Musings on a new PC

[mubs]

My current PC is getting long in the tooth; I built it new 5+ years ago. I have to wait when I scroll a one-page PDF created by my scanner (doc is not optimized, I guess). I hope to build a new one sometime in March. I’ve had several false starts (and maybe this one will be as well) because of a tight budget.

My philosophy is to build a quality machine and have it last a while. Don’t care for the bleeding edge; a little higher than the sweet spot is more like it.

The goal in starting this thread is more to discuss and solicit views on medium and long-term trends, with little discussion of specific brand/models (though I’ll do some of that, and welcome such comments from you as well).

OS

A key decision! I’m on W2k now. Vista is not appealing to me. It seems to be more eye-candy, DRM excrement which I don’t care for. XP Pro would be my choice, mainly because it would in the next couple of years, be a more up-to-date OS than W2k, and would run everything I want to. There is speculation that MS will be forced to continue support for XP Pro for at least another 5 years, which suits me fine.

Linux is out of the question, so is a *nix variant. Maybe in the future, as they mature and I become more mellow and patient.

Should I consider MacOS (yes, I know it’s a *nix variant ) ? I’ve never used a Mac, but keep reading more and more good things about it. I’m not happy that they chose Intel; would have preferred AMD. Maybe Jobs is going for the whole “platform” instead of processor, like Dell’s relationship with Intel. Is Apple likely to have an AMD variant? Intel’s laying eggs now, and if they cannot execute their upcoming designs and continue to lay eggs, what’s Jobs going to do? Maybe he knows something we don’t?

A Mac could will be expensive (buy instead of build) + the cost of the entire set of sw. Unless Windows will run on MacOS (some rumors claim there’s WINE for MacOS in the works). Or one can double boot (useless unless there is hardware virtualization; see next item).

Processor & timing thereof

AMD X2. I’d really, really like to have a processor with Pacifica, AMD’s hardware virtualization. This (and Intel’s competing technology, Vanderpool) are supposed to let you boot and run multiple OSes concurrently. But AFAIK, it’s only for the Opteron, due early 2006. Unless this comes on X2 real quick, it’s no good to me. There’s an interesting read on the whole thing at itarchitect.com.

Motherboard

I want one with a combination of PCI-E and PCI slots. I don’t care for SLI. I’d like two usable PCI-E slots that each (and both together) can run at least at 4x. The plan is to use one for the video card, and the other for a disk HBA in the future if I’m so inclined – like Gary’s SASsy stuff. (Gotta win the Lotto first). The PCI will come in handy for sound card and the like. Leaning towards Nfroce chipset; VIA afficianados tell me why I should go that route (I’ve been burned by the bad old days of VIA, though admittedly that was loooong ago).

RAM

I want at least 2GB; maybe 3. So I’ll start with 2 x 1GB sticks. I think they’ve licked the problem of running at DDR 400 with 4 sticks now.

Overclocking

I’m not an OC freak. X2’s supposedly reach 2.7 GHz easily, with air cooling. That’s good enough for me. A 4400+ (2.2 GHz, 1MB) at 2.7 GHz is a 23% OC, which should be quite feasible. Or 2.6 GHz, which is 18%. Will save at least $250.

Video Card

My present card is an AGP 1x/2x (slot is the same speed, obviously, precluding me from sticking a faster card in there). No point buying AGP now; the new one’s got to be PCI-E.

I’ve always been an ATI man. The one experience with Nvidia has been really nasty (same problems as JTR in W98, except he finally fixed his problem, and I still haven’t). I’ve read reports that ATI has beta sw that uses the GPU for video encoding etc. that is magnitudes faster than using the CPU. The catch is that the sw only works with the X1nn class video cards. IMHO, this feature is fantastic, and I’m willing to buy an X1nn card even if the sw does turn out to be vaporware.

