question PC may have died-need some feedback on MB/CPU/RAM

[jtr1962]

That sums it up, but I think he enjoys it as the hobby. 20 years ago I would have done the same, but I'm too lazy now and prefer to discard rather than repair.

I've been designing and repairing electronics for over 25 years. To me my PC was just another broken piece of electronic equipment which could potentially be repaired. I hate discarding things which still have some useful life in them. That made attempting repair second nature. Now if this were something like a 386, or even a Pentium II, I probably wouldn't have bothered. At some point things just aren't worth repairing.

Interestingly, even though there were obviously issues with the motherboard, I think the power supply wasn't helping things any. My power supply is functionally fine but I remember occasional shutdown issues with this machine from day one, generally during CPU-intensive tasks. The reason is the A7N8X was one of the last motherboards to down convert the CPU power supply from the 5V rail instead of the 12V rail. If you figure the CPU draws 65 watts going full tilt, and conversion efficiency is 80%, you're hitting the 5V rail for over 16 amps just for the CPU. My power supply is only designed to put out 20. Now add in bad motherbard caps which probably caused efficiency to tank, and it's easy to see why everything went to hell.

 

[jtr1962]

I'm bumping this thread because the PC has been having the same problem again. It started about 6 months ago and today it finally got to the point where the system is unusable. I suspect it's the power supply this time because all the caps were replaced last year. The power supply is a Seasonic 330 watt from around 2005. It was marginal with this motherboard to start with and has only gotten worse. Bottom line-I'm in the market for a power supply. I want to future proof things because I plan to finally upgrade to a better motherboard/CPU as soon as the next generation of AMD APUs is out. In the meantime though I'm hoping a new power supply will let my A7N8X limp along for a while. Any suggestions? I want something quiet like my old Seasonic and with active PFC. I would think it would be prudent also to get something with a higher wattage.

 

[CougTek]

In the meantime though I'm hoping a new power supply will let my A7N8X limp along for a while. Any suggestions?

Yeah, we send you parts to build a new computer. Seeing you drag that obsolete vintage museum box is painful. Make no mistake : I'm poor. But I'm not poor enough to cope with a 2003-era computer. I'm sure that if that box could look at you, it would be like a terminal-cancer patient, begging you to pull the plug. I have a Corsair 8GB RAM kit and a Xigmatek GAIA SD1283 CPU heatsink I can part with. I have a spare 350W Sparkle SPI350ACAG, but I'm not sure if you'd find it too noisy.

Otherwise, there's the Seasonic SSR-360GP, which should be able to keep that oldie running until 2019 or so.

 

[LunarMist]

Yeah, we send you parts to build a new computer. Seeing you drag that obsolete vintage museum box is painful. Make no mistake : I'm poor. But I'm not poor enough to cope with a 2003-era computer. I'm sure that if that box could look at you, it would be like a terminal-cancer patient, begging you to pull the plug. I have a Corsair 8GB RAM kit and a Xigmatek GAIA SD1283 CPU heatsink I can part with. I have a spare 350W Sparkle SPI350ACAG, but I'm not sure if you'd find it too noisy.

Otherwise, there's the Seasonic SSR-360GP, which should be able to keep that oldie running until 2019 or so.

I would not get anything with less than 500GB now.

 

[LunarMist]

I would not get anything with less than 500GB now.

Errr, 500W.

 

[ddrueding]

You don't need 500W+ if you get a good one and have a "normal" workstation. My wife's new box draws 16W at the wall (22 under load).

Coug is right JTR, let that thing die. I'll send you the bits you desire for some more LED goodness.

 

[Mercutio]

If we're taking up a collection to hook jtr with some decent hardware, I'm more than willing to contribute.

And no, normal people do not need 400W PSUs, let alone 500W. Monster PSUs are the reserved domain of people who buy $150+ graphics cards or actually manage fill a mid-tower with hard drives.

 

[Handruin]

I'm willing to contribute something. Put up a config suggestion or a wishlist.

 

[jtr1962]

Here's what I would need here:

1) Decent PSU (I'd rather err on the side of getting higher wattage so it'll last longer running at lower power levels). The Seasonic Coug linked to seems pretty good-quiet, active PFC, Gold Plus Certified.

