Personal Dilemma

[Chewy509]

Hi Guys,

I've got a bit of a personal dilemma happening with work. Next weekend (21/22 Apr) is the Brisbane marathon which I've entered in the half marathon. I'm personally looking at a sub 1hr:45min time for the half marathon (21.5km).

Now I've been training for the marathon for the last 4 months, and have been looking forward to it for about the same time, and would be heart-breaking if I can't take part.

However the company requires a technician to perform a system installation that weekend, which is located approx 1000km away in Townsville. And there are no technicians available.

My boss has approached me to do the job, on the provision I get triple time for the job, (approx 12hrs worth of work), plus all normal allowances. In the end, I would end up with approx a weeks wage for 2 days work. Downside is, I lose a weekend, an end up working a 12 day fortnight, and miss the half marathon.

I have no respect or loyalty to my boss, but know the company I'll be dealing with in Townsville and are really good people. I don't want them shit-canned because my boss couldn't organise a root in a brothel. My boss has known about the job for over 2 months, and has failed to get things organised. (I swear sometimes the office is run by reaction to crisis, rather than planned work flow).

What would you do? Do what I love, or take the cash.

 

[Buck]

I would take your company and your boss out of the equation. Then ask, will I respect myself more if I run the half-marathon, or help out the customer in Townsville?

 

[Will Rickards]

In my priority list every work problem is less important than anything personal. So I'd say run the marathon. Your weekends are yours.

Is it really that important this gets done on _that_ weekend? What are the consequences for pushing it out a week? Will it make your boss look bad and he should look bad?

 

[Mercutio]

I'd do the job, no question.
You can time yourself running any time you want.

You do the job and you're a stand-up guy for a whole bunch of other people.

 

[LunarMist]

Don't do the job just for money. If it will gain you some important recognition and a promotion later - maybe. If you will suffer as a result of not caving in, start looking for a better job now.

 

[LunarMist]

I'd do the job, no question.
You can time yourself running any time you want.

You do the job and you're a stand-up guy for a whole bunch of other people.

Apparently you have not been f*cked over enough by executive corporate management.

 

[ddrueding]

Apparently you have not been f*cked over enough by executive corporate management.

I work for myself. Therefore I am personally recognized and rewarded for busting my ass. I think this is the best (and least talked about) benefit of self-employment.

 

[udaman]

Hi Guys,

I've got a bit of a personal dilemma happening with work. Next weekend (21/22 Apr) is the Brisbane marathon which I've entered in the half marathon. I'm personally looking at a sub 1hr:45min time for the half marathon (21.5km).

and would be heart-breaking if I can't take part.

However the company requires a technician to perform a system installation that weekend, which is located approx 1000km away in Townsville. And there are no technicians available.

My boss has approached me to do the job, on the provision I get triple time for the job, (approx 12hrs worth of work), plus all normal allowances. In the end, I would end up with approx a weeks wage for 2 days work. Downside is, I lose a weekend, an end up working a 12 day fortnight, and miss the half marathon.

I have no respect or loyalty to my boss, but know the company I'll be dealing with in Townsville and are really good people. I don't want them shit-canned because my boss couldn't organise a root in a brothel. My boss has known about the job for over 2 months, and has failed to get things organised. (I swear sometimes the office is run by reaction to crisis, rather than planned work flow).

What would you do? Do what I love, or take the cash.

You're getting hysterical (about one event of running) like this neurotic woman I know, who went ballistic on me out of seemingly no where, for no logical reason. You can run a marathon anytime...yawn. I'd rather be out in the country doing one of those extreme hikes you like to do, at least you get to view with your eyes what you're doing. Running gets boring after awhile (hmm, me still thinks you should hook up with that neurotic woman who has been giving me grief, as she too used to run 4-5miles a day until she got bored to death of it...now she just loves to eat and shop, being the fashionista she is).

Think of all the things you could do with the money when you do take a vacation. Triple time, can you tell them next time you do a favor for your boss like this you want more paid vacation time instead of pay?

Allowances? Um, so if you do this, will you be able on one of those nights in Townie ville, be able to expense acct a fabulously expensive lavious (wait how do I spell that... lacivious, lecherous...get drunk, groping the females at the bar...err nevermind? ) dinner? Might you also hook up with some bootiewneddnce: on that night? Just thinking of the possibilities, you never know what adventures await in far away places, I'd go for it .

 

[Clocker]

I'd do the job, no question.
You can time yourself running any time you want.

You do the job and you're a stand-up guy for a whole bunch of other people.

AMEN. I would do the job. Marathon's are a race against your mind & yourself, you can do that anytime, anywhere.

 

[Chewy509]

Thanks guys,

I've let my boss know I'll do the job with a few added conditions...