I haven’t seen any benchmarks anywhere comparing the older and newer ATI cards. But it appears that the X1600XT is just slightly faster than a 9600XT (my estimate of performance based on pixel fillrate) so I’ll be buying at least this. The X1800XL is terribly attractive, but costs 65% more. Power consumption goes from bad for the X1600XT to worse for the X1800XL. Mainstream CPU makers are focusing on power efficiency; I wish GPU makers were doing the same. I have no desire to own/run/maintain my own personal nuclear power plant. But what is one to do? Bloatware, inefficient code and eye candy proliferate. Someday maybe I’ll end up with a character interface like Merc (and i?). Till then I have to put up and shut up.

That’s it for now. Thanks for reading, and thanks for your insights and advice.

 

[mubs]

Sorry:

a) Couldn't get the could in "A Mac could will be expensive" to strikeout. Tried and [strike][/strike]. I know Tannin has done it before. BTW I don't know HTML.

b) while I was trying to make a) work, the post submitted itself and the URL is messed up. It's at itarchitect.com.

 

[CougTek]

Instead of an Athlon X2, buy a s939 Opteron like the 165. It's 1.8GHz, and 1MB of L2 cache per core. It's cheaper than a 4200+ and it has more cache than a 3800+, not to mention that it should overclock even better. I'm not sure if it's still the case, but there was a time when the RAM bus multipliers on Opteron were unlocked.

The Athlon 64 with the new DDR2 memory controller won't be out before April and they'll have a price premium for sure, so they won't be there in time for your March time frame.

Motherboards with the ATI chipset and the ULi 1575 south bridge have excellent IDE and SATA implementations. Better than VIA and nVidia by far. Even if it's an Asus, I would buy an A8R-MVP if I were to build a box now. The A8R-MVP is fanless, so you can make a quiet system with it. With ULi's acquisition by nVidia, it is unlikely that other boards with that chipset combo see the light of the day in the future.

Regarding the RAM, you can use 4 modules, but you'll have to set the command rate at 2T and that's a 3-5% set-back in performances. Not to mention that it will severely limit your overclocking range. Stick with two sticks, no more.

 

[mubs]

Thanks, Coug.

I took a detaild look at the Opt-165, but it'll need extensive overclocking to get near 2.6 GHz (44%). I'm not comfy with that much; I'd be pushing many crucial parts to their limits, and what I'll save on CPU cost I'll end up spending on super-fast RAM. That's why I'm targeting a more moderate overclock.

You're right on DDR2; I wouldn't want to wait for it, and don't want the early teething problems either. DDR is fine.

The Asus A8R-MVP looks good. The main fear is that I'll be banished from SF for even thinking about it! But seriously, I have to find out if the 2 PCI-E x16 slots can be used independently at the rated (or even x4) speeds.

I'm aware of the RAM issues. I'll start with 2GB / 2 sticks, and only add more if I really need it.

Thanks for your help.

35 views, nobody else has anything to say?

 

[Will Rickards]

Well looks like you got everything pretty much figured out.

But being storageforum, whats your plan for the disk system?

 

[Mercutio]

What does an nvidia chipset offer over Via if you aren't interested in overclocking?

RAM: You should probably stick to 2GB. MOST A64 desktop motherboards seem to be limited to ~2.5GB, if I recall correctly. I guess you could find something workstationish - and given your plans that's not a bad idea anyway - but in the land of sub-$200 motherboards, 2GB is about as good as you'll do.

Video: X1600 looks about right.

 

[mubs]

Thanks Will & Merc.

WRT storage, there are two ways to go.

If I win the Lotto, it'll be SAS & Savvio, with Gary being the prime consultant.

If not, it'll be SATA (I'll ditch my current PATA drives), probably 2 x 250GB. Samsung or Hitachi, TBD closer to buying time.

I'll keep my current opticals: a Lite-on DVD-ROM/CDRW combo and an NEC DVD-+RW.

Heatsink-wise, the Thermalright XP-120 and XP-90 seem real dandy (not too heavy like the Zalmans, but effective). SPCR thinks highly of them.

A 20" LCD is not in the pic right now; if I have money at the time, I'll buy one.

Any comments on MacOS, folks? Or XP?

