:-o
Opera 10.5: a PR disaster in progress
- Thread starter Tannin
- Start date
:-o
Mercutio
Fatwah on Western Digital
If you'd care to go back and look, I've ragged on Opera's UI for as long as there's been a Storageforum.
time
Storage? I am Storage!
Yeah, despite the fact that the UI has changed completely over the years ...
Mercutio
Fatwah on Western Digital
Opera has consistently refused to follow UI conventions, both in screen elements and keyboard shortcuts. It's never been right.
Howell
Storage? I am Storage!
That.
time
Storage? I am Storage!
Try to look at it from their perspective. With respect, you could have made your point succinctly in about one paragraph.
Opera Forum - Posting Rules said:
You clearly breached all of these rules.
Opera Forum - Rules of Conduct said:
And they probably felt you breached these, particularly after you ignored virtually all the posting rules!
time
Storage? I am Storage!
1. Use middle mouse button
2. Right-click and select Close
3. As the context menu helpfully tells you, use Ctrl-W
4. Use Ctrl-F4
5. Use a mouse gesture (standard Opera feature)
6. Use a voice command (standard Opera feature)
7. Use the File menu
8. Show the window list panel and right-click on the one you want to close
9. Double-click on the tab Config Link
10. Add a custom Close button on the right-hand side of the address bar. Install link
The last one is probably what you want.
Opera Custom Buttons
One of the existing Opera forum threads about the missing button(s)
So, Opera can give you both as Mubs prefers, or you can simply disable the on-tab buttons as Tannin prefers, or you can turn everything off and just use the middle-mouse button as Ddrueding prefers, or you can use a keyboard shortcut like Timwhit prefers. Without plugins.
Sol, new tab position is easily configurable in Opera, and there's also some extra features such as 'Follower' tabs.
time
Storage? I am Storage!
So, is Opera 10.5 fast? Sh*t yeah!
Sorry Mercutio, Firefox isn't in the hunt. My second daughter, a long-time FF user, has abandoned it in favour of Chrome.
Compared to Chrome, I notice that Opera is faster at rendering images and stepping back and forwards. This is more obvious on older hardware.
It's a huge improvement in speed, screen real estate, and javascript compatibility. I had a couple of gripes with 10.50, but 10.51 has fixed those and seems more consistently faster. However, there's still a problem if you print the first page only without previewing it.
Sorry Mercutio, Firefox isn't in the hunt. My second daughter, a long-time FF user, has abandoned it in favour of Chrome.
Compared to Chrome, I notice that Opera is faster at rendering images and stepping back and forwards. This is more obvious on older hardware.
It's a huge improvement in speed, screen real estate, and javascript compatibility. I had a couple of gripes with 10.50, but 10.51 has fixed those and seems more consistently faster. However, there's still a problem if you print the first page only without previewing it.
Mercutio
Fatwah on Western Digital
Does Opera have subscription-based ad blocking? That's a minimal criteria for me to take a browser seriously at this point.
Chrome recently grew up and joined that club, though it's still missing most of the other features Firefox's addon system provides. Chrome is a good choice for machines that have slow CPUs, but it's very hard on RAM; once a user gets more than maybe three tabs open, Firefox is the better choice again.
I know Tannin will come in and tell me how great it is to not have to download addons, but that's a process that takes me under a minute for my short list of favorites (I also went ahead and added those addons to the Default User account of my prepared Windows install images, so every system I build will auto-update those addons to their most current version the first time they start Firefox).
I'll grant that anything is better than IE, though I've read that IE8 is supposed to be a more secure platform than any other browser available on Windows. Opera seems to go out of its way to be idiosyncratic both in user interface elements and its limited feature selection. I've never been impressed with its stability, either (Opera has great crash recovery. Opera needs great crash recovery; it's a software version of Western Digital's RMA process). Basically the biggest point in Opera's favor is that it does more than Safari or Konq do.
I'm not sure how important browser speed actually is, either. Every modern browser can win at least some portion of the normal collection of browser benchmarks, to the point that the title "Fastest browser" might as well be claimed by whichever browser has had a major release most recently.
Chrome recently grew up and joined that club, though it's still missing most of the other features Firefox's addon system provides. Chrome is a good choice for machines that have slow CPUs, but it's very hard on RAM; once a user gets more than maybe three tabs open, Firefox is the better choice again.
I know Tannin will come in and tell me how great it is to not have to download addons, but that's a process that takes me under a minute for my short list of favorites (I also went ahead and added those addons to the Default User account of my prepared Windows install images, so every system I build will auto-update those addons to their most current version the first time they start Firefox).