2) CPU with decent integrated graphics (so far only AMD APUs make the cut ). I don't want to get into graphics cards for now to keep things simple but like the option of being able to add one later should I need more graphics horsepower.

3) Full-size ATX motherboard, preferably with a parallel port, at least 3 PCI slots, USB 3.0, and 6 GB/sec SATA.

4) I already have the RAM ( 16 GB DDR3-PC16000 ).

5) SSD for the boot drive ( my current boot drive is 250 GB and all the partitions are nearly full ) but my boot partition is only 16 GB. I'm probably looking at an SSD in the range of 150 to 300 GB for the boot drive. I just want it large enough for my OS and applications, with some room for future expansion. I can leave my "data" on my 250 GB mechanical drive.

6) I already have a 2 TB drive for more data storage.

7) I already have a decent case which I'm happy with (Lian-Li PC60).

8 ) I already have optical drives and a card reader.

Basically then, I would need help with 1, 2, 3, and especially 5. If any of you guys have spare SSDs which need a good home, it would be much appreciated. As Dave alluded to, I can do LED projects in exchange for anything.

I don't know what I'm doing with regards to an OS at this stage. I can't stress how much I *don't* want to do a fresh install because it took me literally years to finally set up my box how I like it. For now I would run XP and just be limited to ~3GB of RAM. If in the future there's a way to upgrade the OS without reinstalling all my apps I'll do that.

 

[Mercutio]

jtr, OS installs are not a thing you need to be worried about.

 

[jtr1962]

I just realized something looking at some of the specs on new PSUs-few of them have power plugs for PATA devices. That's not a major issue. I suppose I can just splice the plugs onto a new PSU. Both my optical drives and the 250 GB HDD are PATA. I can run all of them off my Promise Card if the new M/B doesn't have PATA ports.

 

[jtr1962]

Merc, so you're saying I can upgrade from XP to, say, Windows 7, without reinstalling all my apps? Or is there another way to do what I want, which is to keep all my apps? Can I run an XP virtual machine which is identical to my current setup from Windows 7?

 

[jtr1962]

BTW, is AMD releasing Trinity in October as planned? If I upgrade, I'd much rather go with Trinity than Llano, if for no other reason than it supposedly uses less power and is faster.

 

[CougTek]

Merc, so you're saying I can upgrade from XP to, say, Windows 7, without reinstalling all my apps? Or is there another way to do what I want, which is to keep all my apps? Can I run an XP virtual machine which is identical to my current setup from Windows 7?

Wait for October 26th and pay 40$ for Windows 8. You'll have to learn it some day anyway.

Regarding AMD's APU, their new generation is coming out soon. Might want to wait for it. I still believe going Intel's Ivy Bridge route would be better though. If the integrated GPU is not enough for you, I don't see what's complicated in adding a dedicated graphic card :

• Remove enclosure side panel
• Insert graphic card in PCI-E slot
• Screw the card in
• Replace enclosure side panel
• Power up computer
• Install drivers

I could teach a six-years-old to do it. Surely, a half-century New Yorker can do it too.

Regarding the motherboard, that wish list looks less likely to materialize than a real Santa Claus or the Tooth Fairy. It's hard enough to still find motherboards with parallel ports and 3 PCI slots, they usually don't get USB 3.0 AND SATA 6Gbps ports too. You'll have to drop a PCI slot and the parallel port.

 

[LunarMist]

Merc, so you're saying I can upgrade from XP to, say, Windows 7, without reinstalling all my apps? Or is there another way to do what I want, which is to keep all my apps? Can I run an XP virtual machine which is identical to my current setup from Windows 7?

No. XP users are screwed as there is no direct upgrade from XP to 7 that retains the applications.

 

[jtr1962]

I'll definitely wait then for the next generation APU then. The A10-5700 looks perfect for me. The rationale for choosing AMD over Ivy Bridge is to get as much graphics horsepower as I can without a dedicated graphics card. I'd rather avoid graphic cards at this stage because it's another failure point (and I totally love the idea of the CPU handling the graphics). The idea is to keep it as simple as possible. I can probably live with 2 PCI slots but the parallel port is a must. I use a microcontroller programmer for my work which uses a parallel port interface, so I absolutely have to have one. Unless of course there's some way of having a USB port and USB-parallel port converter perfectly emulate a parallel port so the microcontroller software thinks it's talking to one (I'm dubious that this is even possible).