 

[mubs]

Sorry Merc, didn't answer your question WRT to NVidia/Via.

The honest answer is I don't know. The perception I have is that NVidia is "higher-end", with better performance and flexibility for overclocking. Since I plan to do only a moderate amount of overclocking, I don't know if Via will fit the bill or not. If NVidia's chipset drivers are as bad as their video drivers, I'll go with Via!

Since both Tannin and Merc agree on one thing, that Via is good, maybe I should seriously look at them.

 

[Mercutio]

I tihnk it would be a mistake to buy a Mac right now, as there doesn't seem to be a future in the PPC versions and the x86 models are going to be introduced on the low end first. I guess they don't want to gut the sales on their G5s.

Asus will apparently be making x86 ibooks, if anyone cares. Quanta, which makes Inspirons, will be making Powerbooks.

mubs, I'd give a hard look at SuSE or Ubuntu before I wrote off Linux.
Win2k is a little too creaky these days for my taste - still a good system, but I'd rather have something that's going to get updates from time to time. I *still* advocate Server 2003 as a desktop OS if you can beg, borrow or steal a copy.

 

[CougTek]

VIA works, but it's behind in both features and performances. I don't think you can run your memory with very agressive timings on VIA boards. If I was to build 20 general purpose boxes on which I wouldn't want to make maintenance, maybe I would consider VIA. But for my own system, nope. I think that's also why Merc and Tony like VIA. for something that "just works", VIA boards are good. For tweaking (something both M&T don't have time to do), VIA is, well, behind the curve.

I no longer see as many computer systems as Mercutio or Tony, but I've played with both nVidia and VIA (and Intel and SiS, but not ATI) and the problems I've had, when I had some, were not related to chipset drivers (except perhaps with Intel and their damned ICH).

Unless you push your luck by installing, re-installing and upgrading your drivers without previously having uninstalled cleanly your previous driver version, you shouldn't have problem either with nVidia, ATI or VIA. I know that whatever I choose, I'll find a way to make it work. That's why I choose base on performance and features, not fear of problems.

I've even been able to make ECS boards work (ran a file server on a K7S5A for a year...without backups!).

 

[CougTek]

I liked Ubuntu too, but Kubuntu better (Ubuntu with KDE instead of Gnome). What I hate with Linux is drivers. Or lack of. Forget 3D on that OS. Whatever your GPU is, it will be wasted.

Win Server 2003 also gets my vote. I'm on Win2K right now, but when I'll change, that's the OS I'll switch to.

 

[Mercutio]

I don't build THAT many computers. Maybe 50 a year for myself. Maybe another 50 or 60 through my trainer job (well, I oversee building them in classes and the like).
I've found most tweaking to be rather pointless, as my personal upgrade cycle is done at a breakneck pace. I'm simply not going to notice the .7% performance gain I get from screwing around with memory timings. Most die-hard tweakers aren't, either.

Via "just works". Performance has always lagged on Via, but not to the point where it makes a subjective difference. the features have always been there and there's nothing wrong with the price. Via boards tend to have fewer "tweaker" settings without descending into OEM featurelessness, and to me that's a plus. It means no one else is going to screw around with those settings, either.

My opinion of nvidia chipsets boils down to this:
1. You're paying for a name. Gigabyte boards with nvidia chipsets cost more, for example.
2. The nforce and nforce2 boards that I AM familiar with (admittedly, all Asus) had weird issues I couldn't attribute to anything else in the computer; My Via boards never have weird issues. I am fully aware how sweeping that generalization is, but it holds up well for me.
3. You're paying for a lot of crap you aren't going to use. nforce4 comes with some kind of onboard "firewall"? Whoop-de-fuck. RAID migration between 1 and 0? Ooooh. SLI? Show me a game where you actually need it.

 

[mubs]

Thanks Coug and Merc, this is very valuable advice and exactly the kind of analysis I was hoping for.

Main concern with Linux is app compatibility. I did play a little with SuSe 9, and felt it was not something I could switch to.

