S939 is dead, long live S940 (Mk. II)

[LiamC]

Just in case you've been living under a rock, AMD released Socket AM2 Athlon FX/64/Sempron 64s using DDR2.

My cheat sheet.
* DDR2 is only faster than DDR400 when you get to DDR2-800 and use ultra low latency DDR2 800.
* The caveat to this appears to be video encoding/latest games (read huge textures and levels)
* AM2 appears to be a little cheaper
* Semprons are on the same socket as the AFX64 (Yay! says Tony)
* AM2's (rev F.) seem to run even cooler than Rev E.
* Intel showcased it's Merom/Woodcrest procs that will be released in the next few months, and AMD seems to have a performance problem—these are going to be monsters.
* A number of sources have indicated that AMD has something up it's sleeve until K8L is released next year. Sources indicate that that AMD will release details of this around the release date of Conroe (June 6th). I'm betting on a triple core/four core K8. Any other guesses?


Linkies:
AM2
http://www.techreport.com/reviews/2006q2/am2-chipsets/index.x?pg=1
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu/display/amd-socket-am2.html
http://www.lostcircuits.com/cpu/amd_am2
http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2762

Woodcrest--server version of Conroe
http://www.techreport.com/etc/2006q2/woodcrest/index.x?pg=1
http://www.realworldtech.com/page.cfm?ArticleID=RWT052306090721

CoreDuo on the desktop. Conroe is supposed to be even faster.
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu/display/core-duo-overclocking.html

 

[LiamC]

Oh yeah. S940 (AM2) is not pin compatible with the older Opteron/FX S940 (Mk. I)

 

[LiamC]

Also, SAM2 uses 4 mounting holes rather than two, so S939 coolers may not fit .

For how Sempron AM2 compares to S754 Sempron, check this out.
For Office apps, S754 wins, for multimedia & most games, the new Semprons win


http://hkepc.com/hwdb/am2sempron-1.htm

 

[LiamC]

Seems that AMD's answer to the Intel inventory slash & burn (which they have to do to clear the channel of P4's—no one wants them) is this:

http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=32304

Distributor prices seen by the INQ show that the Athlon 64 3000 will cost $89, the 3200 $99, the 3500 $109, and the 3800 $139.

 

[ddrueding]

yay. The day after I buy some 4000+

 

[LiamC]

Don't mean to rain on your parade but...

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000087&sid=a9bSLIkNBj4M

Intel Tells Customers It Will Cut Prices by 60% to Gain Share

 

[Santilli]

I'm waiting for dual cores to go on sale, for the gaming machine. With the advent of dual core aware games, it really helps...

Greg

 

[Pradeep]

I don't think AMD have anything up their sleeve, until K8L comes out. The switch to DDR2 has delivered almost nothing. They are going to have to maintain share by cutting prices.

 

[ddrueding]

So, I've sold my nice computer and will be using one of the "cheap" boxes mentioned in another thread until I build another for myself. What should I be waiting for? K8L looks neat, but that's not until next year, right? This new Intel thing? I haven't run an Intel proc since my dual Celerons OC'd to 550Mhz.

 

[time]

The switch to DDR2 has delivered almost nothing.

I may be off-base here, but my understanding is that AMD stands to gain far more from drops in RAM latency, given the low inherent latency of their on-die controller. Dramatic drops in latency of high speed DDR2 may not be all that far away: http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=32267

 

[Handruin]

So, I've sold my nice computer and will be using one of the "cheap" boxes mentioned in another thread until I build another for myself. What should I be waiting for? K8L looks neat, but that's not until next year, right? This new Intel thing? I haven't run an Intel proc since my dual Celerons OC'd to 550Mhz.

The new Intel Conroe (AKA Core 2 Duo) seems to be a decent chip from all I'v read. I'm still not convinced enough to go back to Intel, but I'm happy to see competition working between the two chip makers.

 

[paugie]

So, I've sold my nice computer and will be using one of the "cheap" boxes mentioned in another thread

So how much difference in the "feel" between the NICE box and the CHEAP box?

