Review of new Toyota Prius

[Pradeep]

Once I get my Social Security number (hopefully within the next week or two, but the woman at the counter said up to 10 weeks!), I will have to go get my New York drivers license. I originally thought it was a matter of taking the written test and then handing in your other license (in this case Australian). Certainly that is the case if you had an NY license and wanted to get an Australian one. But that only works in NY if you have a Canadian or other US state license. In my case I have to do the whole f$$$$$ thing. 5 hour safety course. Written test. Road test. It just blows the mind. The most annoying thing for me is the safety course. This is the test that 15-16 year old kids do for drivers ed. I've had a drivers license for close to ten years now. Haven't killed anyone. And the crazy thing is, if I fail my road test, I just drop the examiner back at the DMV and drive home anyway on my Aussie license! Crazy. When I pass the road test I hand in the Aus one and they give me the NY one.

 

[mubs]

A family I know (that lived in Texas) moved to London (guy's company offered him the top post there). I understand the DL tests are extremely stringent there; you fail for the most (what we could consider) innocuous reasons. After a couple of years of using their American licenses, time is running out; they need to get the British one. After failing twice, here's what the gal did. She visitied visited relatives in Canada, and exchanged her Texas licence for a Canadian one. Then she went back to London and exchanged her Canadian for the British. No tests! The USA and Canada have an understanding; and Canada and Britain also have an understanding (Commonwealth). She was able to do this because her parents live in Canada, and she gave some cock-and-bull story about needing to take care of them. The guy was going to try his luck again over in Britain.

Poor Pradeep. Consider your experience part of becoming an American!

 

[e_dawg]

LOL... In the US, you have a god given right to carry firearms, but good luck getting a US drivers license if you already know how to drive!

 

[Fushigi]

I like that idea. jtr has a point about the shock hazzard though.

That's what the center control channel is for. It communicates with the mat through some serial protocol or other (identifying the vehicle for billing, providing the charging rates the car can handle, etc.) and activates the current. If you make the mat pressue-sensitive as well and make it into an array of pos/neg cels where each cel is about the same size as the probe tips (say a couple of square inches), you could even control the current to the cel level, insuring it only gets to the 2 probes. No shock hazard.

 

[jtr1962]

I like that idea. jtr has a point about the shock hazzard though.

That's what the center control channel is for. It communicates with the mat through some serial protocol or other (identifying the vehicle for billing, providing the charging rates the car can handle, etc.) and activates the current. If you make the mat pressue-sensitive as well and make it into an array of pos/neg cels where each cel is about the same size as the probe tips (say a couple of square inches), you could even control the current to the cel level, insuring it only gets to the 2 probes. No shock hazard.

In that case you would need two conductors for the comm channel(even a serial channel still requires ground for reference, and using the charging ground is prone to interference), or some form of wireless communication. Other than that nitpicking on my part, your idea is feasible. I guess you could even have different charge rates set via the center probe, with the lower ones being billed at slightly less per KW-hr(because ohmic losses are less with a lower current). Of course, Murphy's law being what it is, one of these will malfunction eventually just when someone happens to be walking near it on a rainy day, trips, and falls squarely on top of the two smallest main conductors. The way around that will be to put those about ten feet apart-no person can touch both at the same time but few if any cars are shorter than ten feet.

 

[jtr1962]

Anybody think I should start writing to newspapers and lawmakers regarding this whole idea?

No matter what, no matter how your idea is perceived, patent them first before you do anything else. I'm serious. I've had several ideas I did nothing about, and they've come to market. I could have been velly velly lich by now if I hadn't been (and continue to be) such a sloth.

I've had patentable ideas as well, including one device I've made several working models of. In that case, I actually paid $5K to one of those invention places to market the idea and got nowhere with it. Nobody has come out with one yet, but I won't produce it myself until I get it patented. As I refuse to pay lawyers the $20K or so they would want for that, that means learning how to patent it myself for the few hundred in filing fees.