I presume, Merc, that you haven't had any app incompatibilities with W2k3 -- apps refusing to install on a "server" OS. I most probably cannot beg, borrow or steal a copy of W2k3. Lowest price seems to be $640, and $310 for the academic version (which I wouldn't qualify for anyway). XP Pro SP2 OEM is $134, in comparison. Is there a way to get W2k3 for less? I know MSDN is ~ $300 a year, but AFAIK one is supposed to stop using the SW when the MSDN subscription is discontinued.

I really don't care for NVidia's bells & whistles (firewall, raid, etc.), but I think Coug's point of tweaking is important as well. My present system is zero maintenance (Tyan dual P3 board; it just keeps running) and that's what I want from my new system as well.

I think I'll start narrowing down my motherboard choices based on features first.

Thanks folks.

 

[Mercutio]

mubs, I've had no, none, zero problems with application compatibility on Server 2003. There ARE professional applications for video editing and the like that expect you to buy a different licensed version to operate on "server", but you probably aren't loading that software at home.
My games are fine. DOS stuff works as well as it did on 2000.

Try going to a Microsoft technical conference. It's probably a write-off at the very least, and they tend to give out things like Server Licenses and copies of Visual Studio free of charge.

 

[Sol]

I'd seconds CougTeks suggestion of looking at the Opterons I just bought my self an Opteron 170 and I can clock it up to 2.5Ghz (from 2.0 stock) with no voltage increase, eventually the fact that I still have stock cooling on does let me down but a good air cooling solution would almost cirtainly fix that and the 500Mhz RAM I used only cost arround $40 more than 400Mhz stuff. That's very close to your target speed without overclocking the RAM or increasing voltages so Isuspect that 2.6Ghz should be easily achievable with better cooling.

The Opterons multipliers can be reduced but not increased. I believe the FX chips are fully unlocked, but they also cost an arm and a leg.

As far as I've seen more than one fast PCI-E slot means one of three things for your motherboard choice, SLI, X-Fire or a server board... I could be wrong with that but I've not seen a VIA board that offers any of these, although there is almost cirtainly a couple of server boards using VIA chipsets. Given that your going with ATI for the video card it could be worth looking at the performance of some of the X-Fire chipsets...

 

[mubs]

Thanks, Merc. I'll try to wangle a free copy.

Thanks for the input, Sol. Can you please tell me what RAM you're using?

Like Maxburn in the other thread, I've spent a lot of time reading motherboard manuals.

Most of the DFI LanPartys are 16x, 2x, 1x, 1x in non-SLI mode. 2x ain't so bad, and the additional 1x slots could be handy in the future.

A couple of non-SLI MSI boards have 16x, 4x, and 1x, which also sounds good.

Finally the Asus (gasp!) A8R-MVP, suggested by Coug and based on the ATI Xpress 200 XFire, appears to work in 8x, 8x, 1x in non-Crossfire mode. Not bad.

I'll probably end up with one of these options.

If I go with the Opteron, it'll have to be the 170. The 175 costs more than the 4400 for the same clock speed. I don't want to risk OCing the 165 that much. The real question is if all samples of the 170 OC so easily.

 

[CougTek]

I don't build THAT many computers. Maybe 50 a year for myself.

50 a year...for yourself? You're insane. Totally, unquestionably insane. Do you rent a warehouse to store them?

That's one unit per week. It must be a weird feeling to wake up Monday morning and then being suddenly struck with the following thought : "Damn!, My computer is SEVEN days old! It served me well, but now it's definitely obsolete. Nothing to do with this antiquity other than send it to a museum. Time to replace the whole thing."

 

[Sol]

I'm using a pair of 1GB G.Skill PC4000 value serries DIMMs.
From what I've read my Opteron is not an exceptional example, most of them will overclock at least as well. I suspect that due to being clasified as server/workstation chips they are more conservativly labeled than the consumer grade chips.

And CougTek I think your assesement of Mercutios upgrade habit is a little unfair.
Considering that I would expect him to have at least 2 to 4 computers (probably more) which he would have in use at any one time it's quite possible that he might go anywhere from 15 days to more than a month without completely replacing all of them!