 

[jtr1962]

No. XP users are screwed as there is no direct upgrade from XP to 7 that retains the applications.

Well that sucks. Any chance I'll be able to do a direct upgrade with Windows 8 then?

It's stuff like this (and the aforementioned parallel port issue) which has made me keep using a computer which is a museum piece for so long. Doesn't M$ realize that people spend literally years setting things up and don't want to throw it all away everyt time they upgrade the OS?

 

[jtr1962]

Apparently I'm not the only one pissed off that M$ didn't offer a direct upgrade from XP to 7. I'm hoping they fix that oversight with 8.

 

[LunarMist]

Well that sucks. Any chance I'll be able to do a direct upgrade with Windows 8 then?

It's stuff like this (and the aforementioned parallel port issue) which has made me keep using a computer which is a museum piece for so long. Doesn't M$ realize that people spend literally years setting things up and don't want to throw it all away everyt time they upgrade the OS?

If course it sucks, but MS does not care about us old dinosaurs. Ultimately they want users to pay a monthly service fee to access whatever version of the OS and apps are current and keep the data on their outsourced servers in the cloud. If one does not pay every month (or some underpaid goof screws up) then the data is gone and it is tough sh*t. Don't you know that nobody even needs a computer for computing now, just use a tablet or smartphone. The vast majority of people are sheep and will believe and do anything.

 

[jtr1962]

Lunar, if that future comes then I'm moving to Linux. Last thing I need is to store my data remotely and have to depend upon a gazillion things all working right in order to access it. I'll bet I won't be the only one leaving MS for good in that scenario, either. Honestly, I would be happy using XP forever if not for the fact that it's a 32-bit OS. I have Vista on my laptop and tried 7 on a friend's laptop. In all honestly they're not significantly better for me than XP in most respects.

 

[Bozo]

I have upgraded XP to Vista and then to Windows 7. The versions of Vista and Windows 7 must be the same though.
Just make sure you have cleaned up your OS ( like with CCleaner) and defragged first. A chkdsk wouldn't hurt either.

And, don't be in a hurry.

 

[jtr1962]

I have upgraded XP to Vista and then to Windows 7. The versions of Vista and Windows 7 must be the same though.

I'm assuming by that you mean they both need to be either 32-bit or 64-bit?

And, don't be in a hurry.

I never am when I do stuff like that.

Some semi good news here. I reapplied thermal compound to my CPU heatsink and also bent the female pins on the power cable of my power supply so they make better contact. The latter actually seemed to help because I tested my CPU at 100% with CPU Burn-In for 30 minutes without issues. The temps reached 57°F (53°C at idle). After regreasing the heat sink the idle temps dropped by 7 or 8 degrees C. Hopefully that will be enough to prevent premature thermal shutdowns which I think is my problem here (the ASUS C.O.P. was always buggy on this particular MB). Now I just need my desktop to limp along for maybe another month or so before Trinity comes out.

 

[LunarMist]

Why not build a new system with an i5? With a good cooler, MB and PSU it should last for many years.

 

[jtr1962]

Why not build a new system with an i5? With a good cooler, MB and PSU it should last for many years.

Because it would likely cost more than an AMD based system, and the graphics performance might not meet my future needs. Besides that, I like the idea of helping Intel's competitor.

 

[Mercutio]

Upgrading old Windows installs is a tremendously bad idea. I know it's a pain to reinstall applications, but I've noted that XP -> Vista was a particularly buggy change. Upgrade installs are not well tested by Microsoft and because of the sheer number of variables, there's no telling where or how something could break.

There's nothing wrong with XP. Current hardware does still work with it, but I don't know how much longer that will continue to be the case. Windows 7 (and, really, 8 is OK once you're used to it) are both fine as well, and a new computer is a good time to move to a new OS. From an end-user perspective the only big differences between XP and 7 are User Account Control and some renamed/relocated interface elements.

 

[jtr1962]

If the upgrade path is particularly buggy what about having a dual boot setup where I have my current XP install and Windows 8? Is this possible? I'm probably stuck with XP for some applications which might not work well or at all under 8, such as my DOS-based PCB design software. You're right that there's nothing wrong with XP (other than the fact that it's 32-bit). With dual boot I can gradually migrate most of my apps to 8 at my leisure.