Regarding my electric car idea, I'm not sure if anything is patentable. The concept is similar to electric railways, and the idea of picking up power inductively on the fly is nothing new either-that's what maglevs do. Maybe applying the whole concept to roadways is but I'm not a patent expert. Truth is I'd be happy if this idea were adopted even if I didn't make a dime off it. I'm just sick of smelling cars, trucks, and buses. Chances are I could make money on the interview/lecture circuit anyway pushing the idea, even if no patents are involved. Something like this is sure to spark controversy. I'm sure the oil companies will be bitching like crazy, especially in light of the fact that modifying any car to work off the system will be quite feasible(i.e. take out gas engine/transmission, bolt electric motor to transaxle, add inductive pickup, battery, and control electronics-voila, you have a ZEV). Just seeing all the oil companies closing shop will be worth it for me.

Anyway, keep thinking of new ideas. Sooner or later you and I are bound to hit on something that makes each of us very well off. Granted, money in and of itself does very little for me personally, but I like the security a lot of it would provide as well as not having to worry about earning a living. Having more funds to bankroll my hobbies would be nice as well. Other than those few uses, I'm not sure what I would do with a lot of money. I tend to think having too much money is as bad as too little. Just look at how dysfunctional all those rich celebrities are.

 

[Fushigi]

I can't for the life of me see why somebody who lives and drives in NYC would need a range of more than 100 miles, which is quite feasible with an electric car.

Chicagoland, of course, but if I go from my house to our downtown office, that's an 88 mile round trip. Not much room for error if the batteries aren't at 100% (not only charge but general condition). My house is hardly the farthest out from downtown. My current commute to my normal office, BTW, is about 1/2 that: I do the downtown gig about once a month.

I should use mass transit for that trip? Drive 6 miles to the closest train station, try to find a parking space (many stations have a 3+ year waiting list for a parking space), pay to park, buy the train ticket, wait for the train, take the train downtown (hopefully an express), wait for a taxi, pay for the ride from the downtown station to the office and reverse the whole thing in the afternoon. Door to door in the morning in my car is about 56 minutes but no less than 70 on the train (if an express; add another 20 minutes if not). In the afternoon it's about equal. The train is also several $ more expensive once you add in all of the segment & parking costs.

Think of this for hybrids: As I've said before, they're bridging the gap between now and the future. Say the embedded power structure starts getting implemented. It will take 30+ years to do as every single mile of highway infrastructure will have to be redone (costing trillions of $, BTW). Hybrids should be insanely easy to adapt to the new infrastructure. They would use the power lines as a power source but have the ability to switch to the small gas engines in areas where the infrastrucutre has not yet been extended. Replace the gas engine with a small, clean burning turbodiesel and that 50-55MPG should go well into the 60s or 70s. Or use LP or any other fuel source for the engine. All of that without the consumer having to make any serious sacrifices with regard to safety, comfort, performance, etc. Since hybrids are by nature drive-by-wire, the automated driving lanes can also be phased in on hybrids.

Really, until we have a revolution in vehicular power systems or in personal transporation methods. hybrids address a lot of current issues while helping lay the foundation for future transportation technologies.

 

[Buck]

LOL... In the US, you have a god given right to carry firearms, but good luck getting a US drivers license if you already know how to drive!

Come to California, we give everyone a license to drive, especially if you are illegal in this country.

 

[mubs]

jtr, I agree with you on the money issue. I've never wanted to be super rich; just have enough to pay the bills, have decent housing, transportation, health care and educate my one kid well so that she can do likewise. Having a decent pot will take the worry off tomorrow, and let dreamers like us dream instead of putting our noses to the grindstone. My model is Edison; apparently he spent most of his time sitting in the garage in a semi-meditative/trance state, at which times he got much of the inspiration that later became reality. But unfortunately, as I get older, and especially with my life being very rocky these last 13 years, most of the neurons in my brain seem to have shutdown. I'm no longer as creative as I used to be.

I also agree with Fushigi completely; incremental change has a better chance of success than wholesale replacement of infrastructure for something as big as you're discussing (electrified roadways).

 

[Howell]

Additionally, hybrids provide the manufacturers with engineering prototypes and can build off them.