 

[Mercutio]

I don't build THAT many computers. Maybe 50 a year for myself.

50 a year...for yourself? You're insane. Totally, unquestionably insane. Do you rent a warehouse to store them?

How about "for my personal business" then? I don't count the machines I build for myself in that number at all. Those machines are more like computers that are continuously upgraded. Some of the Windows installations are a couple years old at this point, and at least one of the Linux installs started life as a RedHat 3 "Valentine's Day" release from WAAAAY back in 1996.

 

[Santilli]

Well, between Novell, and the anti-virus stuff on my box at work, my 1.4 ghz athlon is running a bit long in the tooth. The saving grace has been the 36 gig 15.3 I boot off, but, I just don't have enough ram, 512 MB, for many of the tasks I ask it to do.

This thread got me wondering if Tyan, or Supermicro, has a sort of budget class, current chipset board that you could use either duals, or a dual core?

What about the new Opteron Supermicro boards? Anyone used them?

What I have noticed, between my SO's 3000+, and my workstation, is, that even though ram is equal, 2 gigs, same OS, and competitive video cards,
the Supermicro motherboard, and duals, plus scsi raid 0, really seem FAR faster, in perception, if not numbers. The load numbers on the 3000+ are similar to the duals, but lower, but, doing functions like burning, ripping, etc. seem to be nearly half the speed with the Athlon 3000+.

Also, the onboard stuff just seems way faster, and better.

Now if they all didn't run 500 dollars...

Tyan looked ok as well, just at the time I bought the duals, the motherboards had problems, new release...

gs

 

[Tannin]

Merc, you're insane. Totally, unquestionably insane.

I agree entirely. But for different reasons, of course. Are you a bit slow, Coug? I worked that out years ago.

That's one unit per week. It must be a weird feeling to wake up Monday morning and then being suddenly struck with the following thought : "Damn!, My computer is SEVEN days old! It served me well, but now it's definitely obsolete. Nothing to do with this antiquity other than send it to a museum. Time to replace the whole thing."

I think Merc does very well to get his systems to work reliably, considering the dreadful video cards he inflicts on them. Still, I suppose he does get lots of practice. Most of my systems are over 18 months old (nearly all Athlon XP 2500s) but the only one that bugs me with its performance is the laptop (a Pentium M 1600) which, of course, is the only one I can't bang an Athlon 64 in any time I feel like it. It's the only one that ever has video problems too, but then it's an ATI, so who's surprised. Still, I did order a 1GB bit of RAM for it today, that should help.

 

[Tannin]

OK, jokes aside. Merc, if you ever need to stray away from your beloved VIA chipsets for Socket 754 and Socket 939, the Nforce 3 and 4 boards I've used work just fine, and the drivers are trouble-free.

After considerable experience with the unlovely Nforce I and Nforce II chipsets, I came to the same conclusion as you about them: they had weirdnesses and you can never really trust the damn things. Use only if you can't get anything else. (Well, OK, I'd use one before I used an ECS board of any description. I should have said "use only if you can't get anything else even worse". But I'd never use an Nforce 1/II if I could use a VIA-based board.)

When Socket 754 first came on the scene, we had little choice. We couldn't get any VIA-based boards and we had to use Nvidia. But after the first 6 or 8 we started to feel that there were no nasty surprises to be found (of course, they were all Gigabyte boards, which helps) and since then we have gone on to sell heaps of them - mostly Nforce 3, only a small number of the Nforce 4 - with perfect satisfaction. They seem quite fussy about power supplies, but then what isn't these days? Since then, we have been able to get Gigabyte VIA boards as well. There is really very little difference. In fact, I suppose I prefer the Nforce 3 boards, all else being equal, but there is bugger all in it and either one is fine. We sell about 50/50.

So, by all means carry on with what is working for you: as you know, the VIA boards are just fine. But if you get stuck one day, don't be afraid to use a K8NF or something similar. They work fine too. (Are they 0.007% faster? Who cares?)