 

[ddrueding]

So, I've sold my nice computer and will be using one of the "cheap" boxes mentioned in another thread

So how much difference in the "feel" between the NICE box and the CHEAP box?

Dunno yet, I'll do a side-by-side comparison when I get the new boxes on Tuesday.

 

[Mercutio]

I can answer that:
If you aren't gaming, and you aren't video editing, and you have a decent amount of RAM (1GB), there's almost no practical difference between a "low-end" Sempron 3000 and a high end X2/4600. Apps open just as instantly.
The only places to notice differences are things like opening big directories full of thumbnailed images. In terms of day-to-day stuff, that's going to be about it. We're at a point right now when almost everything is either bound by Network Connection or available RAM or the speed of your hard disk. CPU rarely enters the equation.
My day-to-day PCs are mostly A64/3000s, A64/3400s or 3500s, and a couple X2s. There's very little difference between any of them.

Er, not that I'm not looking forward to $125 single-core A64/3800s.

 

[Pradeep]

http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=2800

"According to memos recently obtained by DailyTech, AMD will drastically cut prices on its desktop processors after the July 23rd release of Intel’s Core 2 Duo Conroe processors. The memos that DailyTech has secured are between AMD and Japanese system manufacturers and indicate the following price cuts will become effective July 24th, 2006:

AMD Athlon 64 price cuts will receive price cut up to 30%
AMD Athlon 64 X2 will receive price cuts up to 50%
AMD Sempron processors will receive price cuts up to 15%"

 

[ddrueding]

AMD Athlon 64 X2 will receive price cuts up to 50%

So that would be an X2 3800+ for $150? I may have just ordered my last single-core processor.

 

[P5-133XL]

It was always my understanding that the justification for the high prices of x2 processors has been a capacity issues: AMD could sell all they could make at those prices. If that assumption was true, AMD must be expecting an immediate massive demand drop from the Conroe to justify that amount of price drop otherwise there will be supply problems.

Under that assmumption, the price drops don't make sense to me: They are too drastic. Even in the best of circumstances, of a price war, it will be months, after the official release, before Conroe will be readily available for general use. Further, peoples buying habits won't switch on a dime: It took years for the x64 processor to gain its market share and it will take a while for it to erode too.

I'm sorry, but I don't think a price war is in the best interests of anyone other than Intel. Intel, has the resources to outlast AMD. So, AMD, as a company, could be crippled by it if it lasts and that will diminish competition, in the long run. This is not a boon for the consumer that all the comentators are all yacking about. In the long run, It is much better, for the consumer, if both companies are successful as long as they aren't conspiring over prices....

 

[Bozo]

I don't see the point of jumping on the dual core band wagon. Both the operating system and the program or applicayion must be coded to take advantage of dual cores.
Are there reaslly that many programs that can take advantage of dual core, or is this more marketing nonsence?

Bozo :mrgrn:

 

[sechs]

Under that assmumption, the price drops don't make sense to me: They are too drastic. Even in the best of circumstances, of a price war, it will be months, after the official release, before Conroe will be readily available for general use. Further, peoples buying habits won't switch on a dime: It took years for the x64 processor to gain its market share and it will take a while for it to erode too.

It's about market share. If someone buys an AMD chip, they're not likely to turn around and buy another computer in the next few months, let alone with an Intel chip.

If a person can get a comparable AMD-based computer for less, they're more likely to get it. If they can get that computer now, but have to wait for the Intel-based computer, they're even more likely to get it. Once the sale is dialed-in, Intel is out of luck.

This obviously isn't a long-term strategy, but you cannot let your only competitor to put out a nice chip for less.

 

[ddrueding]

I don't see the point of jumping on the dual core band wagon. Both the operating system and the program or applicayion must be coded to take advantage of dual cores.
Are there reaslly that many programs that can take advantage of dual core, or is this more marketing nonsence?