 

[jtr1962]

I suppose incremental change is better than none, although I still think there is some truth to the statement that a revolution every now and then is a healthy thing. I think the world of transportation is seriously in need of a revolution after essentially stagnating for 30+ years. Consider that during that time trains are the only thing that have gotten faster and more energy efficient. Cars have stagnated speed-wise(not top speeds, but average speeds in use), and have taken a step backwards in fuel efficiency with SUVs. Sure, I'll welcome hybrids as a halfway house provided they are coupled with efficient body styles and the idea to electrify the roads moves ahead as fast as possible. However, coupling hybrids with an inefficiently-shaped body makes little sense even though it may improve fuel economy in the city. Just ditch SUVs, crossovers, etc, and their boxy bodies. They just can't be efficient unless we can invent an invisible force field that gives them a streamlined shape when in motion(I think it's a safe bet that won't happen).

The electrified highway concept seems the best bet to take advantage of fusion once it's commercialized as well. You can use fusion power to make hydrogen fuel for fuel cells, but it costs more to distribute liquid fuel at -450°F than to distribute electricity. Furthermore, you avoid the hazards of carrying around what amounts to a small bomb in every vehicle(another sore point I have with fossil fuels).

I should use mass transit for that trip?

I don't expect anyone to use mass transit if it takes longer and costs more than driving. However, blame that on public policy. Most mass transit failures in this country stem from building a new line without adding the necessary feeder services to make using the line seamless. There should be more parking(vertical if necessary) where cars are the only feasible means of getting to stations. There should be connecting subway or bus lines at inner city stops to get you to within a few blocks of where you want to go. Studies have shown most people will take mass transit if it costs the same or less than driving and takes no more than 15 minutes extra. They will also take it if it costs more, provided it is faster. If it is both faster and cheaper, as in NYC, lots of people will use it(so many that we are in dire need of new lines, especially in the outer boroughs). Most importantly, schedules need to be reliable or taking mass transit is the same kind of crapshoot as driving on traffic-clogged roads.

BTW, have you ever considered biking to/from the station, provided you can take your bike on the train? That would at least cut the cost to just the train fare. I see cycling as an overlooked alternative in this country, especially when people only need to go a few miles.

 

[DrunkenBastard]

Cycling in the snow?

 

[DrunkenBastard]

Japan's super-fast Maglev has set a new speed record for magnetically levitated trains, reaching 560 kilometres an hour during unmanned testing.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/s991589.htm

What happens if the power fails to the track? Does the train keep floating and just not move forward? I guess it must, otherwise there's going to be an awful noise :mrgrn:

 

[Buck]

Ha! Forget the electricity. What will happen if some hapless deer strides in front of that high-speed monster? Can birds get out of the way quick enough when that deadly magnet arrives? Would you really want to be in the nose, looking out of the front windshield, at that high of a speed? Inquiring minds want to know.

 

[Bartender]

You've been watching to much channel 4.

 

[jtr1962]

Japan's super-fast Maglev has set a new speed record for magnetically levitated trains, reaching 560 kilometres an hour during unmanned testing.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/s991589.htm

What happens if the power fails to the track? Does the train keep floating and just not move forward? I guess it must, otherwise there's going to be an awful noise :mrgrn:

560 kph=348 mph=mach 0.458

I think the train has enough power stored on board to allow it to levitate long enough to come to a stop. The best maglev designs only require ~3W per ton of weight to levitate. For an average maglev this is not much more power than a PC takes. An onboard battery can supply that for quite some time.

I'm personally a little skeptical of maglevs ever being used in commercial long-distance service on open-air tracks. The problem is that they don't offer significant advantages over existing high-speed conventional rail unless they are run in evacuated tubes(that also eliminates any problems with running into birds, deer, people). I've heard running in open air 300 mph commercial speeds are feasible(maybe). Existing high-speed rail will ramp up to 225 mph in the not too distant future, and probably top out at 250 mph. Speeds of 321 mph(517 kph) have already been reached in tests, thus showing that maglev isn't a whole lot faster. It's simply not economic to run maglevs faster than 300 mph in the open air due to noise and energy considerations, so they have at most a 50 mph speed advantage over rail. They also can't continue on existing tracks at lower speeds the way conventional high-speed trains can, putting them at a distinct disadvantage. Bottom line-if anyone is really serious about commercializing maglev, think in terms of either commuter routes where the maglev's higher acceleration brings large travel time advantages, or long-distance routes in evacuated tubes where a maglev can reach supersonic or even hypersonic speeds while using less energy than even low-speed trains(i.e. kinetic energy is recovered when braking). The latter method can have the tubes under water and across oceans, potentially replacing airliners by offering far faster trips while consuming far less energy. No sonic booms, either, since there's no air in the tube.