 

[mubs]

In DD's "HTPC Build...recomendations?" thread, CityK provided a link to Wonderboy's CES 2006 report. Maybe I should wait a while; this paragraph woke me up from my slumber:

The most significant new item at DFI could not be photographed, since it is still under NDA. We can, however, tell you that DFI will be producing a top-end ATI RD580 Socket 939 motherboard for dual x16 Crossfire. This time around, DFI is using the excellent ULi M1575 south bridge with competitive USB performance and SATA2 3Gb/sec with full support for NCQ. DFI expects to ship the new RD580 at the time of the ATI launch in mid to late February.

Elsewhere on the site, Wonderboy says the RD480 is even better than sliced-bread.

Not that I care for SLI or XFire; my hope is that the board will have more usable mid-speed PCI-E slots (x8, x4). That way miserly old me could use the board for 5 years like I am my present board.

What say the gentlemen heah? I expect at least a nod of approval from Coug.

 

[Mercutio]

mubs, I wonder if you wouldn't be better off buying a server class Intel motherboard with some PCI-X options, if you really want that kind of staggering I/O.
I don't think you're going to find a desktop solution that will really make you happy.

 

[Pradeep]

What about the new Opteron Supermicro boards? Anyone used them?

We are using three of them at work now (H8DCE) or something like that. Rock solid with dual Opteron 252s, and 4 TB of storage. Works lubbly with the Supermicro cases (except you can't use the plastic shrouds they include which only work with the Intel windtunnel HSFs).

 

[mubs]

mubs, I wonder if you wouldn't be better off buying a server class Intel motherboard with some PCI-X options, if you really want that kind of staggering I/O.
I don't think you're going to find a desktop solution that will really make you happy.

Sorry, Merc. It's just me insecurities showin up. Linus (Van Pelt) wants 'is blanket.

You're absolutely right, I don't need that kind of staggering I/O.

 

[mubs]

Most of the parts for my new system are here. I'm aiming for a set of conflicting objectives: I'd like my system to be cool, quiet and fast . Cooling is a priority because I may be moving to warmer climes come summer. Reliability is critical; it's difficult to get spares and do RMAs from an outpost on Mars.

I'd like advice on a couple of things:

A) Processor: Coug and Sol suggest an Opteron. As already discussed, I don't want to overclock heavily. So it's one of the following:

X2 4400+ 2.2 GHz $460
Opteron 170 2.0 GHz $400
Opteron 175 2.2 GHz $500

Things to keep in mind:
1) Generally speaking, voltage required and heat climb steeply with higher overclocks, though Sol's post is reassuring;
2) Opterons supposedly run warmer than X2s.


B) Disk drives. I'll be buying a couple of 250 GB SATA drives. Since Sata-II is here, I might as well buy those. I've shortlisted Hibachi (T7K250) and Samsung (SP2504C); price differences are negligible. I've read here and there that the Hibachi's are mighty fast. I know how ya'll here feel about Samsung. I'd like to have my cake and eat it too - fast + reliable. Tell me which ones to get.

C) Where to buy the drives: For the last 5 years, all drives I've bought have been retail; it's my belief (and experience has borne this out) that the retails are so much better packaged that they can withstand abusive shipping and handling. I'm afraid to buy OEMs for this reason. I know the Samsungs are only available OEM. To my surprise, I couldn't find any retail Hibachi T7K250 drives either. So where should I buy them? I know Newegg is bad in this aspect, so I'll look elsewhere. eWiz? Directron? ZZF? AllStarShop (driving distance)?

Thanks a mill.

 

[Handruin]

A few months back I bought a pair of the hitachi T7K250's (@250GB) from newegg (oem?) and much like you I can no longer find them at their site...

I find them to run cool and quiet with decent performance. I have no complaints or problems yet. I'm only using them under SATA I with no NcQ because that's the only SATA controller I have.