As some of you know, I've been through some shit over the last few years (divorce, internet dating :hurl: , etc), and the half marathon was one of the goals I had set myself nearly 2 years ago (it's one of the goals, part of a few promises I made myself). It would be like a young Jewish male, looking forward to his bar mitzvahs, and then being told nope, he has other responsibilities on that day, and will have to wait 3 months.

Allowances? Um, so if you do this, will you be able on one of those nights in Townie ville, be able to expense acct a fabulously expensive lavious (wait how do I spell that... lacivious, lecherous...get drunk, groping the females at the bar...err nevermind? ) dinner? Might you also hook up with some bootie on that night? Just thinking of the possibilities, you never know what adventures await in far away places, I'd go for it

Well, the allowances covers accommodation, food and car hire, with some left over for :tgif: , but I've got family up there as well, so would be a good time to visit... Just don't think the current girl I'm seeing, would appreciate me getting bootie action from another young lady while I'm away... ;-)

 

[Chewy509]

Twist of fate, my boss has contacted the clients and has changed the job dates... Obviously didn't like the "conditions" I had set on me doing the job...

So now I get to run, and do the job...

 

[e_dawg]

Excellent. Things somehow just work themselves out, don't they?

What were your conditions, btw? (if I may ask... that is, and if you're willing to share)

 

[Fushigi]

Sounds like things are working out. I'd just say that this was the best advice given:

I would take your company and your boss out of the equation. Then ask, will I respect myself more if I run the half-marathon, or help out the customer in Townsville?

BTW I'm just wrapping up working 12 days straight. One day was 14+ hours, another about 19. The rest were 8-10 hours with last Sunday the shortest at about 4. I'm salaried and do not get OT pay.

I could have paced myself and stayed with a normal Monday to Friday, 45ish hour week but the project would have fallen behind. I took it as a challenge to keep up and even get ahead where I could. There are also outside resources on the project (who bill at $250 an hour) so my efforts helped to keep them on track.

In the end I have a high sense of personal satisfaction with my role in the project. And my efforts will not go unnoticed; I have a history of getting higher-than-average raises and earning more than 100% of my target annual bonus.

 

[e_dawg]

Yeah, it really depends on your priorities and sense of commitment to getting the job done no matter what. I will pull an all-nighter for work if it needs to be done. Sometimes it pays off, sometimes it's recognized, sometimes it's not... what matters is that I am comfortable with the decision to make that choice.

Sometimes, people say "why bust your butt for the company? they won't do anything for you." I find that sometimes, these people don't get ahead either because they are known as 9-5 people who won't go the extra mile and complain they don't get their fair share of credit or recognition, etc.

I find that there is personal satisfaction in getting the job done when people are counting on you, and doing it well. I don't expect it will always get noticed or rewarded. It would be nice, but I'm not counting on it.

 

[CougTek]

You can time yourself running any time you want.

It's not the feat that's important, it's the moment.

I wouldn't have sacrificed 4 months of training for two days worth of earnings. I would have felt like a betrayer to myself. It's your boss' responsability to find someone, not yours. Glad you didn't have to let go one or the other.

 

[paugie]

If I had trained hard for a specific day, I, too, would forego the extra work/pay.

One's athletic form peaks depending on the training done. And one can't just go out competing all out and duplicate or surpass any given performance. One day's "all out" and another day's "all out" may differ so much.

 

[time]

Hi Guys,

My boss has approached me to do the job, on the provision I get triple time for the job, (approx 12hrs worth of work), plus all normal allowances. In the end, I would end up with approx a weeks wage for 2 days work.

Australia's new Industrial Relations laws make all of this entirely at the discretion of the employer. Your boss could simply direct you to do it at normal rates - if you declined, he could dock you a day's pay.

At least, this is what I read in a newspaper recently, and it fits with the brouhaha that has accompanied these contentious laws.

 

[Howell]

It's not the feat that's important, it's the moment.

I wouldn't have sacrificed 4 months of training for two days worth of earnings. I would have felt like a betrayer to myself. It's your boss' responsability to find someone, not yours. Glad you didn't have to let go one or the other.

Agreed.

Seriously, what was it that made you "more available" than someone else?

 

[Mercutio]

What makes running with a bunch of people with someone else running a stopwatch more valuable or important than doing it yourself on your own time?

There are certainly things that would cause me to say no to a paycheck, but at the very least, all of them would require a commitment to another person besides myself.

 

[ddrueding]

...all of them would require a commitment to another person besides myself.

Agreed. Though is this because we have perspective, or because we don't feel we are worth the trouble? ;-)

 

[Mercutio]

There's nothing I do for myself that can't be put off or rescheduled. I take satisfaction in work and in the demand others have for my skills and I have structured my life to accommodate that.

