I/O buffering" is...

Even NT4 (on a P233MMX) in my experience never suffered these types of problems.

Vista is really turning out to be a lemon...

 

[Bozo]

Mr Russinovich has been brain-washed by MS.
http://blogs.technet.com/markrussinovich/archive/2007/08/27/1833290.aspx

This problem didn't happen in XP or 2000.

Vista sucks.

Bozo :joker:

 

[Handruin]

Good find Bozo. I think this quoted comment sums it up:

"mechanisms employed by the Multimedia Class Scheduler Service (MMCSS), a feature new to Windows Vista"

Seems to me Microsoft tried to "fix" something that wasn't broken.

 

[ddrueding]

In the world of 1080p programming, I can see where something like this is needed. But it kicking in during MP3 playback is useless, and it doesn't kick in enough when I'm watching HD video...WTF?

 

[Bozo]

It just keeps getting better and better for XP

http://blogs.zdnet.com/hardware/?p=829

Bozo :joker:

 

[ddrueding]

Only occurs when running Kapersky 6 or 7? Apparently this was easy enough for everyone else to avoid?

 

[Mercutio]

Actually, the article says that it happens under a variety of circumstances, but most easily while Kapersky products are running. They're blaming a kernel memory leak. Some guy in the comments suggests it's a leak in Explorer and not the kernel, but frankly that's just as bad.

 

[ddrueding]

It says that it is a kernel memory leak, and that it could happen without Kapersky, but doesn't mention how. I suspect it would be something more ridiculous than copying 16,400+ files. I just tried copying 50,000+ files and had no issues at all.

Edit: In fact, it just finished copying 87,118 MP3s (240GB) without any memory spike at all.

Edit 2: I'm not saying that this isn't MS' fault, just that it isn't nearly the big deal the article (and /. summary) make it out to be.

 

[Chewy509]

The memory leak is related to 3rd party apps opening streams to the extended attributes of files and then linking to those said stream via OLE.

Since only a very small number of applications even know about the extended attribute streams, it's unlikely to impact the majority of users in day-to-day operations.

 

[Tannin]

Compaq are still selling new machines with Vista pre-loaded and 512MB of RAM!

The one I saw today also had on-board video robbing another 128MB out of the measly 512MB it started with. And then they pre-install Norton Anti-virus. Adds a whole new world of meaning to the word "pain".

Absolute disgrace.

 

[mubs]

Sadist buggers.

 

[Mercutio]

Actually, hell is a Vista Premium laptop with 384MB RAM, a 4200rpm hard disk, Norton Internet Security Suite, WordPerfect and all of its font packages and Webroot Spysweeper installed.

I worked on one last week where it took fully 45 minutes to install all 500MB of "drivers" that came with some HP Photo printer (D7xyz something or other).

 

[ddrueding]

That's actually not that bad for HP drivers...a whole different kind of hell.

 

[Bozo]

Interesting article on the next Windows kernal:

http://www.news.com/beyond-binary/8301-13860_3-9800751-56.html?tag=nefd.lede

http://blogs.zdnet.com/microsoft/?p=842

Bozo :joker:

 

[Fushigi]

My OfficeJet needed no downloaded drivers from HP. Vista recognized it & loaded everything to print, scan, and fax automatically.

Nowadays I find even XP to be too pokey with just 512MB RAM. I bumped my wife's PC to a GB a few weeks back just for the minor speed boost it granted. Now I just have to wait for something to break on hers so I can wholesale upgrade it from an Athlon 2600 to an X2 or C2Q for better Folding numbers.

 

[Bozo]

Activation woes

http://apcmag.com/vista_activation

Bozo :joker:

 

[ddrueding]

Overblown. It took a device driver update and a major hardware change (video card) to cause deactivation. And as anyone whose done it knows, phone activation is painless and takes less than 2 minutes.

It is MS' fault? Yes. Is it a big deal? No.

 

[Mercutio]

Bullshit. You have customers calling and crying that their Windows install doesn't work, or worse, threatening lawsuits because you CLEARLY sold them an illegal copy of Windows, and that's not a big deal?

What color is the sky in your world, ddrueding?

 

[ddrueding]

You have customers upgrading their hardware?

 

[ddrueding]

A step further; if you have customers that do upgrade hardware and/or install factory drivers (not the ones from windows update), they should be more understanding that it isn't your fault.

 

[Mercutio]

I sell PCs to home users, and I have students I have to support.
And I do know of at least one person affected by this issue.

 

[Bozo]

If I read that right, he upgraded the chipset drivers (INF files) and changed video cards. Then he needs to reactivate?????bullshit.

All that is nessesary is to keep track of the motherboard serial number. If that changes, then it is a new PC. If it's a replacement, then make the call. All other hardware should be upgradable without having to kiss MS's a$$.

Bozo :joker:

 

[Tannin]

Overblown. It took a device driver update and a major hardware change (video card) to cause deactivation. And as anyone whose done it knows, phone activation is painless and takes less than 2 minutes.

It is MS' fault? Yes. Is it a big deal? No.

That must be the craziest thing I've ever seen you write, Dave.

(1) A video card update is a major hardware change? Ahem .... Planet Earth please?