 

[Mercutio]

There's nothing wrong with the Samsung 250GB drives, but if you're thinking of buying hard disks from Newegg, be advised that sometimes their packing for drives isn't the best in the word. It's better when you buy five or ten drives at a time, because then tend to pack them better (usually in premade boxes that have cushioned slots to put the drives in).

Anyway, here's a link to the good 8MB, 250GB Hitachi drives at Newegg.

 

[Handruin]

Weird, I just looked the other day and couldn't find them in SATA, they had PATA . Did you have to seach for it, or was it listed under the normal hitachi section?

The times I've bought drives from newegg, they came packaged well. They put the drives in those plastic shells and then wrapped several layers of bubble wrap around them and taped it. It came in looking like a football.

 

[Fushigi]

mubs, if you have a Microcenter near you (locations), they stock the Samsung OEM drives. They run about the same as Newegg, give or take a few $.

 

[Mercutio]

Weird, I just looked the other day and couldn't find them in SATA, they had PATA . Did you have to seach for it, or was it listed under the normal hitachi section?

Newegg's search has behaved oddly since last major site redesign. Right now, you're almost always better off searching for manufacturer than a product ID or specific set of features.

It came in looking like a football.

Yup, that's what I'm objecting to. Their standard of packaging doesn't do a whole lot to protect the front and rear surface of the drive, nor prevent back-and-forth shifting.
Also, Newegg uses "found" packaging a LOT. I've gotten things from Newegg in Seagate-approved RMA shipping packages, and, my personal favorite, an Amazon.com box.

 

[Buck]

I purchased some SP2504C for my file server. They seem to work fine.

 

[mubs]

Thanks Handy, Merc & Fushigi.

Since there are no strong opinions on which one to get (other than Handy's endorsement of Hibachi), I take it I could get either one. I would opt for the Hibachi's, then.

The mixed messages about Newegg's disk drive packaging make me uncomfy. Once upon a time Buy.com was just a front-end that used Ingram's backend. The OEM drives I bought in 2000 were superbly packaged; thick soft foam top, bottom and side, cut to correct dimensions, tighly packed in a carton which itself was packed in a bigger carton with enough foam peanuts to keep the insides from moving. Shipped by Ingram, without a doubt.

Fushigi, I have a MC within driving distance. If I was going to get Sammys, I'd probably get them there. What has been your experience with MC's handling of drives? I know it's one of your favorite stores!

 

[Mercutio]

Microcenter is like Disneyworld, but the employees can have facial hair!

 

[Fushigi]

Never any problems so far. They mostly sell retail-boxed items. The OEM drives look like they probably arrive in trays. They're either individually sealed in anti-static bags or are in some form of a rigid case. IIRC the HDs are in a rigid case while the opticals are merely bagged.

I like MC because they're close. I drive by it on my way to work. The folks are generally helpful. Certainly more knowledgable than the average Best Buy PFY. They advertise and even mail their circular out once or twice a month. Which puts them ahead of Fry's, whose ads I don't get as they don't advertise in the Chicago Tribune. They're also better because their web prices = the store prices. I tend to like the prices, selection, & service better than the likes of CompUSA; you can actually buy an AthlonX2 there if you wanted.

Their prices generally aren't the cheapest, but when instant gratification counts, they're pretty reliable. And they stock Samsung HDs.

The other local store I wind up buying from is the TigerDirect.com outlet, which is about a mile off my daily commute. Crappy displays & poorly stocked shelves, but if you find what you want online, the 'store' is really the front of the warehouse; everything's available.

 

[mubs]

Thanks, Fushigi.

 

[time]

The Samsung P120 (SP2504C) is an awfully nice drive. Very low vibration, very low noise, low power dissipation, very high data density; only the seek time is less than stellar, and even then only when compared to a Hitachi 7k250 (in the 7200rpm world).

I like the 7k250, but I think you'll like the P120 more for your needs.

 

[mubs]

Thanks, Buck (I somehow missed seeing your post) and Time.

 

[Mercutio]

Alright, since I now have another "spare" socket 939 CPU and I need something to build images with...

What're you people using for nforce4 boards?
GA-K8N Pro?