 

[LunarMist]

There's nothing I do for myself that can't be put off or rescheduled. I take satisfaction in work and in the demand others have for my skills and I have structured my life to accommodate that.

That demonstrates great reliability and commitment, but by your own admission your personal life is unsatisfactory. Unless you are making enough to retire at a young age, consider a better work/life balance. I'm guessing you never take a long vaction with the SO. Go to Europe or somewhere for a few weeks.

 

[Mercutio]

I do not have an SO nor any hope of getting one.

When I take vacation time from my day job it is only so I can go work more for myself. I usually take my vacation time around Xmas because we don't schedule classes during that time anyway and it is a good time to talk to my personal clients since they are more likely to have baked goods around their offices.

I have less than zero interest in travel; all a "vacation" would be to me is an opportunity to read in a different chair and a long separation from adequate computers and AV equipment.

 

[Handruin]

Call it a vacation or not, but there are some highly visually-appealing sites to see that are not located in your state or town.

 

[Mercutio]

I have never really found much value in those sorts of experiences. I can read or look at pictures just as well. Being someplace "special" has never conveyed any additional sense of majesty or wonder to me, and I can enjoy a tree or a rock or a sunset as well from a window or a JPEG as I can being outside with the mud and the allergens.

 

[Handruin]

Here is your example picture of a special place. You can guess were it is if you'd like, but look at this:

The picture shows one thing, but me telling you I'm standing on the edge of the biggest hole I've ever seen with the wind and smell and temperature all around me, there is no way for me to convey this all to you though your monitor.


One more example. You can guess what and where this is, but as I mentioned above...actually peeking over the massive concrete wall while the warm sun is shining on my back and the sound of massive rushing water while looking down makes you feel a certain way. It's called living...it's those feelings and experiences that make and add value to the life worth living.

This picture in no way accurately describes 4.3 million cubic yards of concrete sitting 730 feet up from bedrock. You have to see it to understand.

 

[Mercutio]

Handy, I'm not seeing anything that makes me want to experience those things. I can look and I can say that those cliffs are pretty. I don't feel anything beyond that. I don't have any desire for additional sensation. They could be CG or they could be a painting or they could be real. Whichever.
If you cared to make additional verbalization, I might know more but I really don't think my level of curiosity would change.

Understand, I like seeing trees and hills and nature just for the interesting visual, but I experience those things through a window at best, and it's not worthwhile to me to experience them in any other way.

 

[Howell]

I like traveling and experiencing things I've never seen before but I'd never go by myself. That is, at the end of the day I'm there for the social interaction new or old.

Finishing the race is a matter of completion. When you set long term goals you kinda like the satisfaction of finishing.

 

[Chewy509]

Australia's new Industrial Relations laws make all of this entirely at the discretion of the employer. Your boss could simply direct you to do it at normal rates - if you declined, he could dock you a day's pay.

At least, this is what I read in a newspaper recently, and it fits with the brouhaha that has accompanied these contentious laws.

There's a lot of depends with these clauses. Companies with LESS than 100 employees, the employees quite frankly are getting shafted by these new laws. I personally wouldn't work for a company with less than 100 employees these days (unless I was a contractor).

Once a company has over 100 employees (like the company I work for), the laws change to be more in line with the old laws, basic award rates/entitlements, conditions which you can be fired, etc. The main difference in my personal case, is the entitlements have changed (actually lessened ) with the introduction of the new laws. Base wage actually got an increase (above CPI) when I switched contracts/AWA, so in the end I'm a little better off.

e_dawg, I won't discuss the conditions, but it was borderline "blackmail".

For anyone outside the land of Oz, recently there was a rather large change in the employment laws in Australia, basically meaning all employees are under a personal contract, rather than an industry set agreement (which the unions worked hard to negotiate over the last few decades). Contracts are negotiated between the employee and employer, and in the case of a lot of smaller businesses, employees were forced onto a new employee contract with lower wage/entitlements or shown the door. While this helped many small business who were unable to meet industry rates keep running/surviving, it shafted a lot of low-mid class families.

 

[LunarMist]

I don't understand the laws there. Are you saying that your IT job is non-exempt, or is there no equivalent to US employment laws? Here scientific/professional jobs are often exempt, though less so than they used to be. I've been exempt for so many decades that I don't think about it much, except when working on Sundays just to catch up on projects in peace.

 

[Chewy509]

I don't understand the laws there. Are you saying that your IT job is non-exempt, or is there no equivalent to US employment laws? Here scientific/professional jobs are often exempt, though less so than they used to be. I've been exempt for so many decades that I don't think about it much, except when working on Sundays just to catch up on projects in peace.