I'll grant that anything is better than IE, though I've read that IE8 is supposed to be a more secure platform than any other browser available on Windows. Opera seems to go out of its way to be idiosyncratic both in user interface elements and its limited feature selection. I've never been impressed with its stability, either (Opera has great crash recovery. Opera needs great crash recovery; it's a software version of Western Digital's RMA process). Basically the biggest point in Opera's favor is that it does more than Safari or Konq do.
I'm not sure how important browser speed actually is, either. Every modern browser can win at least some portion of the normal collection of browser benchmarks, to the point that the title "Fastest browser" might as well be claimed by whichever browser has had a major release most recently.
mubs
Storage? I am Storage!
I think not; I've used TabMixPlus for eons, so I don't remember. This is a really useful add-on; I wouldn't have liked Firefox as much if this wasn't available.
If you want my TMP settings, I'll post it.
Pradeep
Storage? I am Storage!
Opera 5 for android has very sloppy touch response, back to default browser
time
Storage? I am Storage!
Same problem with the Symbian version, Pradeep.
You can only hope that the improvements in the PC version flow through to where it's really needed: Smart Phones.
You can only hope that the improvements in the PC version flow through to where it's really needed: Smart Phones.
time
Storage? I am Storage!
I'm not sure I follow. In Opera, you right-click and select Block Content, then just click on the page elements you want to block, either universally or just in that context. You can also maintain a master list that's just a (wildcard) list of servers. It's stored in urlfilter.ini, some people create default lists that you can download.
In other words, you teach it by clicking on the offending feed, or you can load a predefined list.
There's no doubt whatsoever that Opera provides far, far more features in a default installation than any other browser. But clearly there are far, far more addons for Firefox.
That certainly used to be the case - I stopped using certain versions altogether - but I haven't noticed anything significant for years.
The real problem with Opera has been website incompatibility. The trend to actually follow web standards, the diminishing power of IE 6, and rewrites of the various Opera engines has reduced that to the point that I think it's no longer an issue - but we'll have to wait and see.
I agree. Apart from IE, the main ones are all pretty good. Faster browsers mean you can do more processing on the client and less on the server, which is a better fit with the ongoing redistribution of computing power.
Also probably helps Google in its quest for world domination.
ddrueding
Fixture
May be you haven't used AdBlock Plus, so you are unaware of its superiority? I add it, choose a filter set to subscribe to on next reboot, and I never see an ad again. No teaching, no lists to download, it just works.
There are only two things I want. Ad blocking and the ability to sync bookmarks between computers automatically (XMarks).
What you need is a button you can press that will re-render the page you are on using the IE engine instead. Like Coral IETab does.
Very very true. To make the experience even worse, we have to use McAfee AV and it is horribly slow with anything Java related.
Mercutio
Fatwah on Western Digital
It's deeper than that. Adblock Plus is subscription based, meaning that every time the maintainer updates the block list, ABP updates, too. So as more ad servers are brought online, ABP kills those ads.
Opera can import a block list, but doesn't check for updates. As I recall, the process of using someone's block list is rather cumbersome as well. You have to manually edit the urlfilter.ini file, which lives in some obscure location within your user profile.
Anyway, without subscription, I suspect the block list becomes substantially less useful over the course of two or three months.
Mercutio
Fatwah on Western Digital
Opera has a lot of things I'd consider half-finished ideas. In a couple cases, I can see the use (the zoom feature, for example), but a lot of the other things, I either don't see the appeal (gestures, the built-in web server) or don't think the tool is useful enough (Opera's content blocking).
time
Storage? I am Storage!
You don't have to edit the filter file, just click on the file link and save it whenever you want the most recent list. I don't think anyone has automated it, and frankly, most people wouldn't want such a feature anyway.
I found a post on the Adblock Plus site whining about websites that have the temerity to point out how ad blockers damage them. Ironically, that enabled me to link to the original post that they took offense to:
Why Ad Blocking is devastating to the sites you love
There's a big push on right now (particularly from Rupert Murdoch's empire) to erect paywalls. Most people hate paywalls, but that's what you're forcing on everyone by blocking the main source of website revenue: advertising.
There's a big difference between blocking some annoying ad servers and blocking all ad servers.
I found a post on the Adblock Plus site whining about websites that have the temerity to point out how ad blockers damage them. Ironically, that enabled me to link to the original post that they took offense to:
Why Ad Blocking is devastating to the sites you love
There's a big push on right now (particularly from Rupert Murdoch's empire) to erect paywalls. Most people hate paywalls, but that's what you're forcing on everyone by blocking the main source of website revenue: advertising.