My A7N8X-E has been running like a train so far. Hopefully it'll hold out a while longer. In the meantime, I'm ready right now for some of the bits for a new system, such as an SSD and a power supply. When Trinity is out, I'll buy the CPU and an FM2 motherboard.

 

[ddrueding]

I would advise running your current xp environment in a vm on your new machine.

 

[MaxBurn]

Also check into running the PCB software on win 7 or 8, you may be surprised at what compatibility mode can do. Maybe.

 

[jtr1962]

I would advise running your current xp environment in a vm on your new machine.

Sounds good to me. Once I set up my machine I may need some tech support here on how to set up VMs but it sounds like a better solution than dual-booting.

Also check into running the PCB software on win 7 or 8, you may be surprised at what compatibility mode can do. Maybe.

Yes, I will try that first just to see if it works.

 

[Mercutio]

Your DOS-based software may yet run properly. 16-bit Windows apps and programs that depend on a 98/2000/XP driver are the only things that I can absolutely assure you will not work.

Also, I had problems setting up dual boot configurations with 32 and 64 bit versions of Windows, where the boot loader for the 64 bit Win7 would not recognize the 32 bit versions of XP or Vista but 32 bit Win7 one worked just fine.

 

[mubs]

Is there something that will take a current setup of XP and make a VM out of it, and do it well?

 

[MaxBurn]

Likely this can help you.

http://www.vmware.com/products/converter/

I used it a couple times. Need to set the drives to SCSI, don't let them stay at the default or it won't boot. I had a thread on that somewhere.

 

[ddrueding]

Likely this can help you.

http://www.vmware.com/products/converter/

I used it a couple times. Need to set the drives to SCSI, don't let them stay at the default or it won't boot. I had a thread on that somewhere.

That is exactly what I had in mind. Converter + Player should serve your needs for free.

 

[Howell]

I did it with Acronis and Virtualbox.

 

[mubs]

Thanks guys.

 

[jtr1962]

It looks like Trinity is finally in retail channels. This M/B looks pretty close to what I need. If it had a parallel port header and a pair of PATA ports it would be perfect but I can get around those limitations. Since my A7N8X-E is still purring along, I'll wait a few weeks just to see if any issues come up in the reviews.

Now some questions:

1) I'm deciding between the A10-5700 and A10-5800K. Any advantages to one or the other since they look similar on paper other than the TDP of the 5700 being 65 watts versus 100 watts for the 5800K?

2) Any thoughts on this power supply?

3) Any thoughts on which SSDs might be good here?

 

[LunarMist]

For 3, the Intel Cherryvale 520 or Samsung 830 are both very good, fast SSDs that have XP utilities in case you are still thinking about that OS. There a new Samsung 840 coming out as well.

 

[LunarMist]

I did it with Acronis and Virtualbox.

Why is the Fuuley avatator changing?

 

[Mercutio]

Corsair Force GTs and Samsung 830s are kind of my personal go-to options for SSDs right now. I just paid for several Intel 330s, but that's a fleet purchase where I expect the two-day turnaround on RMAs to be more important than anything else.
OCZ Agility (not-super-fast) series SSDs are very reasonably priced and might be tempting if you can put up with shitty OCZ service.

Power supply: That thing is probably massive overkill, but the Seasonic Gold units definitely aren't the same as the Bronzes, which is what I'd probably recommend for a normal enthusiast desktop system. But I suspect this is an area where you appreciate overkill, so knock yourself out.

re: AMD. I don't think anybody else is really buying them right now. The Intel DH61BEB3 has a parallel port and a single PS/2 port if those things are important to you and if you're willing to look at LGA1155, it's an option (Sandy and Ivy Bridge graphics really aren't that bad, either). IDE has all but disappeared; maybe a few boards have an IDE port, but the last couple that I have played with used a weird IDE-via-USB routing that doesn't make them super-compatible with things. For you, considering the length of time you use your systems, the cost of lower TDP is probably more beneficial than a fractional performance improvement.

 

[LunarMist]

Is that AMD CPU more like the i5 or i7?

I would use an add-in card for the IDE if you need that port.