All trades come under the same employment laws now. (No exemptions). Work conditions are now essentially negotiated contracts between the employer and employee ONLY. No other 3rd party, being a Union nor government agency may dictate what is and is not included, except conditions set by the Federal Government as the bare minimum wage/entitlements/conditions/hours for ALL industries.

Previously, Workplace Unions negotiated with the government to establish set minimum standards for employees within a trade/industry. IT unfortunately being a relatively late comer to scene, was lumped under the "Administration Award" as there was no central Union for the IT industry, which basically meant many IT workers could quite legally be paid the same minimum wage as your entry level secretary/receptionist. Why the Administration award, and not the Telecommunications Award (which has a higher minimum wage and entitlements), ask some politician? The truth is, most IT workers were actually compensated appropriately, so the actual allocated Award was never an issue, at least for the IT industry.

** An 'Award' was the minimum wage/entitlements as set by the government for your industry/trade.

 

[Pradeep]

I don't understand the laws there. Are you saying that your IT job is non-exempt, or is there no equivalent to US employment laws? Here scientific/professional jobs are often exempt, though less so than they used to be. I've been exempt for so many decades that I don't think about it much, except when working on Sundays just to catch up on projects in peace.

There isn't a solid piece of legislation like the FLSA in Australia. There is a minimum weekly wage which must be paid, it is indexed each year or so.

Last I remember Aussie workers were guaranteed 6 weeks vacation per year, but I dunno if that has changed. Given that many US companies start workers off with 2 weeks it's a hefty change to get used to.

 

[Chewy509]

There isn't a solid piece of legislation like the FLSA in Australia. There is a minimum weekly wage which must be paid, it is indexed each year or so.

Last I remember Aussie workers were guaranteed 6 weeks vacation per year, but I dunno if that has changed. Given that many US companies start workers off with 2 weeks it's a hefty change to get used to.

20 days annual leave, of which up to 10 days can be cashed in.
8 days sick leave, with medical certificate. Additional sick leave may be taken, but is unpaid.
2 days compassionate leave. (Assist sick family members, funerals, etc).
3 mths annual leave on completion of 10yrs employment. (aka Long Service leave).

Maternity leave is unpaid, however your job is only secure for 6mths.

Only annual leave can be accrued, sick leave is lost if not taken with the year.

Additional leave entitlements may be negotiated as part of your employment contract. eg many miners have up to 8 weeks annual leave due to the hours/conditions.

The ability to 'cash in' annual leave came in as part of the new employment laws recently, and a few companies have (unlawfully) "persuaded" employees to take this option, to reduce the annual leave taken within the company. This has been predicted that this practice will increase burn-out rate, seeing most employees leave the company before 10yrs of service, thus leaving many companies never having to honour Long Service Leave entitlements.

Yes, the new employment laws within Australia suck major ....

 

[Mercutio]

Those terms seem pretty reasonable to me.

I theoretically get 10 vacation days and 3 sick days a year. If I don't use them I don't get paid for them.
That's it. Period.

 

[ddrueding]

I hate entitlement crap like that. I work, I get paid. I don't work, I don't get paid. What is so special after working at a place for 10 years that you get more vacation? What is the conceivable justification? Why aren't such things left to the employee for negotiation?

 

[LunarMist]

I receive 30 days of paid time off each year. That includes vacation and sick days. It is a goodly amount since I rarely miss work due to illness.

 

[Chewy509]

What is so special after working at a place for 10 years that you get more vacation? What is the conceivable justification? Why aren't such things left to the employee for negotiation?

It was originally negotiated by the Unions, as "thank you" for long term service. A left over from the post-WW2 years.

 

[Fushigi]

Wonder if you'll start to see a lot of layoffs/firings at the 9 year 11 month mark.

The 3 month leave sounds just like a sabbatical. My employer doesn't offer them but a friend of mine gets one (5 weeks IIRC) every 5 or 6 years.

I currently get 23 days a year (vacation + sick + personal days). That'll go up to 28 when I hit 10 years. I've got more than 8 years here so far so that goal is within reach.

 

[ddrueding]

I took a 3 moth vacation once. It was easy. I quit my job, went to Asia, screwed around, came back, and got another job.

 

[Pradeep]

I hate entitlement crap like that. I work, I get paid. I don't work, I don't get paid. What is so special after working at a place for 10 years that you get more vacation? What is the conceivable justification? Why aren't such things left to the employee for negotiation?

It encourages employee retention. It makes sense to reward those who are loyal to the company. Plus once you are accruing say 30 days of vac per year, it's not very tempting to take another job that may only offer 10 or 15.

You are coming from the contractor point of view, where benefits are paid for totally out of your pocket (and hopefully your hourly rate takes that cost into account).