Bozo :mrgrn:

The OS does need to be coded for it, but since we all use XP/2003 (the sensible ones, anyway), and both support dual-core, than that's taken care of.

Re: Apps. You don't need an app that supports dual-processors (multi-threaded), you just need 2 or more threads. That could be 2 games of solitaire; or more likely an AV/anti-spam app and your e-mail client, or Winamp and Firefox, or whatever. There are many uses.

 

[sechs]

I don't see the point of jumping on the dual core band wagon. Both the operating system and the program or applicayion must be coded to take advantage of dual cores.
Are there reaslly that many programs that can take advantage of dual core, or is this more marketing nonsence?

Having used an SMP system for the last few years, I can tell you that this is not baloney.

It's a question, however, of multitasking the many existing single-threaded and non-SMP applications. I'd say this is not a situation that a lot of business and e-mail/web users find themselves; but anyone who does two or more things at once, one of which may pull on the processor, the system performs better. It's definitely far more responsive.

The trade-off, of course, is clock speed. I'd argue that, at this point in time, that raw power isn't as useful as it once was. For the last week or so, I've been running two processors that are each 400MHz faster than the old, and the only way I can tell the difference is by looking at how fast SETI@Home runs. Of course, if I had a single processor, it would probably be more obvious, but that just shows the advantage of two cores.

I would also worry about a single single-core processor having a shorter half-life than dual-core.

 

[CougTek]

AMD Athlon 64 X2 will receive price cuts up to 50%

So that would be an X2 3800+ for $150? I may have just ordered my last single-core processor.

Done for me. Today, my price for the X2 3800 on AM2 socket were axed in two. From 315$ to ~155$CAN. We'll finally start to sell AM2 platforms AND X2 Athlon 64. So the bottom line is that last week, we sold Athlon 64 3000+ systems for just 40$ less than we can sell X2 3800+ systems today. Quite a speed bump in a small time frame.

 

[mubs]

As usual I got fingered. Prices cut weeks after I build a new m/c. Grrrrrrr.

 

[Mercutio]

I feel your pain mubs. I just finished a computer-building class for 12 people. Every one of them bought an Athlon64/3000 or 3200 of some sort. The price cuts hit yesterday and my students were about to hang me over the drops.

Also, in a different thread, around a month ago, I mentioned that AMD's logical response to Intel's next generation chips would be price cuts. I am glad to see that my prognosticative powers are as accurate as I think they should be.

Me? I'm looking at those $150 single-core 3800s with a certain amount of lust. I may be the only one, but since most of my systems are on Via motherboards, I can't be 100% certain that Dual core will work properly on all of them.

 

[ddrueding]

I would feel a lot worse if the price drops had hit already, but Newegg hasn't dropped their prices yet; and I got that 4000+ up to 3.2Ghz .

 

[CougTek]

False alarm. The price monkey at my main processor distro made a mistake. I've searched for good AM2 boards all this morning for nothing. At least I learned that PC2-5400 RAM were not that much more expensive than PC2-4200. There's no way I'm going to sell PC2-4200 with AM2 boards. It's makes the Athlon 64 slower than if it runs with budget PC3200 on a socket 939.

 

[Mercutio]

Foxconn case
A64/3800
2GB RAM
nvidia 6150 or ATI R200-based motherboard
250GB Samsung HDD
16x NEC DVD Burner

$550, shipped from Newegg.
That's pretty much insane.

 

[CougTek]

We currently offer pretty much the same system as the one you wrote above, except with 1Go of RAM, for 589$CAN. Yes, that's an insane deal. Even though it is supposed to be a dead season for computer sales, we have been quite busy building new systems for customers this week because of the price drop on the A64 3800+.

 

[Mercutio]

Rumored new tech in AM2 chips to compete with Conroe.

 

[CityK]

Rumored new tech in AM2 chips to compete with Conroe.

However, Intel May Offer Single-Threading Optimizations.

 

[LiamC]

AMD preps Sempron X2

http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/cpu/display/20060627152959.html

Well they are calling it an Athlon X2 3600+, but...