(2) Not a big deal? Mate, it's your operating system, isn't it? You paid the money for it, it's none of their freaking business what hardware you run it on. The whole "activation" caper is a disgrace and ought to be illegal. If they have a problem with piracy, then it is their problem. (Well, actually, it shouldn't be illegal; the monopoly itself should be illegal (in fact, actually is illegal but the courts are too gutless to enforce the law), and in a non-monopoly market, product activation on the current model wouldn't last ten minutes. Want proof? Look at what happened to copy-protected floppy discs back in Lotus/Quatro/Excel days.)

(3) Your stopwatch needs adjusting. It takes way longer than two minutes. Arything from 5 to 20 is typical.

 

[Will Rickards]

I was going to post that david has been desensitizied to this activation crap.
But I refrained because I didn't want to argue over it. But all of you have made the same points I was going to make.

My only issue is I'm still on the fence about whether it is within MS's rights to have some activation scheme. I'm leaning towards no. You can't really ship me a product that is crippled until I activate it. This wouldn't work for selling me a computer or a television. Why is it acceptable for an OS?

I think this whole concept of just licensing software rather than buying it is the cause of much difference of opinion. Same with music. Big brother thinks about it one way (we just license the content to you), consumers think about it another (I paid good money and own this now).

 

[Mercutio]

I'm entirely inclined to just use the pre-cracked OEM Dell copies of Vista that are floating around right now, rather than put up with the Activation nonsense. I *really did* have a guy tell me he was going to sue because his copy of Vista Home Premium deactivated. He had a sticker on his PC and a retail copy of the media, but it was clearly my fault that he had that problem.

Dell customers don't have to put up with that shit, why should mine?

 

[ddrueding]

Alright guys, yes MS is evil. Yes, they insist that you jump through hoops of fire every month or so because they think it's funny. Yes, no other market would permit such crap. Yes, their monopoly and their lawyers are what let them get away with it.

As a matter of fact, I'm debating between going to XP or Ubuntu for my main workstation in the next few weeks. It would be Ubuntu all the way but I'm not sure about gaming support (via VM or Wine).

Now. Most users would consider cracking open a computer case and changing stuff a major hardware change. Activation is not a secret. They didn't jump out of the bushes and add it to Vista when you weren't looking. And I have users re-activate over the phone all the time, it just isn't hard.

 

[Chewy509]

As a matter of fact, I'm debating between going to XP or Ubuntu for my main workstation in the next few weeks.

You just need to work out if Ubuntu (or any Linux/BSD based system) has the software you need.

I've been running Solaris Express Developer Edition 09/07 for the last 3 weeks, and it's been a pleasant experience. The only things I've had to install are mplayer with DVD/DTS codecs to watch a couple of DVDs on the system, GNomad to sync with my iRiver Clix MP3 player, UFRaw plug-in for GIMP (to load RAW images in GIMP) and the usual gaming set, FreeCIV, Quake3, etc. Otherwise the system has everything I need out of the box, (including a working Flash and Java implementation).

**SXDE also comes with StarOffice8, and all the Sun IDE tools which is a good feature over many Linux/BSD based systems.

 

[ddrueding]

Well, I'm presently in love with Test Drive Unlimited (beating it for the 4th time), so I need that. Photoshop would be really nice, but I guess I could learn GIMP. I don't use office anymore (google docs all the way!).

I'll start a proper thread for this when the time comes, too much going on at the moment.

Let the Vista bashing resume...

 

[time]

Most users would consider cracking open a computer case and changing stuff a major hardware change.

What's a minor hardware change?

 

[mubs]

Changing case screws to thumbscrews?

 

[ddrueding]

USB stuff? New keyboard? New Screen? Mousepad?

 

[Chewy509]

Let the Vista bashing resume...

Like if you use the built-in CD burning software, the CD's can only be read by other Vista PC's even if you finalise the disk?

 

[Chewy509]

And I have users re-activate over the phone all the time, it just isn't hard.

The latest trend for causing re-activations is driver updates... (as reported on slashdot )

 

[LiamC]

Updating the driver should not cause reactivation. It should be expected.

I'll go Kubuntu before Vista

 

[ddrueding]

Updating the driver should not cause reactivation. It should be expected.

Updating the driver with one provided by MS doesn't cause the problem (as through windows update). Only if you specifically get and install the driver from the manufacturer do you have to re-activate. If you are smart enough to do the first, you are smart enough to handle the second.

Again, yes it is bad behavior and shouldn't need to be done. But it just isn't a big deal.

 

[LiamC]

Again, yes it is bad behavior and shouldn't need to be done. But it just isn't a big deal.

No, it isn't. It is a pain in the arse though. And I can't fathom the reason for it. Guilty until proven innocent. Maybe MS should move its HQ to France.

 

[Chewy509]

But it just isn't a big deal.

Actually it is. This is just showing MS doesn't trust it's customer base, and that MS believes that they know better.

 

[Bozo]

Good read:

http://community.zdnet.co.uk/blog/0,1000000567,10006217o-2000331777b,00.htm

My favorite quote "Ubuntu goes out of its way to get out of your way, even if it doesn't succeed all the time. Vista goes out of its way to be Vista and enforce the Vista way."

Amen

Bozo :joker:

 

[ddrueding]

Sure Vista sucks, and I'll be moving off of it soon, but I thought this was a neat feature:

The way it notifies of daylight savings time in the clock.

Small? Yup. But well thought out.

 

[mubs]

Sure Vista sucks, and I'll be moving off of it soon,

Why? I thought you loved it?