 

[DrunkenBastard]

http://travel.howstuffworks.com/maglev-train2.htm

Google to the rescue. The Jap trains have rubber wheels for >100kph, and the Germans have batteries on board. Dear god 10-30 million dollas per mile!

 

[DrunkenBastard]

<100kph I really should use the preview.

 

[e_dawg]

Just an FYI for you fuel economy conscious consumers out there...

The 2004 Jetta TDI PD has a new high pressure common rail type injection system that increases power and torque by 11% and 14%, respectively while retaining the same fuel economy. That means a whopping 177 lb-ft of torque and 50/64 mpg city/highway. While the Prius has that cool leading edge hybrid technology cachet, this Jetta TDI PD has my vote as the car to get as an economical car. It's sportier, better equipped, more luxurious, and classier. With the Prius, you will have to deal with the spectre of horrible resale value if you decide to sell it after 5 years or so; conversely, if you decide to keep it, you will get stuck with a $5,000 bill if the NiMH battery pack dies in your 9th year of ownership (battery is warrantied for 8 years).

Review ici: http://www.canadiandriver.com/articles/rr/04jettatdi.htm

 

[e_dawg]

The 2004 Jetta TDI PD has a new high pressure common rail type injection system

Whoops. I got that bass ackwards. Actually, the common rail system was the old version. The new PD system has individual injectors.

 

[CougTek]

Jetta TDI PD has my vote as the car to get as an economical car. It's sportier, better equipped, more luxurious, and classier.

Yep and it will most likely fail way before the Toyota too. Volks have one of the worst reliability track record of the industry and by the ninth year you'll have it, chances are it will have cost you way more than a Prius battery (German cars' parts aren't cheap).

It is an interesting car nonetheless. If only Volks could stop making their cars in Mexico and sell something that doesn't compete with Lada on the reliability side, I would be very interested.

 

[Fushigi]

Combine the two. If VW would come out with a hybrid of the TDI, it'd get, what, 90MPG...

 

[e_dawg]

Coug, you're exaggerating... VW is not quite as good as Toyota and Honda when it comes to reliability, but it isn't nearly as bad as you think it is. Lada quality? Made in Mexico = crap? A robot is a robot no matter what country it is working in. Same with a press. Volkswagen AG designs the processes and promulgates them to the Mexican, Brazilian, and Chinese plants to follow.

Their Puebla, Mexico plant is very modern and makes extensive use of robotics and automation. What did you think? There's a bunch of Mexicans stumbling around on the floor sauced on Corona and tequila? VW Mexico has some of the tightest and most precise panel gaps due to their laser welding techniques. The manufacturing processes for the A4 bodies are 96% automated.

Yes, VW had a bad two years with several known component failures, but it's not directly their fault. BAE supplies the tempermental coil packs and Bosch supplies the delicate Mass Airflow sensors. They have since
addressed the main reliability problems with their current Golf/Jetta "A4" platform cars (coil packs, MAF sensors, and window regulators/brackets), and they have the best warranty in their class -- 4 years B2B, 5 yr powertrain, 12 yr corrosion, and 2 yr roadside assistance.

This article has more information on the subject:

http://www.canadiandriver.com/articles/jc/99-03golf.htm

Yes, it will cost you a bit more (and no, NOT $5,000 more) to keep the VW running, but it's worth it in terms of the satisfaction you will get from owning and driving one. The style, luxury, sophistication, class, driving dynamics... VW leads the compact class in all those areas. It's 90% as good as a BMW for 60% of the price.

As reliable as Toyotas are, they are boring transportation appliances. They are for soccer moms. They have no soul, no character... they don't speak to your emotions. You're a young single guy, aren't you Coug? You deserve better... VW owners love their cars. Own one and you will know.

 

[CougTek]

You're a young single guy, aren't you Coug? You deserve better... VW owners love their cars. Own one and you will know.

Young, I would like to believe I still am, but my hair tells me another story. And I've learned through the years that owning a car with a tempting handling is a threat for your wallet. I prefer to have a calm vehicule which will temper my speeding temptations. Anyway, a VW isn't any funnier to drive in a traffic jam than a Toyota and since I'll probably return to Montréal soon...