There's a big difference between blocking some annoying ad servers and blocking all ad servers.
Mercutio
Fatwah on Western Digital
That's fine, until you want to have the content of more than one list. I use four subscriptions (two for mainstream ads and two more for adult content). and all of them are updated regularly.
People DO want ad blocking. They want it from the moment they become aware of it. I've seen this first hand in my classroom.
Don't care. Don't care. Don't care. If I do care about the well-being of a particular web site, I support it directly. I subscribe to Fark and Slashdot and have donated to other sites in the past. If I give a site $5 one time, that probably pays for several years of my page views.
My right to not see ads on the internet service I pay for supersedes their decision to try to get me to look at content I don't want to see. Again, I'd rather offer my direct support if I care at all.
Ads don't pay the bills on large content driven sites regardless. Sites that can be supported by ads work because there's only a tiny number of people on staff. The Wall Street Journal or the Sun need more money by an order of magnitude or two, and being paid fractions of a cent for an ad impression isn't going to get them there.
The truth is, those sites are going to find that their page views will drop to next to nothing once they go behind a pay wall. They may or may not care, but the majority of web users will just flow back to free sources of information, same as they did before The Sun and the Wall Street Journal posted content online in the first place.
Not to me. Ads are by definition things I don't want to look at, and I have no plans to look at them. Ever.
Stereodude
Not really a
So I should start watching commercials when I watch TV now? You can apply the same logic to TV and radio ads. I don't watch TV ads (skip them courtesy of a DVR or edit them out entirely on my PC, and I don't listen to the radio because of the advertising). If their business model is broken it's up to them to fix it, instead of trying to guilt me into viewing their ads.
Mercutio
Fatwah on Western Digital
The best radio broadcasting in the USA is commercial free National Public Radio. You're probably close enough to the border to get a CBC station, too.
Even Newt Gingrich, once a champion of de-funding PBS and NPR, has come around to the value of their programming.
Stereodude
Not really a
No thanks, but I have enough liberal media in my life, so I'll pass on NLPR.
Good for him. That only makes him wrong, like he has been on a lot of issues lately.
ddrueding
Fixture
A frog will happily boil to death if you turn the heat up over time. I wonder what you have to listen to and for how long to think of NPR/BBC as liberal.
Stereodude
Not really a
Anything that's not blatantly pushing a liberal agenda.
ddrueding
Fixture
It seems reality does indeed have a liberal bias...
Mercutio
Fatwah on Western Digital
Something like 60% of guests and commentators on NPR programs are explicitly right of center. Lots of Cato Institute and American Enterprise Institute talking heads wind up on NPR. If you look at PBS, Newshour had a rightward bias for years.
Both NPR and PBS are frequently cited for maintaining an actual balance in their journalism, generally managing to remain informative without introducing a crackpot fringe on EITHER side.
Of course, I also think it's rather foolish to only accept media with such an obvious slant as News Corp's offerings, but to each his own.
Both NPR and PBS are frequently cited for maintaining an actual balance in their journalism, generally managing to remain informative without introducing a crackpot fringe on EITHER side.
Of course, I also think it's rather foolish to only accept media with such an obvious slant as News Corp's offerings, but to each his own.
Stereodude
Not really a
You and Merc are just so used to the liberal clap trap from NBC, ABC, CBS, CNN, MSNBC, etc that you think FOX News is heavily biased to the right.
Funny you chose to talk about the frog in hot water...
ddrueding
Fixture
So you believe that 90% of the news agencies are the problem and that you are normal? Wow.
Stereodude
Not really a
Yes, I believe that the vast majority of the media is liberal and presents the news with a liberal agenda. I am not remotely alone in my feelings. Their ratings / circulation is plummeting for a reason.
I didn't say anything about normal or abnormal. If I wanted to be a socialist I'd move to Europe. If I wanted state controlled media I'd move to Venezuela.
Chewy509
Wotty wot wot.
I agree 100%. I've been installing NoScript and AdBlock add-ons for Firefox, almost by default for the last few years. Not one person has asked me to remove either plug-in, only how to set NoScript to allow their favourite sites.
It's amazing how much faster browsing the WWW is, when you don't have to wait for content hosted on way-overloaded ad servers...
sechs
Storage? I am Storage!
Might I suggest using the aluminum foil to cover leftovers rather than your head?
Nobody here is trying to sap and then purify your bodily fluids.
fb
Storage is cool
I agree, aluminium foil helmets might even be counter productive...
http://people.csail.mit.edu/rahimi/helmet/