 

[Howell]

VW owners love their cars.

So ... it's a car only a VW owner would love? j/k Are these the same people who think their wife is beautiful and their kids are smart? Again, j/k. This actually looks like a good compromise the WRX I want and the Prius I really should get.

 

[e_dawg]

I prefer to have a calm vehicule which will temper my speeding temptations.

You? Needing calm things to temper your aggression or speeding habits? Shocking. Absolutely shocking... :mrgrn:

Anyway, a VW isn't any funnier to drive in a traffic jam than a Toyota and since I'll probably return to Montréal soon...

Good luck. Aren't they planning to shut down the city for a few months like their French counterparts did in Paris?

 

[Buck]

I sat inside the 2004 Prius at the LA Auto Show - neat little car. The styling leaves quite a bit to be desired, but the combination of the technology and fuel efficiency makes it very attractive. Not to mention the reasonable cost and amount of comfort. Not its not like the inside of an Avalon, but it is still nice.

 

[CougTek]

But I've learned that since the car is very light, especially above the front wheels, it doesn't have a good handling in snow and nordic road conditions like we have here, so I'll skip this one once again.

I went to Montréal's Salon de l'Auto and the car that impressed me the most, when considering price/value, quality of construction and fuel efficiency was...yep, the good ol' Honda Accord. I originally planned to have leather seats for my next car, but the basic seat covering of the Accord is quite acceptable. It's less fuel-hungry than a Cavalier when equipped with the 4-cylinders, is relatively affordable and it doesn't feel like a small car when you're behind the wheel (unlike the Corolla, Echo, Civic, Mazda 3, Focus, etc). However, although the leg space for rear passengers is above average, it still doesn't have as much as the surprising Corolla. But, oh well, I rarely drive from the rear seat anyway, so... And the trunk is very large, with a wide opening, so carrying large packages (computer enclosures, for instance) shouldn't be an issue.

 

[Buck]

A review of the new Mercedes Benz E-Class Diesel (two turbos).

 

[e_dawg]

OMG, that is a ridiculous amount of torque! ... and in the rpm range where you need it, too (1500-4000 rpm). Drool...

 

[Buck]

Interesting feature in the fuel injection system:

"A particular feature of the Mercedes-Benz CDI engines is what is known as pilot injection. Here, too, in the eight-cylinder units, this leads to an audible reduction in combustion noise. Just a few milliseconds before the actual fuel injection, a small quantity of diesel is allowed to flow into the cylinder, where it ignites, thus pre-warming the combustion chambers. This improves conditions for the main injection process that follows: the fuel ignites sooner, while combustion chamber pressure, temperature and thus also combustion noise are kept at a low level."

 

[e_dawg]

Now if they could only get rid of that diesel clatter... (would the reduction in combustion noise speak to this issue?)

 

[Buck]

Now if they could only get rid of that diesel clatter... (would the reduction in combustion noise speak to this issue?)

Yes.

 

[e_dawg]

Exxxcellent...

 

[Bartender]

Exxxcellent...

From what I've heard doggie one, this noise reduction process has been pursued for the past few decades. These days, Diesel engines are extremely quiet and clatter free compared to their decade old brethren. Albeit, there is still a faint difference between a Diesel engine at idle versus one drinking gasoline - but improvements have definitely been made.

 

[jtr1962]

Speaking of noise, how come electronic noise cancellation has never been used on cars and especially airplanes? This was supposed to be the next big thing in the late 1980s. You could make a car the produces virtually no noise at all as you could cancel engine, wind, and tire noise. It would be kind of eerie and cool seeing a vehicle drive down the road not making a sound.

 

[Bartender]

Speaking of noise, how come electronic noise cancellation has never been used on cars and especially airplanes? This was supposed to be the next big thing in the late 1980s. You could make a car the produces virtually no noise at all as you could cancel engine, wind, and tire noise. It would be kind of eerie and cool seeing a vehicle drive down the road not making a sound.

I wonder how that would impact (no pun intended) the pedestrian world.

 

[Handruin]

Before I even read your reply, bartender, I was thinking the exact same thing. I would suspect more accidents would occur because a person is at least subconsciously listening and the noise would no longer exist.

I'm not always paying attention to the sound of a car, but I know when one is close by. At least that's how I interpret it.